mundane view of Vaishnava otherworldliness

[Guest guest]

The claim that Vaishnavism embodies the eternal and only function of the

jiva soul in his eternal state of perfect rational existence may appear at

first sight to be opposed to the experience of this world. Vaishnavism is no

doubt represented by a vast and varied literature in almost all the

languages of India and all persons are in a position to appreciate more or

less the devotional fervor and aesthetic quality that are the special

characteristics of this literature. But in spite of the admitted sweetness,

gentleness, beauty and fervor that permeate every part of Vaishnava

literature and make it, in the opinion of many competent persons, perhaps

the most glorious heritage of India, there seems to be lacking any

historical evidence to prove that the community professing Vaishnava faith

has been able to attain any signal, social, political or economic success.

On the contrary there are not wanting hostile critics who do not hesitate to

regard Vaishnavism in some of its forms as a main cause of the backwardness

of India which they attribute to the influence of Vaishnava teachings and

practices involving, in their opinion, the virtual denial of the ordinary

principles of moral life as well as the most elementary needs of advanced

material civilization. The apostles of Puritanism and Activism are not

likely to accept a creed which may be suspected of a partiality for

sexuality, passivism, childish ceremonial and credulity and which declares

all secular effort whether moral, social, political or philanthropic as

utterly powerless for the amelioration of the lot of man nay which regards

them as the root cause of all the troubles that afflict this miserable

world.

 

>From the writings of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasavati

[Guest guest]

maharaj,

 

hare krishna. please accept my humble obeisances.

 

it is agreed that without krishna, mundane activities dont have

purpose. there is no basis even for dharma. and when krishna is the

purpose of one's life durachara is anyway destroyed. if we can

constantly have krishna as the sole purpose 24 X 7, then we are most

fortunate. in such a context the statements by srila bhakti siddhanta

prabhupada would make sense.

 

but all neophyte devotees go through ups and downs in krishna

consciousness. some times we will also be very offensive just like a

drowning man when lifted from the whirlpool will spit on the person

who is trying to save him or pull him also down or a patient beating

the doctor. when they are in their kc down time, they should be

engaged in acts of charity & commitment to mundane duties, while in

parallel rekindling their krishna consciousness.

 

this will help the movement because there will be better commitment

to truthfulness, honesty, integrity, proper non-exploitative conduct

towards other people who take shelter of the movement etc. while

dharma by itself is not great, it does have a temporal value and in a

relative sphere superior to adharma.

[Guest guest]

I'm really not sure what this response has to do with the original

posting by H.H. Bhaki Vikas Swami. I daresay it has nothing to do

with it. The posting was a quote by Srila Bhaktisiddhanata Saraswati,

commenting on the tendency of religious hypocrites to denounce

Vaishnavism on the basis of its starkly anti-materialistic stance. On

this point, it tends to fall under the criticism of so-called

religionists who still embrace material enjoyment in one way or

another.

 

Rather than acknowledging that, this response seems to say that well,

yes being transcendental is nice and good, but still be engaged in

mundane pious activites in your "Krishna-conscious down time"

(whatever that means). At best this response just missed the point

and is completely irrelevant.

 

achintya, "v_raja_ram" <v_raja_ram> wrote:

 

> but all neophyte devotees go through ups and downs in krishna

> consciousness. some times we will also be very offensive just like

a

> drowning man when lifted from the whirlpool will spit on the person

> who is trying to save him or pull him also down or a patient

beating

> the doctor.

 

Or an outsider with minimal historical knowledge of our sampradAya

claiming that KrishnadAsa KavirAja falsified Lord Chaitanya's

biography.....

 

when they are in their kc down time, they should be

> engaged in acts of charity & commitment to mundane duties, while in

> parallel rekindling their krishna consciousness.

 

No, this is not the Gaudiiya point of view at all. Mundane duties are

just that - mundane. They are a source of bondage if not dedicated to

the service of Lord Krishna. Mundane duties should not be resorted to

at all -- rather, they should be dovetailed in Krishna's service

always. Hence:

 

yat karoShi yad ashnAsi yaj juhoShi dadAsi yat |

yat tapasyasi kaunteya tat kuruShva madarpaNam || gItA 9.27 ||

 

Whatever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you offer or give away,

and whatever austerities you perform — do that, O son of Kuntî, as an

offering to Me. (bhagavad-gItA 9.27)

 

and

 

dharmaH svanuShThitaH puMsAM viShvaksenakathAsu yaH |

notpAdayed yadi ratiM shrama eva hi kevalam || bhA 1.2.8 ||

 

The occupational activities a man performs according to his own

position are only so much useless labor if they do not provoke

attraction for the message of the Personality of Godhead. (shrImad-

bhAgavatam 1.2.8)

 

> this will help the movement because there will be better commitment

> to truthfulness, honesty, integrity, proper non-exploitative

conduct

> towards other people who take shelter of the movement etc. while

> dharma by itself is not great, it does have a temporal value and in

a

> relative sphere superior to adharma.

 

A person striving to develop Krishna-consciousness automatically

cultivates the virtues mentioned above. There is no need to make a

separate endeavor for them. In fact, it is not unfair to say that if

a person is not developing the virtues above in his sAdhana, then he

probably is not cultivating Krishna-consciousness properly.

 

There seems to be no shortage of individuals with bad qualities who

take up Vaishnavism while still maintaining those bad qualities. We

need not prescribe an invalid, alternate process for them. Rather, we

should tell them to take the pill according to the doctor's original

prescription.

 

yours,

 

K