vaisnava-aparadha

[Guest guest]

Dear devotees,

Please accept my humble obeisacnes. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

I was thinking about Vaisnava-aparadha. We have many instructions

warning us of destructive power of Vaisnava-aparadha. The "topmost"

instructions, I think, is that given by Viswanatha Cakravartipad in

"Madhurya-kadambini". He says, that either one criticises

mahabhagavata or a devotee, who doesn't have all the qualities of a

vaisnava, -- there's no matter. In both cases vaisnava-aparadha is

there.

 

So -- don't critisise even kanistha-adhikaris.

 

Moreover, have that "api cet su-duracaro..." verse. So after all that

one can fancy that: if somebody chant Hare Krsna -- he's a Vaisnava,

so one shouldn't critisise him. We mustsn't critisise even those who

deviate, because of that "api cet su-duracaro..." verse. And they are

chanting Hare Krsna after all...

 

On the other hand that doesn't seem to be perfect understanding.

Because we also have instructions that tell us, for example, to leave

guru, if he deviates ("Harinama-cintamani"). We also have a story of

Chota Haridasa who was rejected by Chaitanya Mahaprabhu for just a

lusty look at a woman.

 

So I wanted to ask to things: 1) It'd be good to know more instruction

of the second type. I mean those instructions, telling us how to deal

with one who deviates. 2) Is a Vaisnava who deviates still a vaisnava?

(The case is: he deviates, but he chants Hare Krsna.) 3) Just an

example from a real life: Kirtanananda Swami. He chants Maha-mantra and

he seems to be a devotee. Does that mean that one who says about his

past misdeeds committs aparadha? 4) Where's that thin line between a

kanistha-adhikari or a repenting devotee and one who really deviates?

One, of whom we can say, "He's a pretender and he's abhakta!"?

 

Because actully one has to learn to desriminate between devotees and

non-devotees in a devotee's dress. If he wouldn't learn, then he might

be misled. Isn't it? After all, one can look at Srila Gour Govinda

Maharaja's books and see how strict he was and how strong his words

were about "fallen" gurus. He also warns us against

gaddalika-srota-nyaya, the logic of sheep flock. But it sometimes

seems to me that if you don't follow that nyaya, then whatever you say

will be vaisnava-aparadha. :-( Just remember the discussion that was

going on in this conference some months ago. The discussion about

near-beer drinks. If you say something like, "Your guru's drinking

near-beer stuff -- you should leave him" (according sastra), then

you'll probably hear some nonsense like, "Do you think Maharaja

doesn't know what he can and cannot do?! He's a pure devotee and you

cannot understand his actions! From pure devotee Krsna will accept

everything -- even near-beer drink!"

 

--

Your servant,

Dennis. dennis_s

[cbrahma]

In my association with vaisnavas I have found offenses to be numerous. What is supposed to happen as a result? Are these people supposed to stop in their path? Leave the temple? I have seen no observable results. The most offensive often maintain high positions.

 

 

Dear devotees,

Please accept my humble obeisacnes. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

So -- don't critisise even kanistha-adhikaris.

 

 

--

Your servant,

Dennis. dennis_s

[Nitai108]

Please accept my respectful Obeisances, All glories to Srila Prabhupada, All glories to Iskcon guru Vrinda

 

 

 

The Gurus first duty according to Sastra is to chastise his disciple, we should not consider this Vaisnava Aparadha! The Guru must find fault. That fault finding is done out of love and compassion for the disciple and the Guru is hoping to help his Sisya to get free from these impediments that block Him from serving the Lord properley.

 

What distinguishes Vaisnava Aparadha from other fault findings and criticism is the underlying mood. If there is envy in the fault finding, belittling of another devotee, hate, etc then that is Vaisnava Aparadha.

 

Vaisnava aparadha is so devastating that a topmost Pure devotee can fall down if his diciples commit Vaisnava Aparadha.

[cbrahma]

Are you saying that all these critical 'vaisnavas' are gurus? That's preposterous. What adds insult to injury is the impersonal attitude of these so-called vaisnavas (from now on I will use the acronym SCV to designate pseudo-devotees) is that fault-finding is the only attention they give most people.

 

 

 

Please accept my respectful Obeisances, All glories to Srila Prabhupada, All glories to Iskcon guru Vrinda

 

 

 

The Gurus first duty according to Sastra is to chastise his disciple, we should not consider this Vaisnava Aparadha! The Guru must find fault. That fault finding is done out of love and compassion for the disciple and the Guru is hoping to help his Sisya to get free from these impediments that block Him from serving the Lord properley.

 

What distinguishes Vaisnava Aparadha from other fault findings and criticism is the underlying mood. If there is envy in the fault finding, belittling of another devotee, hate, etc then that is Vaisnava Aparadha.

 

Vaisnava aparadha is so devastating that a topmost Pure devotee can fall down if his diciples commit Vaisnava Aparadha.