What is Jnaana? (was What is Tantra?)

[Guest guest]

Thanks to Jahnava-Nitai Prabhu for posting this excerpt. It

clarifies the issue considerably. However, there was one part that

caught my eye:

 

achintya, "J.N. Das" <jndas> wrote:

>

> Jnana-kanda involves realizing the Absolute truth in

> impersonal feature for the purpose of becoming one .

> The Upanishads explain this path.

 

Why is it asserted that the Upanishads explain the Absolute

truth "for the purpose of becoming one?" If the Bhaagavatam is the

commentary on the Vedaanta-suutra, and the Vedaanta-suutra is Shrii

Vyaasadeva's explanation of the Upanishads, then is it not logical

to conclude that the subject matter of the Bhaagavatam, Vedaanta,

and Upanishads is the same, that is, devotional service to a Supreme

Personality of Godhead?

 

It does not seem logical to me to suggest that the Upanishads only

describe the impersonal feature, and that the path of the Upanishads

is that of the Advaitins. For one thing, we know of numerous

Upanishad pramaanas which contradict both viewpoints. The

Iishopanishad 15th mantra says "hiranmayena paatrena

satyasyaapihitam mukham..." which explicitly refers to a Personality

of Godhead, not a formless Brahman. The Gopaala-taapani Upanishad

explicitly identifies that Personality of Godhead as Krishna.

 

If the Upanishads were describing the path of becoming one with the

Supreme, then would it not be a contradiction for scriptures like

Bhagavad-Giitaa and Shriimad Bhaagavatam which give an opposite goal

for us to follow?

 

Perhaps the statement above can be rewritten to say, " Jnana-kanda

involves realizing the Absolute truth in impersonal feature which is

misused by those who wish to become one. The Upanishads explain this

path."

 

However, even in this case, I think we need to clarify what is meant

by the Lord's "impersonal feature."

 

Comments welcome.

 

yours,

 

- K

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2002, krishnasusarla wrote:

> > Jnana-kanda involves realizing the Absolute truth in

> > impersonal feature for the purpose of becoming one .

> > The Upanishads explain this path.

>

> It does not seem logical to me to suggest that the Upanishads only

> describe the impersonal feature, and that the path of the Upanishads

> is that of the Advaitins. For one thing, we know of numerous

> Upanishad pramaanas which contradict both viewpoints.

 

Actually, all of them do. The absolute is simultaneously one

and different, though this synthesis is not logically comprehensible.

Moreover, the oneness stressed in the Upanisads isn't the artificial

oneness of the Mayavadis; it's the real oneness we can never really avoid,

our eternal oneness in quality and interest. A devotee who has realized

this oneness--one whom the Bhagavatam thus describes as "guru-devatatma"

(i.e., one in whom there is no conflict between God, guru, and self)--is

further depicted as follows (11.2.41):

 

"A devotee should not see anything as being separate from the

Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna. Ether, fire, air, water, earth, the

sun and other luminaries, all living beings, the directions, trees and

other plants, the rivers and oceans--whatever a devotee experiences he

should consider to be an expansion of Krsna. Thus seeing everything that

exists within creation as the body of the Supreme Lord, Hari, the devotee

should offer his sincere respects to the entire expansion of the Lord's

body."

 

Anyone who is doubtful about this can refer to the same idea, as expressed

again in 10.10.38, etc. Such a devotee experiences the "higher taste" (cf.

Gita 2.59), just as the next Bhagavatam verse suggests (11.2.42):

 

"Devotion, direct experience of the Supreme Lord, and detachment from

other things--these three occur simultaneously for one who has taken shelter

of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, in the same way that pleasure,

nourishment and relief from hunger come simultaneously and increasingly,

with each bite, for a person engaged in eating."

 

We could say a lot about Krsna-prasadam here too, but I'll leave it for now.

However, the primary manifestation of the Lord with which we are now concerned

is the one meant especially for us--His holy name. Therefore it is also

noteworthy that Harinama is mentioned in this very same passage (11.2.40):

 

"By chanting the holy name of the Supreme Lord, one comes to the

stage of love of Godhead. Then the devotee is fixed in his vow as an

eternal servant of the Lord, and he gradually becomes very much attached

to a particular name and form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. As

his heart melts with ecstatic love, he laughs very loudly or cries or

shouts. Sometimes he sings and dances like a madman, for he is indifferent

to public opinion."

 

 

 

> If the Upanishads were describing the path of becoming one with the

> Supreme, then would it not be a contradiction for scriptures like

> Bhagavad-Giitaa and Shriimad Bhaagavatam which give an opposite goal

> for us to follow?

 

No, because like the Isopanisad, Sri Krsna Himself asserts that

the best yogi is the one who has come to identify with all living beings,

including Krsna--in quality and interest (sreyas) and not quantity. I

think the Upanisads stress this because it is such an important prerequisite

to pure devotion--something Krsna also suggests in His Gita (18.54).

 

Actually, devotees are far more ambitious than the Advaitins.

They aren't satisfied merely to realize this oneness with God; instead, by

Krsna's grace (and on His terms: "anukulyasya krsnanusilanam"), they want

to become GREATER than God--for His pleasure. However, that's an esoteric

realm far beyond my realization. Still, we may see a transcendental

demonstration of how Krsna allows this, in Bhagavatam 10.11.7.

 

 

 

> Perhaps the statement above can be rewritten to say, " Jnana-kanda

> involves realizing the Absolute truth in impersonal feature which is

> misused by those who wish to become one. The Upanishads explain this

> path."

 

Maybe, but that would still give Mayavada more prominence than

it really deserves. The whole point is to appreciate just what this

oneness actually means. The pure devotees know very well, and so they

also preach it very well, like Kuntidevi did (Bhagavatam, 1.8.27):

 

"My obeisances are unto You, who are the property of the

materially impoverished. You have nothing to do with the actions and

reactions of the material modes of nature. You are self-satisfied, and

therefore You are the most gentle and are master of the monists"

(Kaivalya-pati).

 

This monism is also called "kevala-bhakti" (Bhagavatam, 6.1.15),

i.e., exclusive devotion.

 

Clearly, the Srimad Bhagavatam is full of realized oneness. We

can really enter into it when we share the Bhagavatam's treasures with

others, in a spirit of deep empathy and love--i.e., real identity. Such

"audarya" is exactly what Lord Caitanya asks of us all, especially those

born in India.

 

We can therefore conclude that real "oneness with the Supreme" means

to be totally absorbed in kirtana, prasadam, and book distribution.

 

MDd