material and spiritual form

[Guest guest]

I am resending this earlier posting as a response to the idea that the Lord

can not have a form of matter (at least apparently). Would someone like to

explain this passage?

 

 

> "And yet Lord Krsna as He is appears once every twenty-four hours of

> Brahma's time (or after a lapse of 8,640,000,000 solar years) in each and

> every universe, and all His transcendental pastimes are displayed in each

> and every universe in a routine spool. But in that routine spool the

> functions of Lord Krsna, Lord Vasudeva, etc. are complex problems for the

> layman. There is no difference between the Lord's Self and the Lord's

> transcendental body. The expansions execute different activities. When the

> Lord, however, appears in His person as Lord Sri Krsna, His other plenary

> portions also join in Him by His inconceivable potency called yogamaya,

and

> thus the Lord Krsna of Vrndavana is different from the Lord Krsna of

Mathura

> or the Lord Krsna of Dvaraka. The virat-rupa of Lord Krsna is also

different

> from Him, by His inconceivable potency. The virat-rupa exhibited on the

> Battlefield of Kuruksetra is the material conception of His form.

Therefore,

> it should be understood that when Lord Krsna was apparently killed by the

> bow and arrow of the hunter, the Lord left His so-called material body in

> the material world. The Lord is kaivalya, and for Him there is no

difference

> between matter and spirit because everything is created from Him.

Therefore

> His quitting one sort of body or accepting another body does not mean that

> He is like the ordinary living being. All such activities are

simultaneously

> one and different by His inconceivable potency...That the Lord left His

body

> means that He left again His plenary portions in the respective dhamas

> (transcendental abodes), as He left His virat-rupa in the material world.

>

> (SB 1.14.9 purport by ACBSP)

>

> So it appears that just as the demoniac can see the form of the

> Deity--seeing matter, the devotee can see the same Deity -- seeing spirit.

> Everything is possible for Krsna. He can transform matter to spirit and

vice

> versa without any difficulty.

>

> Rupa-vilasa dasa

>

[Guest guest]

"And yet Lord Krsna as He is appears once every twenty-four hours of

Brahma's time (or after a lapse of 8,640,000,000 solar years) in each and

every universe, and all His transcendental pastimes are displayed in each

and every universe in a routine spool. But in that routine spool the

functions of Lord Krsna, Lord Vasudeva, etc. are complex problems for the

layman. There is no difference between the Lord's Self and the Lord's

transcendental body. The expansions execute different activities. When the

Lord, however, appears in His person as Lord Sri Krsna, His other plenary

portions also join in Him by His inconceivable potency called yogamaya, and

thus the Lord Krsna of Vrndavana is different from the Lord Krsna of

Mathura or the Lord Krsna of Dvaraka. The virat-rupa of Lord Krsna is also

different from Him, by His inconceivable potency. The virat-rupa exhibited

on the Battlefield of Kuruksetra is the material conception of His form.

Therefore, it should be understood that when Lord Krsna was apparently

killed by the bow and arrow of the hunter, the Lord left His so-called

material body in the material world. The Lord is kaivalya, and for Him there

is no difference between matter and spirit because everything is created

from Him. Therefore His quitting one sort of body or accepting another body

does not mean that He is like the ordinary living being. All such activities

are simultaneously one and different by His inconceivable potency...That the

Lord left His body means that He left again His plenary portions in the

respective dhamas (transcendental abodes), as He left His virat-rupa in the

material world."

 

(SB 1.14.9 purport by ACBSP)

 

I really think that the above quote reconciles the various arguments we have

heard. We know from Brahma-samhita and many other places in

Srimad-bhagavatam, other Puranas etc. that Krsna's spiritual form cannot be

perceived by those who are not situated in love of God. See Brahma-samhita

text 38 and purport. On the other hand, the Lord mercifully arranges to

appear before us as the Deity, as the Holy Name, as prasadam, etc. He

utilizes the material elements so that we can perceive him without having

the qualification of being situated in unalloyed bhakti. However, by His

agreeing to appear as elements, He has not become matter although He appears

to do so. But by utilizing matter He becomes visible to us, and the effect

of His presence is nondifferent than when He appears to the pure souls. The

pure souls, however, see the eternal spiritual form of the Lord by His

inconceivable potency and their pure devotion.

 

"Nowadays also the devotees see Him in Braja in their hearts, saturated with

devotion although they do not see Him with their eyes. The eye of devotion

is nothing but the eye of the pure unalloyed spiritual self of the jeeva.

The Form of Krishna is visible to that eye in proportion to its purification

by the practice of devotion. When the devotion of the neophyte reaches the

stage of bhava-bhakti, the pure eye of that devotee is tinged with the salve

of love by the Grace of Krishna, which enables him to see Krishna face to

face. The phrase "in their hearts: means Krishna is visible in proportion as

their hearts are purified by the practice of devotion. The sum and substance

of this shloka is that the Form of Krishna...is not a mental concoction, but

is Transcendental, and is visible to the eye of the soul of the devotee

under trance." (Brahma-samhita purport text 38)

 

The reason that SP (in the quote at the top) says that Krsna's form that He

left in the material world is called "so-called material body" is that when

Krsna appears, His presence is completely spiritual whether He appears as

matter or in His original spiritual form. We are able to detect its

spirituality in proportion to our devotion. I think this is the appropriate

conclusion. Krsna's presence as matter or spirit is never mundane.

 

Rupa-vilasa dasa