forwarded query re Gita 2.2

[Guest guest]

The following query was sent to me. Anyone?

 

> Please refer to Bhagavad Gita 2.2. In the translation, I think the

> translation of "visame samupasthitam" is missing. I thought that if the

> mistake was made by the disciples of Prabhupad, it would have been

> corrected long time ago. However, if Prabhupad made the mistake then i

> wonder how a liberated soul could fall victim to the 4 defects of all

> conditioned souls. I know that Prabhupad had no qualified proof readers to

> help him and he produced the books despite great difficulties, yet my

> doubt remains as to how a pure soul could make a mistake.

[Guest guest]

Pranams,

Quote from Srila prabhupada himself on this topic

 

Whether one is sadhana siddha, kripa sidha, or nitya siddha the important word

is siddha. This was Srila Prabhupada's opinion. When he himself was asked about

his own status as a siddha by Tamal Krsna Goswami, Prabhupada wrote, "A

Spiritual Master is always liberated. In any condition of his life he should not

be mistaken as ordinary human being. This position of a Spiritual Master is

achieved by three processes. One is called sadhana siddha. That means one who is

liberated by executing the regulative principle of devotional service. Another

is krpa siddha, one who is liberated by the mercy of Krsna or his devotee. And

another is nitya siddha who is never forgetful of Krsna throughout his whole

life. These are the three features of the perfection of life.

So far Narada Muni is concerned, in his previous life he was a maidservant's

son, but by the mercy of the devotees he later on became siddha and next life.

He appeared as Narada with complete freedom to move anywhere by the grace of the

Lord. So even though he was in his previous life a maidservant's son there was

no impediment in the achievement of his perfect spiritual life. Similarly any

living entity who is conditioned can achieve the perfectional stage of life by

the above mentioned processes and the vivid example is Narada Muni. So I do

not know why you have asked about my previous life. Whether I was subjected to

the laws of material nature? So, even though accepting that I was subjected to

the laws of material nature, does it hamper in my becoming Spiritual Master?

What is your opinion? From the life of Narada Muni it is distinct that although

he was a conditioned soul in his previous life, there was no impediment of his

becoming the Spiritual Master. So far I am

concerned, I cannot say what I was in my previous life, but one great

astrologer calculated that I was previously a physician and my life was sinless.

Besides that, to corroborate the statement of Bhagavad-gita, "sucinam srimatam

gehe yogabhrasta bijayate,'' which means an unfinished yogi takes birth in rich

family or born of a suci or pious father. By the grace of Krsna I got these two

opportunities in the present life to be born of a pious father and brought up in

one of the richest, aristocratic families of Calcutta (Kasinath Mullick). The

Radha Krsna Deity in this family called me to meet him, and therefore last time

when I was in Calcutta, I stayed in that temple along with my American

disciples. Although I had immense opportunities to indulge in the four

principles of sinful life because I was connected with a very aristocratic

family, Krsna always saved me, and throughout my whole life I do not know what

is illicit sex, intoxication, meat-eating, or gambling. So far my

present life is concerned, I do not remember any part of my life when I was

forgetful of Krsna."

 

My understanding:

 

I am very unclear how to claim a soul as nithya sidha or not.. it would simply

be impossible for a conditioned soul to judge unless there are direct sastric

statements.

 

 

Thus i feel there is nothing missed by followers of Prabhupada or they lack

nothing jus because Srila prabhupada was wrong in his expedition to MOON theory

or he quoted a verse wrongly etc or any other such details.

What matters would be the purpose and the intent of the authour which would

purify the readers and guide them back home .

 

Also i understand that it would have beenn a tough job for editors since most

of srila prabhupada's work are voative i.e he dictated them all and they were

typed by the disciples.

 

Thanx

 

PS: i have removed the quoted texts

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

I remember reading a conversation about this with Srila B.R. Sridhar

Maharaj, who spoke about apparent "mistakes", as well as the

apparent "slander" that true gurus often use. They do so for many

reasons, one of them being to "SHOO AWAY THE CROWS." Crows refers to

those who are too attached to their preconceived notions

of "perfection", in the material or moralistic sense. (I also read a

similar explanation by some popular Sikh/Radhaswami gurus.)

 

Gurus do not make any "mistake" from the point of view of their role

as Spiritual Masters. In fact, even their apparent

material "mistakes" are a lesson and a test to the sincere disciple,

in terms of refining one's values and judgement. The only totally

perfect Being is Krishna. Guru is a perfect instrument in His role

as Pure Devotee and Compassionate Teacher.

 

In the present case, the omission of this particular phrase from the

translation in the Bhagavad Gita 2.2 does not affect the message

being conveyed, and so is not a "mistake" from the spiritual-teacher

point of view. But to those students who do not understand the

purpose of spiritual practice, such omissions, orthographic errors,

lack of some technological expertise irrelevant to spiritual life,

examples of "slanderous behavior", etc provides their unripe,

judgemental minds with an excuse to leave, thereby reducing and

homogenizing the remaining group of sincere students. This is

intended by Shri Krishna, in whose hands the Vaishnava guru is a

puppet.

 

For the sincere students, such incidents provide the opportunity to

think, introspect, and refine one's mind by examining one's

underlying value-judgments. We serve the Guru in order to "learn how

to love". Love is not judgemental about petty material "perfection".

In fact, love involves "forgiveness" and total, free acceptance --

the only reference point being pure devotion to Krishna, and not

some superhuman perfection or powers.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/25/2006 12:35:07 AM Eastern Standard Time,

scooty_ram writes:

 

I do not remember any part of my life when I was forgetful of Krsna."

 

My understanding:

 

I am very unclear how to claim a soul as nithya sidha or not.. it would

simply be impossible for a conditioned soul to judge unless there are direct

sastric statements.

 

The terms nitya-siddha or sadhana siddha classically apply to the stage of

bhava, or even prema. However, Srila Prabhupada's usage here is different, he

defines perfection as never forgetting Krishna, which is the stage of nistha

or which is the first stage of pure devotional service. So his reference to

himself as "nitya-siddha" is a reference to uttama-bhakti or unbroken,

unmotivated sadhana-bhakti, which is the main qualification for being a guru.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thus i feel there is nothing missed by followers of Prabhupada or they lack

nothing jus because Srila prabhupada was wrong in his expedition to MOON

theory or he quoted a verse wrongly etc or any other such details.

I don't think he is wrong on the moon expedition.

 

 

> What matters would be the purpose and the intent of the authour which

would purify the readers and guide them back home .

 

Yes this is true. The standard is pure devotional service which does not

imply omniscience.

 

 

regards

Gerald Surya

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006, Bhakti Vikasa Swami wrote:

> The following query was sent to me. Anyone?

>

>> Please refer to Bhagavad Gita 2.2. In the translation, I think the

>> translation of "visame samupasthitam" is missing. I thought that if the

>> mistake was made by the disciples of Prabhupad, it would have been

>> corrected long time ago. However, if Prabhupad made the mistake then i

>> wonder how a liberated soul could fall victim to the 4 defects of all

>> conditioned souls. I know that Prabhupad had no qualified proof readers to

>> help him and he produced the books despite great difficulties, yet my

>> doubt remains as to how a pure soul could make a mistake.

 

 

Someone feels he has made a tremendous discovery; he can't understand why no one

has corrected Srila Prabhupada's "mistake." I wouldn't say that Srila

Prabhupada never had any "qualified proofreaders," nor do we necesarily have to

assume that Srila Prabhupada wasn't aware of what he was doing.

 

Perhaps Srila Prabhupada simply chose to omit this relatively unimportant detail

from his translation. Srila Prabhupada's translations aren't always absolutely

literal, but they are always absolutely scrupulous. That so, no one should blame

Jayadvaita Maharaja for being conservative enough not to tamper with whatever

Srila Prabhupada wrote. Gopiparanadhana prabhu told me that Srila Prabhupada

also told him not to change translations.

 

Of course, for anyone losing sleep about it, the translation of the second line

appears in the synonyms.

 

In a day and age when people are so inclined to criticize BBT editors for

correcting this sort of thing, it's ironic (but not entirely surprising) to see

them also do so when BBT editors *don't* change anything.

 

MDd