Guest guest Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 shrii kR^iShNa janmaaShTami ki jaya! I had some doubts about some verses I was reading from 10th Canto regarding the transcendental appearance of Lord Krishna. It concerns Krishna as svayam bhagavaan and His other forms as amshas (plenary expansions of Himself). Admittedly, this is somewhat of an esoteric subject matter, but since we devotees preach it so publicly, it is only reasonable that we know the basis for it in case someone objects. If memory serves, some of these verses from 10th Canto are used by Srila Jiva Gosvami in Shri Krishna Sandarbha to support the idea that Krishna is svayam bhagavaan. But reading the Sanskrit, I wasn't so sure that their meaning as we understood them was so obvious. Here are the relevant verses. athaahama.mshabhaagena devakyaaH putrataa.m shubhe | praapsyaami tva.m yashodaayaa.m nandapatnyaa.m bhaviShyasi || bhaa 10.2.9 || O all-auspicious Yogamaayaa, I shall then appear with My full six opulences as the son of Devakii, and you will appear as the daughter of mother Yashodaa, the queen of Mahaaraaja Nanda. (bhaagavata puraaNa 10.2.9) bhagavaanapi vishvaatmaa bhaktaanaamabhaya.nkaraH | aaviveshaa.mshabhaagena mana aanakadundubheH || bhaa 10.2.16 || Thus the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is the Supersoul of all living entities and who vanquishes all the fear of His devotees, entered the mind of Vasudeva in full opulence. (bhaagavata puraana 10.2.16) tato jaganma.ngalamachyutaa.msha.m samaahita.m shuurasenena devii | dadhaara sarvaatmakamaatmabhuuta.m kaaShTaa yathaanandakara.m manastaH || bhaa 10.2.18 || Thereafter, accompanied by plenary expansions, the fully opulent Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is all-auspicious for the entire universe, was transferred from the mind of Vasudeva to the mind of Devakii. Devakii, having thus been initiated by Vasudeva, became beautiful by carrying Lord Krishna, the original consciousness for everyone, the cause of all causes, within the core of her heart, just as the east becomes beautiful by carrying the rising moon. (bhaagavata puraaNa 10.2.18) 1) First question: Is it commonly understood by all traditions that the Bhagavaan who entered the mind of Vasudeva and later got transferred to Devakii is Krishna (as opposed to Vishnu who entered Devakii's womb and only later became Krishna at her request)? Much of the Gaudiiya interpretation appears to rest on the premise that this Bhagavaan is Krishna, but in the Sanskrit verses I didn't think this was obvious. 2) The words "amsha-bhaagena" is used twice in this chapter, which Srila Prabhupada translates as "by My plenary expansion" (10.2.9) or "with all His potential opulences" (SB 10.2.16). Correct me if I am wrong, but "amsha-bhaagena" appears to be singular instrumental case meaning expansion (of the Lord). In the first occurrence (SB 10.2.9), Srila Prabhupada gives the synonym for "amsha-bhaagena" as "by My plenary expansion" which seems to fit this, but then in the verse he translates as "I shall then appear with My full six opulences." Perhaps he means for us to believe that these meanings are interchangeable. Still, several questions arose in my mind: 2a) Why would it be unreasonable to think that "amsha-bhaagena" refers to an expansion of Vishnu, i.e. Vishnu is appearing by means of His plenary expansion Krishna in the womb of Devakii? 2b) Will the translation of amsha-bhaagena as "with My full six opulences" seem reasonable to non-Gaudiiya commentators? It is not obvious to me why this can be translated that way although I admit I don't know what "bhaaga" means. 3) In SB 10.2.18, the term "achyutaamsha.m" is used. Srila Prabhupada translates in the synonyms as "the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is never bereft of the six opulences, all of which are present in all His plenary expansions" and in the translation as "the fully opulent Supreme Personality of Godhead." Srila Jiva Gosvami picks this verse specifically and in Krishna-Sandarbha, he points out that the term "achytaamsha.m" indicates that Lord Krishna is present along with all of His expansions (thus supporting the idea that Krishna is svayam bhagavaan). However, taking this verse literally, all it is saying is that the "Achyuta-amsha" was transferred from mind of Vasudeva to heart of Devakii. Achyuta-amsha appears to be singular, so is it not speaking of a specific amsha (expansion) of Lord Achyuta who entered the heart of Devakii? How does this term indicate Lord Krishna, accompanied by various amshas of Himself? Comments welcome. hare krishna, - K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 "krishna_susarla" <krishna_susarla@h...> wrote: > Comments welcome. > > hare krishna, > > - K --- i dont know sanskrit or its grammar but heres some similar verses that could possibly be of some use: http://bhagavatam.net/10/2/41 diSTyAmba te kukSi-gataH paraH pumAn aMzena sAkSAd bhagavAn bhavAya naH mAbhUd bhayaM bhoja-pater mumUrSor goptA yadUnAM bhavitA tavAtmajaH http://bhagavatam.net/10/33/27 zrI-parIkSid uvAca saMsthApanAya dharmasya prazamAyetarasya ca avatIrNo hi bhagavAn aMzena jagad-IzvaraH sa kathaM dharma-setUnAM vaktA kartAbhirakSitA pratIpam Acarad brahman para-dArAbhimarzanam http://bhagavatam.net/10/41/46 bhavantau kila vizvasya jagataH kAraNaM param avatIrNAv ihAMzena kSemAya ca bhavAya ca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 achintya, "dhani" <dhannyganesh> wrote: > i dont know sanskrit or its grammar but heres some similar verses > that could possibly be of some use: > > > http://bhagavatam.net/10/2/41 > > diSTyAmba te kukSi-gataH paraH pumAn > aMzena sAkSAd bhagavAn bhavAya naH > mAbhUd bhayaM bhoja-pater mumUrSor > goptA yadUnAM bhavitA tavAtmajaH > > > http://bhagavatam.net/10/33/27 > > zrI-parIkSid uvAca > saMsthApanAya dharmasya > prazamAyetarasya ca > avatIrNo hi bhagavAn > aMzena jagad-IzvaraH > sa kathaM dharma-setUnAM > vaktA kartAbhirakSitA > pratIpam Acarad brahman > para-dArAbhimarzanam > > > http://bhagavatam.net/10/41/46 > > bhavantau kila vizvasya > jagataH kAraNaM param > avatIrNAv ihAMzena > kSemAya ca bhavAya ca -- http://bhagavatam.net/11/7/2 mayA niSpAditaM hy atra deva-kAryam azeSataH yad-artham avatIrNo 'ham aMzena brahmaNArthitaH Answering the prayer of Lord brahmA, I descended within this world along with My plenary portion, Lord baladeva, and performed various activities on behalf of the demigods. I have now completed My mission here aside, maha visnu & krsna: http://bhagavatam.net/11/6/16 tvattaH pumAn samadhigamya yayAsya vIryaM dhatte mahAntam iva garbham amogha-vIryaH so 'yaM tayAnugata Atmana ANDa-kozaM haimaM sasarja bahir AvaraNair upetam My dear Lord, the original puruSa-avatAra, mahA-viSNu, acquires His creative potency from You. Thus with infallible energy He impregnates material nature, producing the mahat-tattva. Then the mahat-tattva, the amalgamated material energy, endowed with the potency of the Lord, produces from itself the primeval golden egg of the universe, which is covered by various layers of material elements Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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