Guru-tattva and Shiva-tattva

[Guest guest]

Dear Prabhus,

Humble obeisances. Jaya Srila Prabhupada.

 

I've been through all the threads I could find on Lord Shiva's

ontological position (as gunavatara & as Sadaashiva). Frankly, they

left me a little confused. But before I rehash a hackneyed question,

the first question below wasn't dealt with in those threads. I would

appreciate it if devotees could clarify:

 

1) What exactly is Guru-tattva? What is the relationship between

Shiva-tattva and Guru-tattva? I've heard Guru-tattva being

identified with Sankarshana, and also sometimes with Shiva. I've

also seen an identity relationship being expressed between

Sadaashiva and Sankarshana. Can someone clarify?

 

2) I still cannot understand how a pariNaama kind of relationship

can exist between Vishnu-tattva and Shiva-tattva, while keeping the

doctrine of immutability of Brahman in tact.

 

Thanks in advance. Hare Krishna.

[Guest guest]

achintya, "webasura" <rind_19> wrote:

 

> 2) I still cannot understand how a pariNaama kind of relationship

> can exist between Vishnu-tattva and Shiva-tattva, while keeping the

> doctrine of immutability of Brahman in tact.

>

 

I'm certainly no expert, but I thought the concept of "transformation"

is simply being used to illustrate the *relationship* between Vishnu

and Shiva. In other words, not that Vishnu literally "transforms" into

Shiva (both Sadaashiva and Vishnu being eternal), but rather that

Shiva, being neither Vishnu nor jiiva, is like a "transformed" Vishnu

or in other words a unique entity in an in-between position.

 

Again, that is merely my opinion. It could be just speculation on my

part, too.

[Guest guest]

Pranams

 

 

 

Hare are some of my notes on Siva tattva that might be interesting for u. Hare

krishna.

 

 

 

ARd

 

 

 

# When rAm was worshipping Siva near sea-side before going to lankA, He gave

Lord Siva, the name -- rAmeSvara. hanumAn asked the purport of the name. Lord

rAm said:

 

 

 

rAmasya ISvarah, sah rAmeSvara |

 

 

 

He, who is the Lord of rAm, is rAmeSvara.

 

 

 

Lord Siva was watching all this from kailASa. When he heard the meaning of

rAmeSvara given by rAmchandra, he laughed mildly. pArvati devI was sitting

beside Him, she asked why He was laughing. Lord Siva said, look at the lIlA of

the Supreme Lord, what games he plays with his devotees. Now he has made his

servant, his master by changing the meaning of rAmeSvara. pArvati devI asked,

then what is the meaning of rAmeSvara. Lord Siva said:

 

 

 

rAma yasya ISvarah, sah rAmeSvara |

 

 

 

He, whose Lord is rAma, is rAmeSvarah

 

 

 

# from Brahma Vaivarta Purana in relation to Lord Siva.

 

 

 

"Lord Siva is said to be a portion of Lord Krishna and arise out of the left

side of Krshna's body.

 

 

 

"vAmarddhAGgo mahAdevo

dakSiNo gopikApatiH"

 

 

 

The left half became Siva and the right became the Husband of Gopis.

 

He is dearly loved by Krishna.

 

 

 

The BVP says it is sin to slander Siva, Who is dearer to Krishna than His own

life.

 

Krishna Himself declares:

 

 

 

"Among my favorites Brahma is dear to Me.

 

Lakshmi, ever residing on my chest, is dearer than Brahma.

 

Radha is yet dearer, and my devotees are dearer still.

 

Dearest of all is Shankara (Siva); no one is dearer than He.

 

My heart resides with my devotees, My life with Radha.

 

My Self with Sankara, who is dearer than My life."

 

 

 

THERE IS THE ORIGINAL SIVA IN SIVALOKA AND...

 

 

 

This abode of Lord Siva’s is not a creation of Maya. In Sivaloka there is no

unhappiness. That world is attained by the best of Lord Siva’s devotees - the

ones who understand him to be non-different from Sri Krsna - not the Saivites

who are karmis or jnanis or who worship Lord Siva as an independent supreme

controller.

 

 

 

The followers of Lord Siva whom Naarada saw on Sivaloka were all great Vaisnavas

who deeply imbibed their master's mood of visnu-bhakti. Lord Siva praised them

for their artistic accompaniment, especially his consort Paarvati for

herhand-clapping, because their performance was manifested directly from pure

devotion.

 

 

 

(Source unknown - somebody know it?)

 

 

>From Laghu Bhagavatamrita

28 Siva appears in eleven forms and eight forms. Generally he has ten arms and

five heads, with three eyes on each head.

27 The scriptures explain that, as Brahma is, so Siva is sometimes a jiva soul

and sometimes an amsa-avatara like Lord Sesa.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

>the concept of "transformation"

> is simply being used to illustrate the *relationship* between Vishnu

> and Shiva. In other words, not that Vishnu literally "transforms"

into

> Shiva

 

That makes sense. Is this relationship between Vishnu and Sadaashiva,

or between Vishnu and the GuNaavatara Shiva? How is Sadaashiva related

to Sankarshana? And how does "Guru-tattva" figure in all of this?

 

Hare Krishna.