Gaudiya Bhaktivedanta Portal ...

[Guest guest]

Dear Devotees,

 

Hare Krishna.

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

Together with my devotee friends in Bangalore, Ashwin Prabhu and Sushma

Mataji, we have registered a portal

in our humble attempt to facilitate the focused study and research of the

Gaudiya Vaishnava approach to Vedanta. The url is

www.gaudiyabhaktivedanta.com . It will be a closed forum open to devotees

based on invitation only, at least for the time-being. We will be contacting

all interested devotees very soon about the portal once the shell has been

placed at the domain. We are keeping the membership on a purely invitation

basis because the nature of the subject matter is serious and focused. Our

aim is to approach the study via the Bhaktivedanta purports and all devotees

invited must be dedicated to Srila Prabhupada. Until we get a credible core

group of devotees and a highly mature level of discussion going forth, we

feel it better to ensure that the foundational culture of this forum be

properly established first. Thereafter when sufficient development has taken

place, we may consider opening the forum to others. We have seen too many

forums begun with great promise which have dwindled into an unfocused market

zone selling general goods filled with mutual mudslinging much to no one's

spiritual benefit. We wish to avoid this situation.

 

Anyone interested to be a member, please contact me at

rjsimman

 

There are several senior devotees and members of Achintya list whom we have

already identified as good contributors to this envisaged project which

would be a long-term one. Differences in terms of institutional politics is

a reality. However, a culture of mutual respect and brahminical etiquette is

expected of all devotees. We are here to learn and differences should be

handled in a very mature manner, with all due respect given to the other

party. We have a whole field for study and nourishment. Doing this in the

association of one another is meant to add further nourishment.

 

More details to come soon.

 

 

 

your servant,

R. Jai Simman

Singapore

[Guest guest]

achintya, "Jai Simman s/o R. Rangasamy"

<rjsimman@s...> wrote:

 

> Together with my devotee friends in Bangalore, Ashwin Prabhu and

Sushma

> Mataji, we have registered a portal

> in our humble attempt to facilitate the focused study and research

of the

> Gaudiya Vaishnava approach to Vedanta. The url is

> www.gaudiyabhaktivedanta.com . It will be a closed forum open to

devotees

> based on invitation only, at least for the time-being. We will be

contacting

> all interested devotees very soon about the portal once the shell

has been

> placed at the domain. We are keeping the membership on a purely

invitation

> basis because the nature of the subject matter is serious and

focused. Our

> aim is to approach the study via the Bhaktivedanta purports and all

devotees

> invited must be dedicated to Srila Prabhupada. Until we get a

credible core

> group of devotees and a highly mature level of discussion going

forth, we

> feel it better to ensure that the foundational culture of this

forum be

> properly established first.

 

Hare Krishna.

 

When we first started the Achintya list back in 1998, the original

intention was for it to attract the more intellectual members of the

Gaudiiya Vaishnava community for precisely the sorts of discussions

you are proposing to have. Eventually, I opened the list up to

everyone, because I didn't like the idea of only a select few getting

the benefit of those kinds of discussions. Thus, Achintya remained a

general Gaudiiya Vaishnava forum, but with a fairly liberal and open-

minded atmosphere that still encouraged people to disagree and doubt.

We've had discussions here which we would never have been able to

have anywhere else, what to speak of in a closed forum that is

invitation-only. A good example of this is the Gaudiiya

paramparaa "issue." At the same time, we made no attempt

to "insulate" or "protect" the younger devotees from these

discussions, since the principle was to encourage critical thinking

rather than discouraging it.

 

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is, if the intellectual

discussions are going to migrate to another forum, then Achintya will

have pretty much become obsolete, and I doubt I will continue to

moderate it since there won't be much of a role left for it which

others forums could not handle. Conversely, if I had to continue

moderating Achintya, I'm sure I would not be able to participate in

another forum with the serious sort of thrust you are proposing it

would have.

 

I would still recommend that we try to recruit the "intellectual"

devotees into this forum, rather than creating a separate forum

somewhere else that will become insulated from the general Vaishnava

community.

 

yours,

 

K

[Guest guest]

I agree with most of Krishna Prabhu's comments, although I cannot help but

appreciate Jai Simman Prabhu's wonderful efforts. Achintya is very

well-moderated and the standard of discussions is high. I think Krishna prabhu

is doing a great job. I think one of the problems in trying to engage

intellectual (those who are advanced in knowledge and bhakti) Gaudiyas is that

sometimes their humility prevents them from engaging in debates. So, finally

you reach a point where you have only people like me speaking up. So, if you

can get a written commitment from the intellectual ones, then your efforts

maybe worthwhile.

 

If you decide to have the other forum (and make the membership restricted) and

dissolve achintya, then you may lose some inquisitive and potentiallly

intellectual members. But, in the long-run having a focused group aided by

careful nurturing may result in a forum with very high quality and quantity.

So, I guess there are both positive and negative ones in having two groups with

identical goals. Please take opinion of senior devotees before considering

anything final on this issue.

 

in your service,

Aravind.

 

 

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[Guest guest]

achintya, "krishna_susarla"

<krishna_susarla@h...> wrote:

> achintya, "Jai Simman s/o R. Rangasamy"

> <rjsimman@s...> wrote:

>

> > Together with my devotee friends in Bangalore, Ashwin Prabhu and

> Sushma

> > Mataji, we have registered a portal

> > in our humble attempt to facilitate the focused study and

research

> of the

> > Gaudiya Vaishnava approach to Vedanta.

 

>

> Hare Krishna.

>

> When we first started the Achintya list back in 1998, the original

> intention was for it to attract the more intellectual members of

the

> Gaudiiya Vaishnava community for precisely the sorts of

discussions

> you are proposing to have. Eventually, I opened the list up to

> everyone, because I didn't like the idea of only a select few

getting

> the benefit of those kinds of discussions.

 

Krishna prabhu i guess in some or the other way we have failed to

meet something Jai Simman prabhu wanted.

 

 

Please refer to post 276 on this list. Thats the first post by him.

 

He says:

"I would like to first of all extend my thanks to the devotees

who have created and maintained this forum. It is so much needed.

I have seen so much Gaudiya bashing coming from other sampradayic

quarters

and yet Gaudiya Vaishnavas have not had ample opportunity to address,

understand

and rebutt the allegations within a conducive environment. They are

most

often shut off

for infringing upon the subject parameters set forth by the other

discussion

groups.

 

Is there any particular Vedantic discussion that is systematically

followed

on this list ?

I am very new here and hence not well exposed to the contents

hitherto

presented here.

 

My humble suggestion, if this has not been implemented here, would to

systematically..................".

 

Please read the full post. I guess he didn't get what he wanted. May

be we should address these points now.

 

Jai Simman sir, i don't wanna name but i guess i know which devotees

you will be inviting from here. Rather than having all of us at a

new place, please invite your friends to this forum.

 

The point is that the participating members will be the same X

irrespective of the fact whether they are here or there. Whether a

list has X + Y [Y being non-active or passive ones] or only just

those X members, the people making posts and actively participating

will be the same ones. Those who are in group Y cannot cause any

disturbance to X and neither can they pose any problem to X or the

list. As for those few people who create trouble, they can be weeded

out with careful and just moderation. We can increase the number of

moderators on achintya if needed. Please consider these points.

 

Furthermore some of those Y attentively read the posts made by

others and thus after making some progress, they too join the group

X and make regular posts. In this way it is beneficial to everyone.

So kindly consider these points.

 

 

 

Your Servant Always,

Sumeet.

[Guest guest]

Dear devotees

 

I suggest we try starting Vedanta threads right here, and see how they go. If

Jai and others are not satisfied, then the new site may be a better option.

 

ys

Gerald Surya

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna!

 

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

I think I speak for many of the 'Y' group of devotees [as suggested by Sumeet

prabhu : ) ], when I say that although we do not contribute much (if anything

at all) to this forum, we nonetheless learn so much from everyone else that

does [the 'X' group of devotees].

 

It is for this reason that I feel it would be a real shame if this forum were

abolished. If the senior devotees leave this forum by moving away to the other

proposed forum, where else can we go to learn/observe discussion about the finer

and/or more technical details of our philosophy?

 

Regardless of what happens, this forum is very much a credit to Krishna-Susurla

prabhu, who gives much of his time, effort & experience to this project.

 

Thank you.

 

your servant,

 

janak rajani

 

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[Guest guest]

achintya, "sumeet1981" <sumeet1981> wrote:

 

> Krishna prabhu i guess in some or the other way we have failed to

> meet something Jai Simman prabhu wanted.

>

>

> Please refer to post 276 on this list. Thats the first post by him.

>

>

> Is there any particular Vedantic discussion that is systematically

> followed

> on this list ?

> I am very new here and hence not well exposed to the contents

> hitherto

> presented here.

>

> My humble suggestion, if this has not been implemented here, would

to

> systematically..................".

 

Don't get me wrong; I think the idea is a good one. It's just that

this was more or less the charter reason why we created Achintya. I

also would like to see some systematic discussions of Srila

Prabhupada's books along Vedanta lines. The trouble is, it takes

people who are willing to do it... it's not enough for me or any

other moderator to say, "ok, let's discuss this now." As one member

observed, it tends to be the case that the smarter devotees are also

the humbler ones, and thus they may not feel inclined to participate.

Aside from this, many of us who want to have these discussions are

busily engaged in material karmas... we're part-time devotees at

best. So putting that all together, you can see why it's difficult to

sustain a hair-splitting, rigorous discussion along any philosophical

lines.

 

One idea that appeals to me, though, is that the proposed forum would

*not* be moderated by me. Thus, if I were to participate in it, I

would not have to moderate also. This makes it less awkward for me to

participate in discussions, since I tend to be a frequent

contributor, even though I moderate with an iron fist. :-)

 

But as I said before, I doubt I could split my attention between

moderating one forum and participating in another, especially with

the numerous other demands on my time. It's not so much that I

would 'dissolve' Achintya; rather I can forsee becoming gradually

more and more detached from it if I were to participate in Jai

Simman's new group, resulting in Achintya being less actively

moderated. Above and beyond this, if the Vedanta discussions left

Achintya, then the list would become obsolete as far as I'm

concerned, which would make me feel less interested in maintaining

it. I suppose I could just turn the reins over to someone else in

that case. Anyway, I could be wrong, too.

 

> Jai Simman sir, i don't wanna name but i guess i know which

devotees

> you will be inviting from here. Rather than having all of us at a

> new place, please invite your friends to this forum.

 

I would also second this. At least, as a preliminary step, before you

decide that another forum would be a better option, consider inviting

friends here. You don't need my permission to tell someone about

joining Achintya. We have some great contributors here and I would

love to see more join.

 

> Furthermore some of those Y attentively read the posts made by

> others and thus after making some progress, they too join the group

> X and make regular posts. In this way it is beneficial to everyone.

> So kindly consider these points.

 

Yes, this is precisely one of the reasons why I opened up Achintya to

the public. Although it does mean that from time to time I have to

deal with some weird people, most of the time I deal with it behind

the scenes and no one has to put up with any nonsense. On the other

hand, I suspect there are plenty of devotees who are new to the

philosophy who benefit from reading the discussions. I know I got a

lot of benefit when I was younger from watching older and smarter

devotees debate philosophy on the 'net.

 

I think we would be losing something by trying (even inadvertently)

to insulate the "intellectual" devotees from the rest of the devotee

community. Please do consider that. Whatever happens, I wish you well

in your efforts.

 

yours,

 

K

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004, Janak Rajani wrote:

> It is for this reason that I feel it would be a real shame if this forum

> were abolished. 

 

I'm happy with Achintya as it is.

 

 

 

> Regardless of what happens, this forum is very much a credit to

> Krishna-Susurla prabhu, who gives much of his time, effort &

> experience to this project.

 

Yes, he deserves our thanks.

 

MDd

[Guest guest]

Dear Devotees,

 

Hare Krishna.

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

How are all of you ?

 

I am happy to see so many comments made about my posting regarding the

Gaudiya Bhaktivedanta portal.

This shows that many of us are sufficiently interested in this venture in

one way or another. Let me reply

to some of the pertinent points raised: -

 

The Achintya list has done an excellent job in facilitating credible

discussion on many issues affecting the Gaudiya Vaishnava Sampradaya. Many

thanks to Hari Krishna Susarla Prabhu for his efficient management of the

list. In fact, the discussions present on this list have contributed to my

desire to create a portal for Gaudiya Vedanta. My intention for a Vedanta

portal however is in no way linked to any dissatisfaction with the

discussions on the Achintya list. The present reality with the Achintya list

is that it has become a general list with many topics being discussed

ranging from our perspective on organ transplant to the correctness of the

Saraswata Sampradaya vs the Babajis, etc. Initially, the Achintya list was

the btg list. Many new comers and others with various questions ranging from

the basics

to the intricate send postings to this forum.

 

There are basically 2 types of lists. One is a general forum which serves as

a meeting point for many random queries that emerge while we execute the

process of Krishna Consciousness. Such a list type is always required to

trigger interest and function as a conduit to relay interested persons to

more specific discussion groups that very intensely discuss the issue of

concern. The other is a more focused scholastic forum with very specific

objectives, coupled with an elaborate library, discussion forum and the

development of a framework in fulfilment of the specified objects.

Such a forum will not seek to bring in other topics of concern besides the

particular focus field of study, owing to the very serious and intense

endeavour required of that field.

 

My proposed portal is of the second type. It will not cover any other issue

related to Gaudiya sadhana. It shall only seek to understand the Vedanta

darshana as seen through the eyes of our Acharyas. This is because as

indicated many times previously, there is a general misunderstanding that

our line lacks in Vedantic content. Interested devotees do not have a

specialist forum in which such concerns may be addressed. There are no

significant online libraries of our Poorvacharyas' works in this regard.

What we need is an extremely focused list very specific to such study, in

which every discussion is recorded and made cogent. Further to this, we also

wish to evolve a catechist framework that best answers many pertinent

questions related to Gaudiya Vedanta. This is essentially a project for the

establishment of a proper and rigorous presentation solely related to

Gaudiya Bhaktivedanta. It will not deal with any other issue.

 

The ideal of course would be to have a powerful portal that houses both

specific issues of sadhana and siddhanta with more generic concerns. If the

envisaged portal evolves to a credible point, we may consider integrating

the Gaudiya Vedanta portal with other portals of close content association.

I also have in mind www.gaudiyabhaktisiddhanta.com which will host the more

general aspects of our sadhana and siddhanta. So, in my humble opinion,

apart from the Vedantic aspect of the Achintya list, which is just one issue

being discussed, other aspects can remain pertinent and keep the list

running. The nature of the proposed portal will be very different from the

Achintya list and its more general tone. There may be some devotees who may

not be inclined towards participating in a rigorous Vedantic forum. And yet

there may be others who want more rigour and specialisation of content. I am

catering to the latter. Susarla Prabhu may have envisaged the Achintya list

as a specific forum for Vedantic discussion but the present situation is

indicating a more varied and general forum with many other issues coming

into the picture. This is possibly owing to a very liberal membership policy

that allows most devotees to come and seek answers to their many doubts.

Some of them may not even know owing to their preference of sadhana focus,

what is going on with the jiva soul and its origin and Vedanta darshana and

Visishtadvaita, Achintya bedha abedha, etc. They may wish to know more about

the Holy Names or how to offer a simple arati, etc. or relate concerns

related to organ transplants, etc. But the vedanta portal envisaged will

only be for those who want to make a concerted effort to seriously study and

help establish Vedantic culture within the Bhaktivedanta Sampradaya. This

will be an intra-family portal. Once the family is well-established to

handle queries from others, then it will adopt a more open policy with

regards to membership, by way of exposing and defending our line as well as

enriching our own understanding of the siddhanta.

 

Therefore, my humble effort is driven by a motivation based on the very

specific and exclusive focus required of a study of Vedanta darshana. There

is no discontent or a desire to duplicate or emulate an existing forum. The

Achintya list will always remain relevant because it is the gateway to

further exploration. It has been the vital trigger that encourages many

projects. The Sampradaya as a whole is wider than a Vedantic study circle

and Achintya represents the former. Gaudiya Bhaktivedanta will represent a

micro focus group strengthening a particular channel so that the

sampradaya's general siddhantic credibility is further bolstered. Functional

differences do not indicate dissatisfaction as a reason for the emergence of

new ventures.

 

Hare Krishna

 

 

your servant,

r. jai simman

singapore

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna.

 

A couple of quick points:

 

1) Achintya was *not* formerly the BTG list. Actually, I created

Achintya for a select few devotees so that we could have discussions

which we could not have had on BTG.

 

2) It was only later when Vijay Pai could no longer moderate BTG,

that we merged it back into Achintya. Same membership, but a

different set of rules and a different moderator, at least initially.

 

3) Over the years, people have joined and left, and the membership of

Achintya bears little resemblance to that of either of its parent

lists. The moderation hasn't changed much though - it still reflects

my ideas about how the list should function rather than the thinking

behind BTG-talk.

 

I thank everyone for the generous praise, but alas, I don't feel

qualified to receive it... please don't praise me, lest you have to

see more displays of false humility (like this one). This body of

mine is so fragile that if you pat its back, the head grows

bigger...

 

I'll regret it if Achintya loses some of the philosophical

discussions to another forum elsewhere, but I bear no grudge. I've

already indicated why I personally think a new forum will not sit

well with me at this point. Everyone has said everything they have to

say on that subject, and I don't think there is any point to

belaboring it further here. If it happens, then let it happen. Let's

just see how things go and not worry about it.

 

yours,

 

K