ritviks and gurus...

[Guest guest]

Dear Prabhu,

 

Please accept mu humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

rmec> Most Dear Vaisnava please endure this one question of mine. What

rmec> is the essential difference between a ritvik-devotee. In my mind

rmec> this is a devotee who is so sincerely attached to His divine

rmec> Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada that, he refuses

rmec> to take initiation from any other GURU.

 

rmec> He realises that Srila Prabhupada can instruct via the heart so

rmec> he remains in a position of firm faith in Srila Prabhupada and

rmec> thence Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

The problem is that, as moderator of this forum has already said,

ritvik philosophy of "post-samadhi-ritvik-guru" is not approved by

sastra and sadhus also.

 

We need an "alive" guru. It is said in "Gita" (4.34), tad viddhi

pranipatena...,"...you must approach a spiritual master, humbly

inquire from him and serve him..." We must serve an "alive" guru.

Otherwise, what is the difference between serving Krsna directly (what

is not aproved by "Gita") and serving "post-samadhi-ritvik-guru?"

 

Caitanya Mahaprabhu also said: "gopi-bhartuh-pada-kamaloyor

dasa-dasanudasa..." - I'm a humble servant of the servant of the

servant of the servant of the lotus feet of Krsna. That's the mood of

His mission. Srila Radhanata Swami said once, that "everyone in our

mission is a servant." That means that Mahaprabhu's mission is

absorbed into that mood of a "dasa-dasanudasa."

 

But if we "serve" Srila Prabhupada directly, is that right? If we

serve Srila Prabhupada directly, why can't we serve Srila Rupa Goswami

or Mahaprabhu directly as well? Why can't we take initiation from

Mahaprabhu directly? That is not approved by guru, sadhu and sastra.

That's why we don't do that...

 

And so on and so forth! There are many points we can discuss about

ritvik theory. But I don't fell myself qualified enough to give

qualified answers on that subject matter. :-) The best way for you is

to approach "proven representatives" of Srila Prabhupada. You could

approach Srila Jayadvaita Swami Maharaja, who wrote an article on that

subject. I have that article but in Russian... I don't have an English

original, so I can't post it here...

 

But there's one essential thing for one, who's decided to drawn

himself into arguments with ritvik-devotees: he must remember about

vaisnava-aparadhas (offensive attitude towards a vaisnava) and

nama-aparadhas (offences to the Holy Name). If you've drawn into the

arguments with some "Anti-ISKCON" organizations, you're better to flee

the battle. To leave the field of a battle, I mean... :-) If you're

not qualified enough, of course... Otherwise it would be very

distructive to your spiritual health. Because the seed of that

arguments IS NOT GURU, SADHU and SASTRA, BUT /_POLITIC_/. "One devotee

heard Srila Prabhupada was talking about this and other devotee heard

Srila Prabhupada was talking about that..." -- Who were those

devotees? -- "Oh, those were just the regular devotees.." -- Why do

you believe them? Don't you believe the leaders?.. etc... I saw some

devotees arguing... ISKCON devotees and ritvik-devotees. That's very

distructive to spiritual health... ...offences, offences, offences!..

 

rmec> I do have some form of minimal assiocation with Gaudya Math

rmec> Vainava's (EX ISKCON) hence my realization is that they are also

rmec> preaching Chaitanya Maha Prabhu's mission. I do offer them my

rmec> respects but I am still indebted to His Divine Grace A.C

rmec> Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.

 

rmec> As a matter, of my observation they also offer respects to His

rmec> Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.

 

And that's right. The etiquete says we must respect one who's chanting

the Holy Name of Krsna and bow down in front of an initiated

devotee... Actually, "Upadesamreeta" states that... I hope, we'll soon

discuss that verse here.

 

But there's one essential point about different missions and different

gurus. I was told about that by one senior devotee and then Srila

Hridayananda Maharaja approved that point of view. So, the point is as

follows:

 

---

An advanced devotee can hear from different acaryas (he looks at their

instructions through instructions of his guru) and a neophyte devotee

should stick to only one mission and not to go to other mission until

he gets fixed... Otherwise he'll hear a lot of different definitions

of the same things and thus his mind will be disturbed and even

offensive behavior can develop. So one should stay in his mission and

not to hear from other acaryas until he gets a fixed faith in his guru

and his mission. That was my point. The way to other sources of

knowledge goes through one's guru. Like it is stated in

"Srimad-Bhagavatam" (11.9.39)

---

 

In other words, different gurus explain one thing from the different

sides. But there isn't any contradictions between them. There isn't...

But WE, being a neophyte devotees, will SURELY SEE SOME

CONTRADICTIONS! And that is the root of "your guru is not a bona fide

guru" attitude. We go to Gaudiya-Matha and we hear there one point of

view. Then we go to ISKCON and hear another point of view. Then we go

somewhere else and here the third point of view! So what shall we get?

Our mind will get confused: "Who is a non bona fide guru?.. Why are

they expressing different views?" You see? The thing we should do is

to surrender to a bona fide guru, hear krsna-katha from him, serve him

and that's all... There isn't any politic in that point of view. :-)

That's an etiquete... Your guru's instructions you take as absolute,

other guru's intructions you don't take as absolute. Otherwise, one

guru says: "you should study Caitanya-Caritamrita first", the other

one says: "Stick to the Gita"... So, what will you do? :-)

 

rmec> I humbly beg your response to the question : What is the

rmec> essential difference between a Gaudia Vaisnava devotee and a

rmec> devotee who believes in ritvik vada?"

 

Ritvik-vada is not based on guru-sadhu-sastra system. That's

speculation... "As one old woman (granny) said..." - as we say in

Russia... You know, they're sitting on the benches all day long and

gossiping...

 

I hope, I answered your question... Please ask if you have some

questions on philosophy. However, I don't want to get into politic

things... I don't qualified enough to discuss what Srila Prabhupada

told about something to someone. :-)

 

I beg all the devotees of this forum to forgive me any offences I have

commited in this letter.

 

--

Your servant,

Dennis dennis_s