Guest guest Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 > Thus is it that lord assumes forms which is both material and spiritual > and thus the perception varies between the seer and demons? The Lord is only spiritual but the perception of demons is material. At the Deity installation in LA Srila Prabhupada said: And if you think it is a brass-made doll, I mean to say, idol... Ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham [bg. 4.11]. If you think this is a brass-made idol, then it will remain a brass-made idol to you forever. But if you elevate yourself to higher platform of Krsna consciousness, then Krsna, this Krsna, will talk with you. This Krsna will talk with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 sahasra koti pranams maharaj, Thanx a lot for the reply. I completely accept lord is always transcendental and unctouched by material modes. However i have little more doubt wrt this. If duryodhana saw krsna as an ordinary man,then it reflects the idea that lord assumes material form for demons ,otherwise duryodhana would have seen one (neither Lord not a normal man). Thus is it that avatar has minimum 2 aspects of forms: 1.Material one for demons 2.Spiritual for devotees Thanx Dasan Rajagopal Jayaraman Bhakti Vikasa Swami <Bhakti.Vikasa.Swami wrote: > Thus is it that lord assumes forms which is both material and spiritual > and thus the perception varies between the seer and demons? The Lord is only spiritual but the perception of demons is material. At the Deity installation in LA Srila Prabhupada said: And if you think it is a brass-made doll, I mean to say, idol... Ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham [bg. 4.11]. If you think this is a brass-made idol, then it will remain a brass-made idol to you forever. But if you elevate yourself to higher platform of Krsna consciousness, then Krsna, this Krsna, will talk with you. This Krsna will talk with you. Achintya Homepage: achintya DISCLAIMER: All postings appearing on Achintya are the property of their authors, and they may not be cross-posted to other forums without prior approval by said authors. Views expressed in Achintya postings are those of their authors only, and are not necessarily endorsed by the moderator or spiritual leaders of the Gaudiiya school. achintya/ achintya The all-new My – Get yours free! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 "And yet Lord Krsna as He is appears once every twenty-four hours of Brahma's time (or after a lapse of 8,640,000,000 solar years) in each and every universe, and all His transcendental pastimes are displayed in each and every universe in a routine spool. But in that routine spool the functions of Lord Krsna, Lord Vasudeva, etc. are complex problems for the layman. There is no difference between the Lord's Self and the Lord's transcendental body. The expansions execute different activities. When the Lord, however, appears in His person as Lord Sri Krsna, His other plenary portions also join in Him by His inconceivable potency called yogamaya, and thus the Lord Krsna of Vrndavana is different from the Lord Krsna of Mathura or the Lord Krsna of Dvaraka. The virat-rupa of Lord Krsna is also different from Him, by His inconceivable potency. The virat-rupa exhibited on the Battlefield of Kuruksetra is the material conception of His form. Therefore, it should be understood that when Lord Krsna was apparently killed by the bow and arrow of the hunter, the Lord left His so-called material body in the material world. The Lord is kaivalya, and for Him there is no difference between matter and spirit because everything is created from Him. Therefore His quitting one sort of body or accepting another body does not mean that He is like the ordinary living being. All such activities are simultaneously one and different by His inconceivable potency...That the Lord left His body means that He left again His plenary portions in the respective dhamas (transcendental abodes), as He left His virat-rupa in the material world. (SB 1.14.9 purport by ACBSP) So it appears that just as the demoniac can see the form of the Deity--seeing matter, the devotee can see the same Deity -- seeing spirit. Everything is possible for Krsna. He can transform matter to spirit and vice versa without any difficulty. Rupa-vilasa dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2005 Report Share Posted January 13, 2005 Krsna is always transcendental so any material conception of Him is actually maya. Similarly an atheist may see a devotee as a fool in illusion but the reverse is actually true. When we awaken from a dream we realize the whole experience to be fictitious so the demons are dreaming that they have become God and in that state everything is distorted out of shape. Prabhupada gives the example of a beggar wearing a crown declaring himself a king but he isn't actually a king only Krsna is the real king and this is reality. Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail./mail_250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 pranams, We know demons do see the lord.If we say it is illusion ,then all lilas with repsect to lord killing becomes an Illusion again(we may say there is no killing in goloka,still BG says Krsna destroys demons). I jus got an example to what i had asked... ravan kidnapped"MAYA" sita,since demon can not have access to divine things. So can we simply say that lord also appears to exhibit such a type of "MAYA" form for demons to access? However the example of hiranyakashipu and nrsingha seems not to explain this concept of "MAYA" form as an aspect of avatar since the killing is what the main theme of this avatar. wade onthenet <wadeonthenet wrote: Krsna is always transcendental so any material conception of Him is actually maya. Similarly an atheist may see a devotee as a fool in illusion but the reverse is actually true. When we awaken from a dream we realize the whole experience to be fictitious so the demons are dreaming that they have become God and in that state everything is distorted out of shape. Prabhupada gives the example of a beggar wearing a crown declaring himself a king but he isn't actually a king only Krsna is the real king and this is reality. Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail./mail_250 Achintya Homepage: achintya DISCLAIMER: All postings appearing on Achintya are the property of their authors, and they may not be cross-posted to other forums without prior approval by said authors. Views expressed in Achintya postings are those of their authors only, and are not necessarily endorsed by the moderator or spiritual leaders of the Gaudiiya school. achintya/ achintya Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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