Srila Prabhupada smashes rascal scientists

[Guest guest]

from a letter of TKG, August 14, 1977

 

His Divine Grace became very fired up, more than I have seen in many weeks,

and began to interrupt me every minute smashing the rascal scientists:

"Rascals. They say it is like this, it is like that. Why can they not

produce life? The sunshine is there, green plants are there. Rascals, why

can't they produce life? Simply suggesting. Unless they can produce life

what is the point of talking? Empty sounds. The scientist himself is going

to die. He is under the control of some energy. But he is puffed up.

Educated rascals. Nothing more. They were rascals before education and now

after spending so much money of the government, they are still rascals. This

rascal questions my perception. It is practical perception. You talk

nonsense, you cannot do anything. This is our practical experience. Jugglery

of words. You can't stop birth, old age, disease or death. What you can

do-simply talk. We are practical scientists. Not talkative nonsense. If

there is no God, then who is controlling you? You make a scheme and it is

spoiled. You have got good scientists, medicine, can you guarantee life? Why

men are dying? Your so-called knowledge has no value. Empty words. If you

are a scientist, why don't you give this child who is born without senses

new senses? We admit we cannot because we say God is all-powerful. But you

say you are powerful. So you do it without God. The onus is on you. Rascal.

You are simply producing empty sounds. Where is the chicken? The hen is

better scientist than you are. Within a week they produce another chicken.

Therefore you are less important than a chicken. God kicks on your mouth

with shoes. Nobel prize-another rascal has given you. If the witness is a

drunkard, then what is the use of his evidence? Just like there is some

incidence in the liquor shop. The proprietor has brought witnesses but they

are all drunkards. What is the value of such evidence? You talk of hired

wombs. There are millions of wombs without hiring. Who needs to hire? There

are uncivilized men but they have no scientific knowledge. Yet they are

producing children. You have progressed in eating and sleeping. Nothing

more. He eats by killing an animal in the jungle, and you eat by killing in

an organized slaughterhouse. He can be allowed to do it because he is not

civilized but you are not allowed to because you are supposed to be

civilized. You are God-less and you do not know. What you have gained? Your

mother and father have died. Why don't you save them? What is the value of

your education? And you will also die. Have you invented something that man

will not die? Then it would have value. You have given simply the faculty to

die earlier with your atomic energy. That is atomic energy." In this way

Srila Prabhupada received the article of Dr. Kavoor and smashed him point by

point.

 

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[Guest guest]

achintya, "Bhakti Vikasa Swami"

<Bhakti.Vikasa.Swami@p...> wrote:

> from a letter of TKG, August 14, 1977

>

> His Divine Grace became very fired up, more than I have seen in

many weeks,

> and began to interrupt me every minute .....................

 

Hare Krishna

 

I don't like to call scientist rascals. I have great respect for

them. Of course there are some or many who like to disprove Gods'

existence whenever they get a chance, but we should also realize

that the complex technology around us just proves the marvel of

modern science. All cars, aeroplanes etc..... just proves the

validity of science. Its not all together invalid. Newtonian

mechanics is well proven. The theory of gravitation is well

proven .......... etc

 

On the other hand I don't understand why Srila Prabhupada says:

 

Man never went to moon. Its a well known fact man went to moon and

now india and china are also interested in lunar mission. Probes to

mars have beamed back the pictures of martian surface and no life

form was found. I am confused that if we can see the moons' surface,

if we can see the craters and dents and terrain on moon and mars why

can't we perceive life exitence over there ? If we can see moon

itself, sun itself then why can't we perceive the life forms over

there. Why can't we see how is life flourishing over there ?

 

I don't find the belief that because we are humans we cannot see it.

In past asurs who are worst of mankind have vsited and fought with

devtas etc.... then if we visit sun or moon why won't we be able to

see them.

 

Your Servant Always

Sumeet.

 

PS: Swami ji can you ask devotees and other swamis in your contact

why does SP calls VS a full deliberation on Impersonal brahman ?

[Guest guest]

achintya, rbshah@m... wrote:

Dear Sumeet,

 

Hare Krishna

 

Although very soon you will get many befitting replies

 

>>> Hare krishna prabhu ji. Well lets see them as they come.

 

 

1.All cars, aeroplanes etc..... just proves the

validity of science.

 

Agreed these comforts exist , but to claim that science can

give the ultimate truth is

an unnecessary claim and just a show of pride.

 

>>> Did you read my reply properly ? How come you got the idea that I

said that science can provide ultimate truth ? Have you seen my posts

in this forum ? Are any of them suggestive of my believing that

science is the way to ultimate truth.

 

What I said was that "All cars, aeroplanes etc..... just proves the

validity of science. Its not all together invalid." Please read the

words "not all together invalid" again. And i hope then everything

makes sense to you.

 

And yeah i believe no matter whatever happens in this world,

devotional service can be practised without any hindrance. Indeed,

devotional service can be practised in hell too. <<<<<

 

 

A small but growing number of people believe that am never went to

the moon. Several scientists and engineers from from the original

NASA team say that that there are a number of inconsistencies in

the video clippings provided by NASA., they are too numerous to be

enumerated here.If you haven't seen the CD , let me know , I will

send it to you.

 

Also known is the fact that several attempts to explore the mars have

resulted in failure . I can give you the details on request.

 

>>>> Well I have heard about all that stuff. Its upto an individual

to believe what is true what is not. If trip to moon is impossible,

china and india wouldn't try that now. And about mars, yeah many

missions in my memory i can recall 22 mission failures. I read it in

time magazine. But the mission of pathfinder, vikings etc.... was a

success. And martian surface was found to be without life. All that i

am saying is simple, if there are demigods etc..... living there then

what is the difficulty in seeing them. If someone visits earths

surface you can see life here. Then why not one can see the same on

mars or moon ? <<<<

 

 

It should be absolutely clear to you that humans have four defects.

Imperfect senses, propensity to be illusioned, tendency to commit

mistakes and to cheat . Whereas spiritual preceptors shastras and

Shrila Prabhupada are free from it We are helpless , we have to rely

on some authority .

 

>>>> Theoretically this seems very nice and agreeable. But have you

ever found differences in words of spiritual masters. According to

Ramanuja the avatars of Lord are not eternal, though they are not

mayic in nature as advaitins claim. But this claim is countered by

gaudiyas and madhvas. Which one of them is right ? Who has committed

mistake and who hasn't ? Please answer me. <<<<

 

 

Whether you choose the rascal scientists or the great souls, the

choice is yours.

 

>>>> Using this kind of harsh terminology for scientist won't help

our cause - propagating this movement further. Such words will only

defame our character and that of our movement. If we want to differ

from scientists and show they are wrong, then we can do that

peacefully and respectfully. Follow example of Sriman Mahaprabhu:

 

"One should chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of

mind, thinking oneself lower than the straw in the street; one should

be more tolerant than a tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige,

and should be ready to offer all respect to others. In such a state

of mind one can chant the holy name of the Lord constantly."

 

He showed all respect to the mayavadis who are bigger cheaters than

scientists, yet defeated them by sound arguements. Peoples' heart is

won by polite etiquette, this kind of fired up behavior will not win

us anyones' heart and neither anyones' respect. <<<<

 

 

Your Servant Always

Sumeet.

[Guest guest]

>What I said was that "All cars, aeroplanes etc..... just proves the >validity

of science. Its not all together invalid." Please read the >words "not all

together invalid" again. And i hope then everything >makes sense to you.Dear

Prabhu,

Science is not invalid. But that the science doesn't solve

life's problems in a long term is a fact. A scientific view of the surroundings

removes the life out of existence.Under such conditions, it only increases one's

disability in accepting authority. Modern science is totally based on Pratyaksha

& anumana . Much less than sabda. Not that these are inferior prameyas but that,

these misguide one when one begins one's study into anything spiritual.

Srila Prabhupada Grouped the modern scientists as "MAyaya

'pahrita Jnana". He does accept that they have intelligence but then it is

usurped by Maya that ultimately, they conclude or lead others to conclude away

from God.

Srila Prabhupada said that, the scientists can create new things but the

devotees will use them for Krishna Conscious purposes. He called them Ajagra

Vritti.Now, whether something is favorable or unfavorable depends on the way we

see it & the circumstances. This being so, for one who is a neophyte with

fledgling faith in God, it is better to trust Sastras & keep away from science(

especially when one in not well developed in terms of knowledge & conviction).

Neophytes are not so expert in converting unfavorable circumstances to favorable

ones and hence better to keep away.

>Well I have heard about all that stuff. Its upto an individual >to believe what

is true what is not. If trip to moon is impossible, >china and india wouldn't

try that now. And about mars, yeah many >missions in my memory i can recall 22

mission failures. I read it in >time magazine. But the mission of pathfinder,

vikings etc.... was a >success. And martian surface was found to be without

life. All that i >am saying is simple, if there are demigods etc..... living

there then >what is the difficulty in seeing them. If someone visits earths

>surface you can see life here. Then why not one can see the same on >mars or

moon ?

Whether man went to the moon or not can be argued by either sides . But the fact

remains that it is of no use. For what they are(Rascals!) do you expect them to

come out in the open that their mission was a failure, with the Russians

closely behind them with their space acheivements.If you accept politicians as

Rascals, the nexus between Scientists and politicians should be good enough to

justify.

Now India & China too may send their spaceships on a

moon mission & then we will see some photographs/videos of Indian or chines

astronauts walking on the moon.Is it proof enough that man went on the moon? Do

you think either of them will accept failure?One of Srila Prabhupada's disciples

left when he could not tolerate Srila Prabhupada stating that man never went to

the moon. Srila Prabhupada was very unhappy that he left. But then he said" How

could I accept that the Sastras are wrong?". Now its either the newspaper & TV

or the sastras. In either way the fact is unverifiable.The onus is on the

seeker to choose.

Here I can see that you are pitting a Time magazine edition against Srimad Bhagavatham!!!

Even if man went on the moon, our bodies are made of grosser

elements than the bodies on moon.Hence, people with subtle bodies can see those

with grosser bodies. But not the vice-versa. If then you ask ,How the asuras can

see the Devas- we do not know fully, what the asuras were equipped with

additionally- They had the Great Sukracharya to help them with numerous mantras

using mystical science. While we are only using total gross technology.

Even the asuras who used to attack the devas, could go only

upto svarga Loka. They cannot go any further up. I think Bali Maharaja had

captured upto Mahaloka. Even he could not go any higher.

Srila Prabhupada once said that the modern day astronauts landed on Rahu planet.

In this regard I'll tell you a joke. There was a cartoon of man

searching on the moon for life & two rocks speak to themselves" Shhh! Don't

move! Let those idiots think that we are rocks!".

Today "Science is the opium of the masses".>"One should

chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of >mind, thinking oneself

lower than the straw in the street; one should >be more tolerant than a tree,

devoid of all sense of false prestige, >and should be ready to offer all

respect to others. In such a state >of mind one can chant the holy name of the

Lord constantly.">He showed all respect to the mayavadis who are bigger

cheaters than >scientists, yet defeated them by sound arguements. Peoples'

heart is >won by polite etiquette, this kind of fired up behavior will not win

>us anyones' heart and neither anyones' respect.

True, but how about defending oneself ? "Sunile Mayavadi Bhashya Haya Sarva

Nasha"- This was also said by Mahaprabhu.According to Mahaprabhu, if you see a

Mayavadi, you are advised to jump in the the ganges with clothes on !

The dictionary meaning of Rascal is "A deceitful and unreliable scoundrel".

Hence someone who consciuosly cheats the common public, when he himself is

unaware or unsure, what with all his frailties, can be suitably called so.

 

Dasan

Narasimhan

 

 

[Guest guest]

achintya, rbshah@m... wrote:

 

> Dear Sumeet Pr,

 

Hare Krishna

You seem to defend the scientists for the wrong reasons and not for

why Shrila Prabhupada condemns them .

 

Hare Krishna,

>>> I know the reasons why SP condemns them. Its not too difficult to

understand. I never made any points on science being ultimate truth

or providing us with a accurate creation theory etc..........

 

The point i raise is very simple:

 

First note how i bring out my point in the very first reply of mine "

I don't like to call scientist rascals."

I didn't say I don't agree to call scientist rascals. I just said i

don't like to. One may not like something but that doesn't implies

disagreement, atleast not always. Example I may not like medicine i

am taking, nonetheless this disliking doesn't affects my belief that

it will cure me and it is right to take as it is in my best interests.

 

Now please try to understand why I don't like to call scientist

rascals:

 

"Using this kind of harsh terminology for scientist won't help

our cause - propagating this movement further. Such words will only

defame our character and that of our movement. If we want to differ

from scientists and show they are wrong, then we can do that

peacefully and respectfully. Now what is peacefull and respectful way:

1) No need to get fired up. Be peaceful. Sriman Mahaprabhu didn't get

fired up at hearing mayavadis. Rather he was in his usual peacefull

position. And defeated them with sound arguements. Mayavadis were

stunned. Most devotees i have seen end up becoming fanatical in their

response. Their irritation at atheistic comments and anger clearly

undermines our cause.

 

2) Respectfully: When you give someone respect you are polite. So

instead of using a harsh word like Rascal we can use a "relatively"

polite word like cheater, dishonest..... Both the words actually

convey our message. Only difference is "rascal" is more harsher than

the word "cheater or dishonest". Such polite demeanour and respectful

treatment of various opposing views will win us many hearts and

appreciation. Although if one will be fanatical and at the same time

use terms like rascal etc.... even though we may be correct but it

shall not win us anyones heart or appreciation. You should be aware

of the mentality of people[common man] out there who are the

audience. In world today, any such behaviour will be seen in light of

religious fundamentalism and nothing more. People in general don't

like fundamentalist treatment of scientific subjects. This should be

very clear to everyone. You have to preach according to

time/circumstances and the audience. There are many "innocent" people

out there who have faith in God despite what science claims, but even

they don't like such kind of behaviour.

 

Actually I have some other important things to take care of right

now. So I will reply to rest of your reply later.

 

 

Your Servant Always,

Sumeet.

[Guest guest]

I think you are both having different discussions. Sumeet I believe

was questioning whether the sort of heavy-handed treatment of

scientists was conducive to preaching. No doubt Srila Prabhupada said

many things about scientists that tend to get quoted over and over

again, even in different contexts by individuals who might not have

the potency he did.

 

I don't think there is any doubt here that many "scientific"

paradigms are lacking in conclusive evidence to back them up, and as

such many individuals claiming to be "scientific" hawk those

paradigms as if they are obvious facts, rather than questioning them

as we do.

 

I once read a joke which said that "diplomacy is the ability to tell

someone to go to h*ll in such a way that he actually looks forward to

the trip." Srila Prabhupada seemed to have the unique ability of

being able to call someone a rascal to his face, and still they would

come back for more. I for one wouldn't try to imitate this, since I'm

sure that all I would do is offend them and turn them off.

 

But that doesn't mean we can't be assertive. There is a way to be

both polite as well as assertive. There is way to make someone look

like a fool without making it seem that we have lost our tempers.

It's a fine art, but it can be done.

 

At the same, we should realize that a pure devotee like Srila

Prabhupada is always transcendental, even in his anger. I suppose if

we could be similarly Krishna-conscious even when angry, then we

could also use such heavy "in your face" language too.

 

K