Guest guest Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Canakya Pandita said, "Everywhere and always, the poor are envious of the rich, the foolish are envious of the wise, and the easy women envy the chaste." MDd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Hare Krishna, Is Chanakya Pandit referring to material or spiritual poverty and foolishness? Also brahmanas tend to be materially poor, does it mean that a "brahmana" is going to be "envious" of the rich? That would be a contradiction. Same is the case with so many ISKCON devotees who are not materially well-established, so can we extend Chanakya's advice to them? That would be an offense. Please comment. Vidyadhar achintya [achintya] On Behalf Of mpt Tuesday, February 21, 2006 12:07 AM achintya Cc: Atri Muni Prabhu; Ganga IDS; Mahesh Pandit Patna; Nitai Pada Kamala (IDS); Samvit Dasi; Vijay Govinda; BVKS Sanga Chanakya's advice Canakya Pandita said, "Everywhere and always, the poor are envious of the rich, the foolish are envious of the wise, and the easy women envy the chaste." MDd Achintya Homepage: achintya DISCLAIMER: All postings appearing on Achintya are the property of their authors, and they may not be cross-posted to other forums without prior approval by said authors. Views expressed in Achintya postings are those of their authors only, and are not necessarily endorsed by the moderator or spiritual leaders of the Gaudiiya school. Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 On Wed, 22 Feb 2006, Vidyadhar Karmarkar wrote: > Hare Krishna, > > Is Chanakya Pandit referring to material or spiritual poverty and > foolishness? > > Also brahmanas tend to be materially poor, does it mean that a "brahmana" is > going to be "envious" of the rich? That would be a contradiction. Same is > the case with so many ISKCON devotees who are not materially > well-established, so can we extend Chanakya's advice to them? That would be > an offense. > > Please comment. > It seems to be a general truth. I suppose it could also apply to nondevotees envying devotees. If we accept those born in brahmana families as brahmanas, then brahmanas indeed envy the rich, which would explain why it seems like almost all of them want to come to America for technological training aimed at economic development. Of course, genuine brahmanas aren't so needy, even if they have no worldly goods. But in this age, hardly any of them exist. I've seen many impoverished ISKCON devotees who actually want more material facility than they have or can get, and more often than not, they eventually decide to prioritize those things. In some cases, this involves leaving devotional service altogether, or minimizing it after some time, which fairly illustrates the principles mentioned in Bhagavad-gita 7.28 and Gita 7.3 respectively. In a sense, one could say they are as envious as we all are, but it isn't advisable to do so, as you've observed. It's better to emphasize the positive things about a devotee's character--or better yet, to see the ultimate insubstantiality of all mundane conceptions (cf. Bhagavatam, 11.28.1). MDd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 achintya, mpt wrote: > If we accept those born in brahmana families as brahmanas, then brahmanas indeed envy the rich, which would explain why it seems like almost all of them want to come to America for technological training aimed at economic development. Of course, genuine brahmanas aren't so needy, even if they have no worldly goods. But in this age, hardly any of them exist. > When I visited Sri Rangam a few years back, I met real brahmanas. They were wearing Sri Vaishnava tilak, sacred thread, and very simple cloth. They looked like Vedic scholars, and yet for all their erudition, they were falling at the feet of any passersby just to beg for enough money to subsist on. It was very heart breaking to see people who by all rights should be supported by society, nevertheless behaving as if they were the lowest of the low. That left a very long-lasting impression on me. Of course, they were Vaishnavas, but even had they not been so, I would have respected them no less. This reminds me of a story found in Shriimad Bhaagavatam, 10th canto, 64th chapter. There, it is described that one King Nrga got into trouble when two brahmanas whom he had given gifts to had a misunderstanding with each other. It seems that one got angry because a cow that was given to him wandered back into the King's herd and was inadvertently given to the other brahmana. The two brahmanas got into a fit over it. It seemed rather petty actually, and these hardly sounded like devotees, pure or otherwise. But King Nrga could not resolve the situation and he later reaped the fruit of this act by becoming a lizard. Krishna fortunately saved him from that situation. However, He then instructed His followers: SB 10.64.41: My dear followers, never treat a learned brahmana harshly, even if he has sinned. Even if he attacks you physically or repeatedly curses you, always continue to offer him obeisances. SB 10.64.42: Just us I always carefully bow down to brahmanas, so all of you should likewise bow down to them. I will punish anyone who acts otherwise. What can I say in response to this? Though not pure, these brahmanas were certainly qualified enough that the King who inadvertently sinned against them still had to suffer the reaction. And Lord Krishna Himself advises us not treat the learned brahmanas harshly, even though we might be ill treated by them. I rather liked this instruction, because my uncontrolled mind is always finding fault with brahmanas and saying "See, he has this or that flaw, so I need not respect him as a true brahmana." But in retrospect, I think perhaps that view of mine born of immaturity is probably not very Krishna-conscious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 > When I visited Sri Rangam a few years back, I met real brahmanas. > They were wearing Sri Vaishnava tilak, sacred thread, and very > simple cloth. They looked like Vedic scholars, and yet for all > their erudition, they were falling at the feet of any passersby > just to beg for enough money to subsist on. It was very heart > breaking to see people who by all rights should be supported by > society, nevertheless behaving as if they were the lowest of the > low. That left a very long-lasting impression on me. Of course, > they were Vaishnavas, but even had they not been so, I > would have respected them no less. Hari Bol. Very noble thought. But there is no need to support brahmanas out of pity. They are holding the greatest treasure of mankind namely sruti. They are until today reciting vedas and performing veda karmas for the welfare of the world amidst all abuse by avaidhikas. Vedas are indeed protecting them and will continue to protect them. Even the power of the state is unable to crush them. When Sankaracharya was arrested on false charges of murder, one of my relatives was also detained and harrassed for nine days for asking the police to remove the shoes before entering the mutt. Every one in the media though that the "weak" brahmanas will tell on him to protect themselves. But no one feared the state torture through goondas act etc. and they are slowly winning. Persecution by muslims, Brainwashing by the british church and contemporary political harrassment - none of them can destroy brahminical tradition. Their poverty, as maha swamigal of kanchi sankara mutt, put it is their protection. Today only those who really want to be a sastrigal will choose that line. If they were rich, then every one will try to learn vedas and make a business out of it. Some brahmanas may want to use apara vidhya to make money and continue VedAbhyAsam. This is not wrong and Manu says that such a position is allowed. Those born in other varnas can also perform VedAbhyAsam in addition to their regular profession and support parama vaidhikas. Such a support is for THEIR own welfare because a brahamana does not need THEIR protection. He is protected by the lord and will not perish. An avaidhika can assasin his character, steal his wealth and dishonour him but cannot destroy the merit he has acquired by passing on the sruti and vedanta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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