tad viddhi pranipatena

[Guest guest]

On Sat, 13 Oct 2001, dennis a. sushchenko wrote:

> The problem is that, as moderator of this forum has already said,

> ritvik philosophy of "post-samadhi-ritvik-guru" is not approved by

> sastra and sadhus also.

Itihasa, or historical precedent, can often help resolve debates

on the conclusions of guru, sadhu, and sastra. Traditional precedents

(and the teachings given by predecessor acaryas) might be seen as a subset

of "sadhu." Of course, like anyone else, ritviks can creatively use sastras

to their own ends, as well as find (or elect) "sadhus" who will agree

with their interpretations; the guru himself is what is in question here.

I don't find the ritvik ideology convincing because no previous Gaudiya

vaisnava acaryas have mentioned any such theory which radically differs

from our sampradaya's precedents in general. At the same time, certain

and Western socio-political circumstances in which the ritvik ideologies

historically arose (around 1980) are also evident. It looks dubious.

 

 

 

> If one can not find (in ones opinion) a bonafide guru as already

> mentioned does one live through life with out a GURU?

Such frustration seems to be a primary reason some embrace ritvik

theories--which are varied. The Christian Bible says, "seek and ye shall

find;" Krsna says much the same in His Gita (10.10). Successful search

parameters are defined in Bhagavatam, 2.9.36 (BTW, these two verses are

also quoted in the Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila, 1, in the context of

explaining the bonafide guru as Krsna's Divine grace).

Not everyone can afford to pay for diamonds, so most settle for

cubic zirconia; but everyone can afford to purchase Krsna, because if we are

serious, Krsna supplies whatever currency we require--as if miraculously.

However, if for some reason one cannot find a bonafide guru, I've

heard that Vallabhacarya advised someone in that condition to worship Krsna

with total dedication while praying for further direction. He also said

that no one can control Krsna's causeless mercy (i.e., His Divine grace),

but that if there were some way to do so, it would be humility. Srila

Jiva Gosvami said this too.

 

 

 

> Is it OK for ONE to test a GURU to see if the GURU meets these criteria?

Yes! It's absolutely imperative--one's life is ruined if one

surrenders to a "guru" who is unqualified, while everyone accepts gurus of

one sort or another, to one degree or another. However, the (mutual) testing

should happen *before* initiation. Unfortunately, people too often act

first and think later. Our founder-acarya waited over a decade before he

took initiation, even though he said he was convinced of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta

Sarasvati Thakura's qualifications right from the start. Accepting one's

guru is the unique and pivotal human decision; it requires one's utmost

care and attention.

One must also carefully respect potential gurus (especially, and

everyone else in general), which never requires anyone to be exploited by

those who aren't actually bonafide. No one is obliged to offend any

underqualified gurus either. This is a matter of etiquette, which is also

important. But after having accepted one's guru, it is offensive to

disrespect him in any way (please see Bhagavatam, 11.17.27, 7.8.3-4 &

purport).

 

 

 

> What if there are no GURU's left...is the post-samadhi ritvik guru

> bonafide ?

We have to judge any spiritual propositions by the degree to which

they can be demonstrated as being logically consonant with those of guru,

sadhu, and sastra. That there might be no gurus left is open to a lot of

doubt. Krsna says He appears continually, whenever and wherever there is

a decline of dharma and consequent increase of irreligion. Sometimes He

rectifies things personally, but usually He does this through His pure

devotees. He appears in different forms for specific purposes. The

bonafide guru is a "prakasa" representative of Krsna (cf. Caitanya-caritamrta,

Adi-lila, 1.44-58). He is the external manifestation of our indwelling

witness, Paramatman. When we identify His Divine grace, we will find

Krsna.

Krsna knows everything. According to the sons of Kuvera (cf.

Bhagavtam, 10.10.31), who saw Damodara by dint of Narada Muni's mercy,

Krsna is "sarva-ksetra-vikara-vit;" everywhere in this world, He has been

watching and patiently facilitating each and every individual's spiritual

evolution throughout countless millenia. He also wants us all to come

home more than we are usually willing to try. But Krsna is immediately

with us--all the time--and provides whatever we need. He never fails.

Not even a tiny blade of grass waves in the breeze without His sanction.

He can thus do anything; He can even turn matter into spirit.

 

MDd