Cow protection

[Guest guest]

[subject renamed to better suit content. - moderator]

 

Haribol, Sumeet. I’ll add a few comments below.

 

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, sumeet1981 wrote:

> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3152508.stm

> These cows are being taken to outskirts of the city. They will be

> kept at some place where they will feed on hay or grass rather than

> plastic bags and other metropolitan waste. Its actually good for them. They

> ain't gonna be slaughtered. So whats shocking ?

 

I admit it's an assumption, but judging from the way cows are already being

mistreated in India (see http://www.petaindia.org/400cattacalc.html), it seems

not unlikely that these cows may ultimately just be sold off to someone who’ll

eventually send them away for slaughter. Since the people who implement such

cosmetic measures in Delhi tend to be pretty corrupt, I don't think it's such an

unreasonable assumption.

 

 

> Also, i am from delhi and it just doesn't looks good that cows are

> roaming openly on the roads and streets. They cause traffic problem

> and often accidents. They also get injured. So in that way its better

> to put them away.

 

However, the best thing is to put away the traffic instead, because unlike cows,

cars are essentially unnecessary. That may be dismissed as idealism, but it's

nonetheless good to keep focused on what's really valuable in life—and on who we

really are. Otherwise, our needless problems multiply exponentially, as we can

see.

 

These problems are best represented worldwide in the illegitimate metropolo-ises

born of our rape of mother earth, for they fill each one of them

(e.g., http://www.click2houston.com/news/2489961/detail.html?subid=22100412).

It's neither natural nor beneficial to live in such horrible conditions, which

only follow naturally from people’s collective lust, anger, and greed.

Urbanized people lose sight of this, through the long conditioning effected by

various bad associations within such artificial and materialistic environments.

People can only live truly human lives when they are simpler, agrarian, and

pious.

 

 

 

> And regarding cow slaughter, India being a secular country where

> religion is seperate from state or atleast its suppose to be seperate

> from state, we can't impose such restrictions based on values and

> belief of a certain religion.

 

Cow protection is a principle only superficially coexistent with any specific

religion(s). It doesn't really matter what religion we feel we belong to--if we

mistreat cows, brahmanas, and Vaisnavas, our whole civilization will soon perish

(cf. Bhagavata, 7.4.27). Believe it or not, this has happened many, many, many,

many, many times before.

 

In one lecture in Durban, Srila Prabhupada explained how we aren’t talking of

Hindu religion, we’re speaking of the laws of nature. When Krsna tells Arjuna

that the embodied spirit passes from childhood, to youth, to old age, it isn’t

that this applies only to Hindus, and that because they don’t believe in

Hinduism, others don’t die, etc.

 

Similarly, it is always sinful to kill needlessly, and those who do so anyway

will accept the natural consequences whether they know this or not. Of course

anyone is free to believe whatever they wish, and some beliefs are definitely

just foolish. At all times some people will understand the laws of nature

better than others, because we aren’t all equal; some people are bright and

others aren’t. This matters to everyone.

 

Anyway, I’m told that whatever the reasons, cow slaughter is also technically

banned in secular India, even for Muslims during Eid.

 

 

 

> This will not be fair for people practising other

> religions and of course against the secular premise of our

> constitution and preamble.

 

Within the extremely short epoch known as recorded history, India's most

glorious days occured when kings like Ashoka encouraged *generic* and

universally appreciated religious *principles*.

 

That's much different than the ill-founded theocracies seen in some countries

today, which can hardly satisfy even those who created them.

 

It is the responsibilty of all world leaders to encourage people to essentially

embrace the universal principles of religion (i.e., cleanliness, mercy,

truthfulness, austerity, etc.), with empathy, placing less emphasis on the kind

of applicational details that bewilder kanistha-adhikaris (cf. Bhagavatam,

11.2.47). Needless killing of others is universally rejected according to all

religious principles, just as everyone--regardless of his mode of faith--depends

on agriculture to survive.

 

 

 

> Please lets not press for every social and political

> organisation to be based on vedic principles because thats far from

> happening. Let only us live with those principles. Lets be real, and

> practise according to modern days in a way suited to todays world.

 

There is no such thing as "today's world." Time itself, apart from Krsna, is

but a system of measuring our collective illusion, the fanciful dream of

innumerable false egos. Hence there are as many worldviews as there are smells

wafting thfrough the air, and they too serve the needs/wants of bewildered,

conditional souls. Some ideas may be relatively "new," or "modern," in terms of

what "weknow" of "history," but the fact of the matter is that these

ideologies reincarnate themselves under different names and forms just as often

as we ourselves do--mainly to facilitate the rascal dreams they try to validate.

They represent only the myriad ways in which one may seek to evade Krsna. Under

their temporary sway (like so many bubbles in the vast ocean of nescience), we

become so drunk that we sometimes even dismiss our eternal function within human

life, thus practically squandering the rare opportunity to transcend the whole

mess we’ve created for ourselves. However, tho!

se who are cultivating awareness of reality don't become confused by the

misconceptions of those who are cultivating illusions (Bhagavata, 3.2.10).

Similarly, those who even theoretically know they aren't their material bodies

don't feel so impelled to embrace anyone else’s irresonsible rejection of such

time-honored and pragmatic duties (cf. Gita, 9.12); educated people who have

conquered lust, anger, and greed know what is good for them. That’s the nature

of sreyas (acaraty atmanah sreyas tato yati param gatim).

 

 

 

 

> You cannot have a varna asrama based society today.

 

I would rather say we shouldn’t cherish any static notions of varnasrama; that

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura so much stressed "daivi varnasrama,"

suggests that he also felt this way. At any rate, there’s absolutely no doubt

that varnasrama-dharma is eternal (Bhagavatam, 4.2.31, purport):

 

“This system is sanatana—it comes from time immemorial, and it will continue in

the same way. There is no power in the world which can stop it. Therefore, since

this sanätana-dharma system is eternal, one can elevate himself to the highest

standard of spiritual life by following the Vedic principles.”

 

It’s also operative everywhere, and not just in India (ibid):

 

“For example, whether or not one accepts the name brahmana, there is a class in

society which is known as the intelligent class and which is interested in

spiritual understanding and philosophy. Similarly, there is a class of men who

are interested in administration and in ruling others. In the Vedic system these

martially spirited men are called ksatriyas. Similarly, everywhere there is a

class of men who are interested in economic development, business, industry and

money-making; they are called vaisyas. And there is another class who are

neither intelligent nor martially spirited nor endowed with the capacity for

economic development but who simply can serve others. They are called sudras, or

the laborer class.”

 

 

 

 

> for example:

> All land is governed by sudras mostly. So where will one go ?

 

Srila Prabhupada's noble intent was to change them (cf., Bhagavata, 2.4.18), to

bring them to Krsna consciousness:

 

“The society must be--brahmana. Vedic culture means to create every person a

brahmana, not to keep him sudra. Of course, in the modern educational system,

the purpose is to elevate, the general people. But they do not know how to

elevate. Therefore there is so much trouble. The elevation should be... There

must be some purpose, end. . . . Education means to lead the people gradually to

Krsna consciousness.”

 

Instead of hiding in India and trying to stave off Kaliyuga, like so many others

failed to do, Srila Prabhupada came into Maya's citadel itself, planted the most

subversive seeds possible, carefully cultivated whatever creepers sprouted, and

instructed these followers to continue his work, as they are doing now. This is

an eternal process, and a great privelege. Hence, Lord Caitanya ordered all

those born in India to take it up wholeheartedly.

 

As a point of interest in this connection, near the end of his presence amidst

us, Srila Prabhupada also said that varnsarama was the remaining 50% of his

mission.

 

The spiritual implications of this concern are suggested throughout Srila

Prabhupada's books, as seen, for example, in this purport (Bhagavtam, 3.1.17):

 

"Persons who are sinful asuras like Kamsa and Jarasandha cannot think of Lord

Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the Absolute Truth. Only those who

are pure devotees, those who follow the regulative principles of religious life

as prescribed in the scriptures, are able to engage themselves in karma-yoga and

then jnana-yoga and thereafter, by pure meditation, can understand pure

consciousness. When God consciousness is developed, one can take advantage of

the association of pure devotees."

 

We've even experienced this in ISKCON, so it’s modern relevence ought to be

clear.

 

 

 

> or consider this one:

> Srimad Bhagavatam (11.17.47)

> "If a brahmana cannot support himself through his regular duties and

> is thus suffering, he may adopt the occupation of a merchant and

> overcome his destitute condition by buying and selling material

> things. If he continues to suffer extreme poverty even as a merchant, then

> he may adopt the occupation of a ksatriya, taking sword in hand. But he

> cannot in any circumstances become like a dog, accepting an ordinary

> master."

 

This instruction makes the tacit postulation that varnasrama can still function

even in such an optimum manner, which underscores the idea that it just isn't as

static as we want it to be. Being eternal reality, it's simply impossible to

dismiss it’s function. So unless we practice our sanatana-dharma under the

guidance of Krsna or His bonafide representatives, all we can do is pervert it

even more than we already have. We can only deface it; we can never erase it.

 

 

 

> So we can't work for christian beef eating mleccha masters in US nor

> in their companies in india ........ neither can we work for those

> hindus who are ordinary in vedic sense.

 

That extremely tenuous economic paradigm will have to change if future

generations are at all going to remain eligible for Krsna consciousness--because

the lifestyle/social system most of us currently patronize, practically

disqualifies people from even recognizing and appreciating (what to speak of

practicing) spiritual life. It does so perniciously, but very forcefully just

the same. Moreover, it affects all other aspects of our existence, so it must

be treated as wholistically as Vedic tradition generally enjoins.

 

An increasing number of intelligent, faithful people can intuit this in some

sense, and to some degree. So if you and I don't share whatever Krsna

consciousness we have with them--and encourage them to try to practice it

(especially through our own example)--someone else will inspire them with an

inferior mode of faith, and they will adopt that, possibly to their

detriment--our ours. The undeniable appeal of so-called Muslim terrorists

worldwide attests to this unfortunate fact.

 

If we each do what's right, Krsna will help us (cf. Bhagavata, 4.21.44). We're

all in this together, and we're all responsible for we do as individuals. We're

also responsible for what we do for the world while we have the chance

(Bhagavata, 10.22.35):

 

"It is the duty of every living being to perform welfare activities for the

benefit of others with his life, wealth, intelligence and words."

 

 

 

 

> (Kurma Purana)

> According to this we can't go anywhere and eat especially those

> places where people ain't krishna conscious like us and this includes homes

> of many modern day hindus in india.

 

The importance of the principle of avoiding foodstuffs prepared by materialists

should not be underestimated (cf Gita, 3.13, etc.). Srila Prabhupada was

generally very strict about this. The idea that "you are what you eat" is

supported even in srutis, such as the Taittiryiropanisad, etc. Krsna is so kind

that He supplies us His remnants.

 

I hope this is helpful.

 

MDd

[Guest guest]

achintya, mpt@u... wrote:

> I admit it's an assumption, but judging from the way cows are

already being mistreated in India (see

http://www.petaindia.org/400cattacalc.html), it seems not unlikely

that these cows may ultimately just be sold off to someone who'll

eventually send them away for slaughter. Since the people who

implement such cosmetic measures in Delhi tend to be pretty corrupt,

I don't think it's such an unreasonable assumption.

>

 

In fact, I didn't want to say it earlier, but that was precisely my

concern as well. We all know how leaders ignorant of Vedic principles

behave, what to speak of corrupt leaders who are also ignorant of

Vedic principles.

 

"Who cares what happens to these cows, as long these people will take

them off our hands?" This is the likely thinking of Indian leaders

who have been educated according to Western standards and secretly

maintain ambivalence or even antipathy to the standards of their

ancestral culture. They think cow-protection is a superstitious thing

and don't care what happens to them. Even Indians in America who

pretend to admire Bhagavad-gita and Hinduism also think like this, so

what to speak of the politicians.