No fall from Vaikuntha

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna

>

> Jaya Vijaya the Gate Keeper for the Vaikuntha Loka Fall down so it

is

> clear although you are in Vaikuntha you can still fall down.

>

> Lowest of the low

> Baktha Raja

>

[Guest guest]

achintya, r32499@o... wrote:

> Hare Krishna

> >

> > Jaya Vijaya the Gate Keeper for the Vaikuntha Loka Fall down so

it

> is

> > clear although you are in Vaikuntha you can still fall down.

 

 

Actually, though, that specific instance occurred due to the Lord's

arrangement:

 

SB 7.2.35 purport:

 

"From authoritative sources it can be discerned that associates of

Lord Visnu who descend from Vaikuntha do not actually fall. They come

with the purpose of fulfilling the desire of the Lord, and their

descent to this material world is comparable to that of the Lord. The

Lord comes to this material world through the agency of His internal

potency, and similarly, when a devotee or associate of the Lord

descends to this material world, he does so through the action of the

spiritual energy. Any pastime conducted by the Supreme Personality of

Godhead is an arrangement by yogamaya, not mahamaya. Therefore it is

to be understood that when Jaya and Vijaya descended to this material

world, they came because there was something to be done for the

Supreme Personality of Godhead. Otherwise it is a fact that no one

falls from Vaikuntha.

 

So yes, it does prove that one can fall from Vaikuntha if the Lord

allows it, but it does not prove that one can fall otherwise. Of

course, I suppose one could argue that we were all previously in

Vaikuntha, but only fell because the Lord allowed it.... now that

would be an interesting take on the situation.

 

yours,

 

- K

[Guest guest]

They come

> with the purpose of fulfilling the desire of the

> Lord, and their

> descent to this material world is comparable to that

> of the Lord.

That must explain why Hiranyakasipu is referred to

as Sri Hiranyakasipu in the Bhagavatam.

>

> So yes, it does prove that one can fall from

> Vaikuntha if the Lord

> allows it, but it does not prove that one can fall

> otherwise. Of

> course, I suppose one could argue that we were all

> previously in

> Vaikuntha, but only fell because the Lord allowed

> it.... now that

> would be an interesting take on the situation.

Aren't we all agreed that NOTHING can happen without

the sanction of the Lord? That is what omnipotent

means, "all powerful." In order to be God, one has to

be all powerful, so I argue, IF there IS a fall, it

can ONLY be with Krsna's sanction.

 

ys,

Maharani dd

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

-- mary foye writes:

 

>> Aren't we all agreed that NOTHING can happen

without the sanction of the Lord?

That is what omnipotent means, "all

powerful." In order to be God, one has to

be all powerful, so I argue, IF there IS a fall,

it can ONLY be with Krsna's sanction.

<<

 

That's exactly right. Absolutely true. Please consider

the following:

 

DISCIPLE: If Krsna did not want us to come, why are we

here?

PRABHUPADA: Yes. You forced Krsna to allow you to

come. ..This is the position. You have to take

sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God

sanctions. And you come and enjoy. - Bhagavad-gita

lecture in Melbourne, June 27, 1974

 

Actually, the living entity is never the controller at

any time during his eternal existence. In reality, he

controls nothing. Even in his rebellion against the

Lord, the Lord has to create a place where the jiva

can come and completely forget his actual identity. If

God did not allow you to forget Him, you would be

unable to forget him on your own. The living entity

requires the

Lord's sanction even in the matter of leaving the

spiritual world and the jiva's personal relationship

with the Personality of Godhead.

 

[Explanation by Vaishnava Foundation]

 

In service of Gaura-Nitai,

 

Sanjay

 

=====

"Radha-Krishna prana mora jugala-kisora, jivane marane gati aro nahi mora."

 

"The divine couple, Sri Radha and Krsna, are my life and soul. In life or death

I have no other refuge but Them."

 

-- Srila Narottama Dasa Thakura

 

 

 

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