BHAGAVAD-GITA 4:36

[Guest guest]

achintya, Vijay Sadananda Pai <vijaypai@e...> wrote:

> BHAGAVAD-GITA 4:36

>

> api ced asi papebhyah

> sarvebhyah papa-krt-tamah

> sarvam jnana-plavenaiva

> vrjinam santarisyasi

> Even if you are considered to be the most sinful of all sinners,

when

> you are situated in the boat of transcendental knowledge you will

be

> able to cross over the ocean of miseries.

Hare Krishna, AGTSP, AGTSSG+G

 

Can you please enlighten me as to how one can be the most sinful of

sinners and yet be in full transcendental knowledge?

 

I can understand if someone once commits a sin due to circumstances

but to be considered the most sinful of sinners one must be

committing sins on an ongoing/regular basis ?

 

Haribol

Mukesh

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, mcthaker wrote:

> > BHAGAVAD-GITA 4:36

> > "Even if you are considered to be the most sinful of all sinners,

> > when you are situated in the boat of transcendental knowledge you will

> > be able to cross over the ocean of miseries."

>

> Can you please enlighten me as to how one can be the most sinful of

> sinners and yet be in full transcendental knowledge?

>

> I can understand if someone once commits a sin due to circumstances

> but to be considered the most sinful of sinners one must be

> committing sins on an ongoing/regular basis ?

 

 

It is a striking declaration, isn't it? However, the acaryas'

commentaries confirm that Krsna means exactly what He says here. It

seems that the following verse (4.37) explains your question to some

extent. Knowledge naturally destroys sin, just as fire turns fuel into

ashes. Ramanujacarya says that the fire of actual self realization destroys

sin in this way. Sridharasvami clarifies that it isn't that we are relieved

of whatever sinful residue continues to exist; rather, that sin itself is

completely burnt up.

 

However, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura raises the exact same

question you've asked, in his commentary (by the way, he quotes Madhusudana

Sarasvati); a sinful person cannot be pure, but unless one is purified,

he cannot have factual self realization--and yet one with such knowledge

will not sin! So it seems an impossible situation. For this reason,

Visvanatha Caklravarti Thakura says, Krsna states it only hypothetically:

"even if" (api cet), and, "he would be delivered" (santarisyati).

 

Krsna has already stated the effect of properly approaching a

bonafide guru and being enlightened by his Divine grace (Gita 4.34-35).

Thus there is no question of remaining "the most sinful" after that. However,

anyone who was *previously* the most sinful of sinful persons can be so

delivered by the mercy of the Lord's pure devotee (cf., Bhagavata

2.4.18, 6.1.16, etc.).

 

But there's still a problem here, which comes up in Cakravartipada's

commentary on the next verse (4.37). Transcendental knowledge destroys

all one's sinful effects--except prarabdha-karma. In this, he agrees with

Sridharasvami, who said the same thing in his commentary.

 

Now we come to Srila Prabhupada's purport (to 4.37), which mentions

the different kinds of karmas that are operative upon us all:

 

"There are many stages of reaction: reaction in the making, reaction

fructifying, reaction already achieved, and reaction a priori."

 

Srila Prabhupada elsewhere refers to karmas as: "kutastha,phalonmukha,"

"prarabdha," and "bija;" I'm assuming that these are intended here. These

four are also usually grouped into two broader categories--1) aprarabdha

(unmanifest), and 2) prarabdha (presently manifest). It also seems that

these two groups indicate what Prabhupada here calls "a priori" and "a

posteriori," although I don't know this.

 

1) Aprarabdha-karma subsumes bija, kuta-stha, and phalonmukha.

Aprarabdha-karma is on its way (thus it's also called agami-karma), but it

isn't yet manifested or perceptible. The tendency to commit sin is itself

an aprarabdha result of past sins, called "kuta." Sex desire may be a

good example of this (though sex isn't *necessarily* sinful, however often

it actually is), and a specific, sinful desire is called "bija." Since

all sinful activity involves suffering, it produces prarabdha, and further

aprarabdha as well. However, I'm not sure that this is what Srila

Prabhupada calls "phalonmukha."

 

2) Prarabdha karma is manifest in this life and cannot be destroyed

by any mundane means such as atonement; it automatically plays itself out,

since it is part and parcel of one's body. It is destroyed only when it

is spent, and cannot be evaded or changed; even those who are liberated

from karma continue living in the body because of this prarabdha-karma.

It is like the fan which continues spinning even after the power is cut

off. Similarly, once one buys a ticket and boards an airplane (i.e.,

takes birth), one cannot choose another destination.

 

So how does knowledge make one "sinless" if it doesn't actually

destroy one's prarabdha reactions? Srila Prabhupada continues:

 

"But knowledge of the constitutional position of the

living entity burns everything to ashes. When one is in complete

knowledge, all reactions, both a priori and a posteriori, are

consumed. In the Vedas (Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad 4.4.22) it is stated,

ubhe uhaivaisa ete taraty amrtah sadhv-asadhuni: 'One overcomes both

the pious and impious reactions of work.'"

 

Given what the acaryas have commented on Gita 4.36-37 (i.e., that

knowledge only destroys aprarabdha karmas), why would Srila Prabhupada

here imply that both prarabdha and aprarabdha karmas are destroyed? For

that matter, how can mere knowledge destroy even the very tendency to sin?

Visvanatha Cakravartipada qualified his (4.37) comment, that one who has

been internally purified (suddhantahkaranasyotpannam) is freed from sins.

Yet we've all seen (or experienced) that even good people do things they know

are wrong--because the tendency to sin sometimes still overpowers one's

discrimination, as even Krsna (in Gita 2.67) and Arjuna (in Gita 3.36) both

admit.

 

I feel Srila Prabhupada means pure devotional service when he says

"complete knowledge" above. After all, knowledge isn't really useful

until it is applied, and bhakti is that application. This interpretation,

following from Bhagavata 1.2.29 (vasudevah param jnanam) and Gita 7.19

(jnanavan mam prapadyate), also tallies with Bhagavata 6.1.15 (the purport of

which discusses the abovementioned karmas in some detail and is well worth

studying):

 

"Only a rare person who has adopted complete, unalloyed devotional

service to Krsna can uproot the weeds of sinful actions with no possibility

that they will revive. He can do this simply by discharging devotional

service, just as the sun can immediately dissipate fog by its rays.

 

According to Brahma-samhita (5.54), Krsna personally diminishes one's

karma, almost to nil. Similarly, and quite to the point, simply by chanting

Hare Krsna, one not only destroys all sins, but also gains bhakti, which

is characterized as "klesa-ghni" (pain destroying) by Srila Rupa Gosvami.

He also glorifies Krsna's name for this great mercy, in his Namastakam,

especially in text 4 of that stotra:

 

yad brahma-saksat-krti-nisthayapi

vinasam ayati vina na bhogaih |

apaiti nama sphuranena tat te

prarabdha-karmeti virauti vedah || 4 ||

 

"The ripened reactions of past deeds now beginning to take effect

cannot be erased without completing their due fruition--not even by someone

fixed in direct realization of brahman; but the destruction of [that very]

prarabdha-karma is attained [merely] by Your appearance, O holy name.

Such, the Vedas proclaim."

 

Thus Srila Sukadeva Gosvami advised Raja Pariksit (Bhagavata 6.3.31):

 

"My dear King, the chanting of the holy name of the Lord is able

to uproot even the reactions of the greatest sins. Therefore the chanting of

the sankirtana movement is the most auspicious activity in the entire

universe. Please try to understand this so that others will take it

seriously."

 

MDd

[Guest guest]

BHAGAVAD-GITA 4:36

 

api ced asi papebhyah

sarvebhyah papa-krt-tamah

sarvam jnana-plavenaiva

vrjinam santarisyasi

 

WORD FOR WORD

 

api--even; cet--if; asi--you are; papebhyah--of sinners;

sarvebhyah--of all; papa-krt-tamah--the greatest sinner; sarvam--all

such sinful reactions; jnana-plavena--by the boat of transcendental

knowledge; eva--certainly; vrjinam--the ocean of miseries;

santarisyasi--you will cross completely.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Even if you are considered to be the most sinful of all sinners, when

you are situated in the boat of transcendental knowledge you will be

able to cross over the ocean of miseries.

 

PURPORT

 

Proper understanding of one's constitutional position in relationship

to Krsna is so nice that it can at once lift one from the struggle for

existence which goes on in the ocean of nescience. This material world

is sometimes regarded as an ocean of nescience and sometimes as a

blazing forest. In the ocean, however expert a swimmer one may be, the

struggle for existence is very severe. If someone comes forward and

lifts the struggling swimmer from the ocean, he is the greatest

savior. Perfect knowledge, received from the Supreme Personality of

Godhead, is the path of liberation. The boat of Krsna consciousness is

very simple, but at the same time the most sublime.

 

Copyright 1983 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International. Used with

permission.