Kurma Purana the orginal Gita? And other things...

[Guest guest]

J.N.Das writes:

 

> As a side note, the Kurma Purana contains the

>instructions between Narayana and Vivasvan described

>in the Bhagavad Gita, but the date for that would be

>irrelevant, as it is the instructions between Manu

and >Ikshvaku that are required.

 

So it seems that the "original" Gita as spoken by

Krishna to Vivasvan is contained in the Kurma Purana.

Is that what you are saying? It owuld sure be an

interesting text to read.

 

As a small continuation to the Madhvacarya discussion

(found at

http://www.gosai.com/dvaita/madhvacarya/index.html) I

mentioned how the NC Math are/were involved in a

debate about the validity of the Gaudiya parampara.

 

However I find this one trouling. In the section about

"The divinity of Chaitanya Mahaprahu", the objection

and refutation are given thus:

 

"OBJECTION: Those quotes [That dscribe Chaitanya

Mahaprabhu] that you use which can be found are

conveniently interpreted by you to promote the cause

of your own sect.

 

REFUTATION: This is consistent within the sampradayika

tradition and those within that school are satisfied.

However, those outside that fold may not accept such

interpretations. For example, you accuse the Gaudiyas

of misinterpreting verses to suite their own purpose

in establishing the divinity of Mahaprabhu, yet you

have done exactly the same, quoting the Balittha Sukta

(2) as evidence to show your acarya as the incarnation

of Mukhya Prana. Who else except your own sect accepts

this interpretation of Balittha Suktam?"

 

I wonder how far this case can be taken. We may very

well "interpret the quotes to promote our sect" about

Chaitanya's divinity, but when we read the original

Sanskrit or Bengali, we cn find names like "Gaura", or

derivatives, quite clearly. Prophecies about

Mahaprabhu are amazingly clear, so I wonder how

followers of other philosophies may interpret those

quotes?

 

The Balittha Suktam is also clear in saying that

Sripada Madhvacarya is the third avatar of Vayu (the

previous two being Hanuman and Bhima), so how else can

the Suktam be taken by oher schools? It is obvious

that the Madhva school show Balittha Suktam to be

pramana of Madhva's identity, and I suppose that the

Gaudiyas do the same reading the quotes about

Mahaprabhu. Then how is it that they object?

 

How do we wrap up this issue so that all sides are

satisfied?

 

Haribol, Sanjay

 

=====

"Radha-Krishna prana mora jugala-kisora, jivane marane gati aro nahi mora."

 

"The divine couple, Sri Radha and Krsna, are my life and soul. In life or death

I have no other refuge but Them."

 

-- Srila Narottama Dasa Thakura

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

achintya, Sanjay Dadlani <dark_knight_9> wrote:

 

> The Balittha Suktam is also clear in saying that

> Sripada Madhvacarya is the third avatar of Vayu (the

> previous two being Hanuman and Bhima), so how else can

> the Suktam be taken by oher schools? It is obvious

> that the Madhva school show Balittha Suktam to be

> pramana of Madhva's identity, and I suppose that the

> Gaudiyas do the same reading the quotes about

> Mahaprabhu. Then how is it that they object?

 

I think the point they were making was simply that Baalittha Sukta is

not interpreted in that way by non-Maadhva sects. We as Gaudiiyas may

accept that interpretation out of deference to our common paramparaa.

But if they are going to object to our interpretation of

Mahaaprabhu's predictions, we could theoretically use the same logic

against their interpretation of Baalittha Suktam (even though we

don't in practice).

 

One of the reasons Maadhvas won't accept Mahaaprabhu as the Lord is

because their theology requires them to believe that the Lord does

not take avataara in Kali Yuga. I don't personally understand how

they justify that view point in light of "yadaa yadaa hi

dharmasya...," but the idea is that because He Himself does not

appear in Kali Yuga (because by doing so Kali Yuga would end up not

being Kali Yuga, by virtue of His purifying presence), He instead

sends His chief aide Mukhya Praana (aka Vaayu) to go instead.

 

- Krishna

[Guest guest]

> So it seems that the "original" Gita as spoken by

> Krishna to Vivasvan is contained in the Kurma Purana.

> Is that what you are saying? It owuld sure be an

> interesting text to read.

 

Yes.

 

> I wonder how far this case can be taken. We may very

> well "interpret the quotes to promote our sect" about

> Chaitanya's divinity, but when we read the original

> Sanskrit or Bengali, we cn find names like "Gaura", or

> derivatives, quite clearly. Prophecies about

> Mahaprabhu are amazingly clear, so I wonder how

> followers of other philosophies may interpret those

> quotes?

 

I would think he is referring to non explicit verses that refer to

"mahan prabhuh" found in some Upanishads, which our acharyas say refer

to Sri Chaitanya.

 

Regarding the Puranic verses, which are usually very direct and clear,

they will just reject them all as interpolation. When you don't want to

accept something, no matter what eveidence is presented, you can just

brush it all aside as interpolation.

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

> One of the reasons Maadhvas won't accept Mahaaprabhu as the Lord is

> because their theology requires them to believe that the Lord does

> not take avataara in Kali Yuga. I don't personally understand how

> they justify that view point in light of "yadaa yadaa hi

> dharmasya...," but the idea is that because He Himself does not

> appear in Kali Yuga (because by doing so Kali Yuga would end up not

> being Kali Yuga, by virtue of His purifying presence), He instead

> sends His chief aide Mukhya Praana (aka Vaayu) to go instead.

 

I am not familiar with the arguments they have made, but how do they

explain Kalki, Buddha, Venkatesvara, etc., which all occurred in Kali

yugas. I would guess they consider Kalki to come at the yuga-sandhya,

and that Buddha was only an empowered jiva.

 

 

 

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