Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Dear rudra lovers, i take the liberty to reproduce shree chandrashekhar's phadkeji's views on ek mukhi round...i find his last comment beautiful, true, and appealing....>>>Rudraksha field is like the famous story of 'Five Blind Men and Elephant.' How true! It's like My God Vs Your God...I do know if any website is selling fake or genuine ek mukhi...but these are prone to deception...nobody knows whether a particular member by that name exists or not...whether he or she is from some trade website..whether some expert is actually an expert or a hidden agent...when groups are themselves hijacked by tradewebsites or their agents what can we say? i only wish a gem of a person like shree richard shaw brown who took sanyas to realise his spirituality, does not fall prey any tradesites or agents...on groups, we cannot guarantee that all are genuine seekers of spirituality...we cannot deny any wolf in sheep's clothing...money, desire, ego can spoil the best of people.. as phadkeji says, there are 350 rudra species and it is like an elephant to blind men...what is real what is fake......i only know that everybody gets what he or she deserves...it is the rule of karma at work nothing else... Holy texts, puranas and Shre Gurucharitra of Bhagwan Narsinhsarasvati are full of the tragic tale of learned brahmins who had to suffer Dear Surya, Ole and Zarembadavid, This is in connection with the 'Nirakar' and 'Round Ek Mukhi' shown on the website of Neparudraksha by Shri. Mukunda Khatiwada. I have checked the pictures thoroughly and have the following personal opinion. According to me both the beads are genuine. I think, we have to consider here only external characters since the theoratical rule: 'Total no. of clefts show equal no. of locules' is not a universal rule in the genus Elaeocarpus. In practice, there are exceptions to this rule. I still remember here discussions on RBSC forum in the year 2002 by me, Mr. Suraj Raghavan, and others on this important aspect. The genus Elaeocarpus lists at least 350 species world wide. In India we get only 29. In India we can get beads from very few species (not more than 4 to 5 species). With my studies on limited no. of species, I am giving few examples to support my findings as under. OVAL THREE MUKHI : ( Indian Rudraksha ) Under this species we get three and four mukhi oval beads. This species is more common in Haridwar and Deharadun. We also get this species in Andaman and Nicobar islands. I have collections from Haridwar and Andaman. Three mukhi oval rudraksha shows only one well developed locule and a single seed inside it. In addition to this locule the bead shows only two additional minute scars. This type of beads do not show any rudimentary locules in slit form. Since I am a botanist, I could locate these scars. A person who is not from the field of botany would not be able to notice such scars in this species. In X-Ray pictures such scars go unnoticed. Four mukhi beads under this species are very rare and have similar internal characters as above. THE PERFECTLY ROUND NEPAL TWO MUKHI : (Nepal Rudraksha) The Perfectly Round Nepal two mukhi round bead does not show two locules and two seeds in it. In this connection I agree with Mr. Siddhartha who has sent his posting on Mr. Richard's forum. This type of bead is a developmetal abnormality of the normal four mukhi Nepal bead. If cut transeversely, it shows four locules and four seeds inside it. In X-Ray one can study this character in more detail. Two mukhi Nepal beads come in two shapes. The commonly available is perfectly round two mukhi, and the other is 'Pear fruit shaped', similar to collector type Nepal 3 Mukhi. I have not either cut or X-rayed Pear fruit type two mukhi. It is interestng to note that on few reputed websites on Rudraksha, a beautiful perfectly round two mukhi bead is shown. If you observe these pictures carefully, this two mukhi bead shows two well developed clefts or mukhi and two more additional cuts which are not fully developed. These immature cuts are at the right angle of the well developed clefts. The two mukhi round bead shown there is definitely with four locules inside. I have studied this type of beads personally from my collection. If required, I will send images of the same on forum. I am not challenging the round two mukhi nature of the bead on these websites since cuts or clefts which are not fully developed are not considered as mukhi in conventional rudraksha practice. INTERNAL STRUCTURES OF MULTI MUKHI RUDRAKSHA BEADS : Theoratically, there is a general rule in the genus Elaeocarpus, that the total no. of clefts have equal no. of locules, however, practically, there are many abnormalities noticed as under. As we all know, locules develop under the cleft and not in between the two clefts. Theoratically, each such cleft should have a corresponding well developed locule and a seed inside it. However, it is a common experience in higher mukhi beads that few of the locules are not well developed (poorly developed) or totally absent. Such poorly developed locules are seen as sterile slit like structures and naturally without any seeds. Sometimes we can notice only poorly developed scar instead of locules under the corresponding cleft. A person who is not from the field of botany will not be able to notice these scars. The higher mukhi beads are very commonly constricted in the central portion. Clefts in this region are very close to each other. Rarely, two clefts share a single wall. Considering seed dimensions of rudraksha, it is imposible to develop healthy corresponding locules for such clefts. It is unfortunate that people who talk much about clefts and locules etc. have not studied it personally by cutting higher mukhi beads. Most of their observations are based on superficial studies on internal structures of 4 to 8 mukhi beads. The more the number of clefts the more is the percentage of poorly developed locules, or scars or total absence of locules/ scars as described above. I have also noticed that many of the higher mukhi beads are 'Gauri Shankar' or 'Trijuti' inside. One can easily see a small vertical partition/s from the hole on the top. If such beads are observed from bottom side or tail region, one can notice two or three holes of such fused beads. External wall of such beads is continuous giving the false impression of one complete bead. In normal Gauri Shankar fusion line is without any clefts. Few years back, beautiful black and white pictures of such higher mukhi beads showing Gauri Shankar characters inside were shown on RBSC forum of Rudra Centre. These beads were from the collection of Shri. Kamal Narayan Seetha as it was mentioned in the mail. If somebody wants to give stress on the internal characters of rudraksha, then higher mukhi nature of such beads will not stand on this yardstick. If we stress to consider external and internal characters together, then the highly priced rarest 21 mukhi may turn to be a combination of two to three lower mukhi beads inside. I am not critising such beads and of course of the opinion that these beads should be considered as higher mukhi beads based on its external characters. Botanically, this phenomenon is called as 'Carpellary fusion'. I would request the concerned students of rudraksha and website owners to spare some higher mukhi beads ( 9 mukhi onwards) and study these characters critically from their own collection and not to restrict their opinion on internal structures of beads from 4 to 8 mukhi. X-Ray test may not be a full proof solution since poorly developed locules and scars may go unnoticed in X-Rays. X-Ray test in rudraksha (higher mukhi) appears very easy, however, it is difficult to practice and to interprete the X-Ray images, especially of higher mukhi beads. Personally, I practice it regularly for Valampuri Conch. The inference is : Relation of clefts and locules is not a reliable test. There are many developmental abnormalities like in three and two mukhi Nepal bead. These findings are based on very few Elaeocarpus species studied out of 350 species worldwide. ROUND NEPAL EK MUKHI, DOES IT EXISTS ? I am of the opinion that Yes, Round Ek Mukhi does exist. The best way to judge round Ek Mukhi rudraksha (and also higher mukhi rudraksha) is to observe it critically from its head and the tail region. It is not possible to make any artificial changes in rudraksha stone character at these two ends. As we all know, in fake Ek Mukhi rudraksha beads, clefts are sealed either with resins or by pasteing small pieces of other rudraksha in the cleft region. Clefts are also sometimes skillfully removed. One can not tamper the rudraksha in the head or tail region. Tampered beads can easily be noticed at these two ends. To check characters of Round Ek Mukhi, critically, there is a very simple test to follow. One can imaginarily devide the bead in five or six equal sectors. Now go on checking continuity of tubercled ornamentation or continuous rough surface from one such imaginary sector to the other. Now, change the set of imaginary sectors and repeat the procedure. In a authentic bead there is overlapping of such continuous tubercled structures in different sectors. The pictures of head and tail region of 'Nirakar Rudraksha' are excellent and does not show any proof that the bead is tampered. The tubercled ornamentation or in simple words rough surface of the bead is natural and is continuous. This bead is likely to show five locules inside. If you observe extreme right hand side image ( tail region of the bead) critically, it shows an elevated five armed star like structure. Head image of this bead shows few poorly developed cuts which are not complete. Conventionally, such imperfect cuts are not counted as clefts, so we need not consider such imcomplete cuts as mukhi. The Rudraksha is no doubt the rarest, 'Zero Mukhi Bead'. In case of one mukhi bead it is necessary to give images from head and the tail region to support the claim of one mukhi. However, the side image gives the clear idea about its Ek Mukhi nature. This bead is likely to show three to four locules inside. With my experience, two mukhi perfectly round Nepal bead shows four locules inside. Such beads are generally smaller in size. With my experience, large authentic (with above tests) Ek mukhi Nepal bead shows four to five locules inside if X-Ray is taken. It is important to note that Mr. Mukunda Khatiwada has not claimed that his bead shows only one locule inside. Does not matter, the bead is no doubt Ek Mukhi externally. A customer has to decide whether he should give stress on external characters or both external and internal characters together. People talking so much about clefts and locules etc. should also frankly accept the fact that the PERFECTLY ROUND NEPAL TWO MUKHI does not exist and is a developmental abnormality of a NORMAL FOUR MUKHI RUDRAKSHA. There can not be double standards, for beads under description by Mr. Mukunda Khatiwada and for the perfectly round two mukhi Nepal beads shown on few websites. I personally accept both the beads i.e. round Ek Mukhi and the Round Two Mukhi judging external characters critically. Sometimes I imagine, if I get, a round Ek mukhi (internally) with only one locule and seed inside, but with many clefts outside, what will be the reaction ? Shall I then call such Rudraksha as 'One Mukhi Round' or 'Multimukhi Round' ? Finally, to sum up Rudraksha biology is very interesting showing variety of morphological abnormal characters. It also shows large abnormalities in developmental biology of the varity of beads. As mentioned earlier, there are approximately 350 species world wide. We know very few of them. Rudraksha field is like the famous story of 'Five Blind Men and Elephant'. Thanking you and with best wishes, Chandrashekhar Phadke Poona, India. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Hi, please note a correction: It's > like My God Vs Your God...I do NOT know if any website is selling fake round one mukhi...tks aadi sacred-objects, "aadi291" <aadi291 wrote: > > Dear rudra lovers, i take the liberty to reproduce shree > chandrashekhar's phadkeji's views on ek mukhi round...i find his last > comment beautiful, true, and appealing....>>>Rudraksha field is like > the famous story of 'Five Blind Men and Elephant.' How true! It's > like My God Vs Your God...I do know if any website is selling fake or > genuine ek mukhi...but these are prone to > deception...nobody knows whether a particular member by that name > exists or not...whether he or she is from some trade website..whether > some expert is actually an expert or a hidden agent...when > groups are themselves hijacked by tradewebsites or their agents what > can we say? i only wish a gem of a person like shree richard shaw > brown who took sanyas to realise his spirituality, does not fall prey > any tradesites or agents...on groups, we cannot guarantee that all > are genuine seekers of spirituality...we cannot deny any wolf in > sheep's clothing...money, desire, ego can spoil the best of people.. > as phadkeji says, there are 350 rudra species and it is like an > elephant to blind men...what is real what is fake......i only know > that everybody gets what he or she deserves...it is the rule of karma > at work nothing else... > Holy texts, puranas and Shre Gurucharitra of Bhagwan Narsinhsarasvati > are full of the tragic tale of learned brahmins who had to suffer > > > Dear Surya, Ole and Zarembadavid, > > This is in connection with the 'Nirakar' and 'Round Ek Mukhi' > shown on the > website of Neparudraksha by Shri. Mukunda Khatiwada. I have checked > the > pictures thoroughly and have the following personal opinion. > > According to me both the beads are genuine. I think, we have to > consider here > only external characters since the theoratical rule: 'Total no. of > clefts show > equal no. of locules' is not a universal rule in the genus > Elaeocarpus. In > practice, there are exceptions to this rule. I still remember here > discussions on RBSC forum in the year 2002 by me, Mr. Suraj Raghavan, > and others > on this important aspect. > > The genus Elaeocarpus lists at least 350 species world wide. In > India we get > only 29. In India we can get beads from very few species (not more > than 4 to 5 > species). With my studies on limited no. of species, I am giving few > examples > to support my findings as under. > > OVAL THREE MUKHI : ( Indian Rudraksha ) > > Under this species we get three and four mukhi oval beads. This > species is > more common in Haridwar and Deharadun. We also get this species in > Andaman and > Nicobar islands. I have collections from Haridwar and Andaman. > > Three mukhi oval rudraksha shows only one well developed locule > and a single > seed inside it. In addition to this locule the bead shows only two > additional > minute scars. This type of beads do not show any rudimentary locules > in slit > form. Since I am a botanist, I could locate these scars. A person > who is not > from the field of botany would not be able to notice such scars in > this species. > In X-Ray pictures such scars go unnoticed. > > Four mukhi beads under this species are very rare and have similar > internal > characters as above. > > THE PERFECTLY ROUND NEPAL TWO MUKHI : (Nepal Rudraksha) > > The Perfectly Round Nepal two mukhi round bead does not show two > locules and > two seeds in it. In this connection I agree with Mr. Siddhartha who > has sent > his posting on Mr. Richard's forum. This type of bead is a > developmetal > abnormality of the normal four mukhi Nepal bead. If cut > transeversely, it > shows four locules and four seeds inside it. In X-Ray one can study > this > character in more detail. > > Two mukhi Nepal beads come in two shapes. The commonly available > is perfectly > round two mukhi, and the other is 'Pear fruit shaped', similar to > collector type > Nepal 3 Mukhi. I have not either cut or X-rayed Pear fruit type two > mukhi. > > It is interestng to note that on few reputed websites on > Rudraksha, a > beautiful perfectly round two mukhi bead is shown. If you observe > these > pictures carefully, this two mukhi bead shows two well developed > clefts or > mukhi and two more additional cuts which are not fully developed. > These > immature cuts are at the right angle of the well developed clefts. > The two mukhi > round bead shown there is definitely with four locules inside. I > have studied > this type of beads personally from my collection. If required, I > will send > images of the same on forum. > > I am not challenging the round two mukhi nature of the bead on > these websites > since cuts or clefts which are not fully developed are not considered > as mukhi > in conventional rudraksha practice. > > INTERNAL STRUCTURES OF MULTI MUKHI RUDRAKSHA BEADS : > > Theoratically, there is a general rule in the genus Elaeocarpus, > that the > total no. of clefts have equal no. of locules, however, practically, > there are > many abnormalities noticed as under. > > As we all know, locules develop under the cleft and not in between > the two > clefts. Theoratically, each such cleft should have a corresponding > well > developed locule and a seed inside it. However, it is a common > experience in > higher mukhi beads that few of the locules are not well developed > (poorly > developed) or totally absent. Such poorly developed locules are seen > as sterile > slit like structures and naturally without any seeds. Sometimes we > can notice > only poorly developed scar instead of locules under the corresponding > cleft. A > person who is not from the field of botany will not be able to > notice these > scars. > > The higher mukhi beads are very commonly constricted in the > central portion. > Clefts in this region are very close to each other. Rarely, two > clefts share a > single wall. Considering seed dimensions of rudraksha, it is > imposible to > develop healthy corresponding locules for such clefts. > > It is unfortunate that people who talk much about clefts and > locules etc. have > not studied it personally by cutting higher mukhi beads. Most of > their > observations are based on superficial studies on internal structures > of 4 to 8 > mukhi beads. The more the number of clefts the more is the > percentage of poorly > developed locules, or scars or total absence of locules/ scars as > described > above. > > I have also noticed that many of the higher mukhi beads are 'Gauri > Shankar' or > 'Trijuti' inside. One can easily see a small vertical partition/s > from the hole > on the top. If such beads are observed from bottom side or tail > region, one can > notice two or three holes of such fused beads. External wall of such > beads is > continuous giving the false impression of one complete bead. In > normal Gauri > Shankar fusion line is without any clefts. Few years back, beautiful > black and > white pictures of such higher mukhi beads showing Gauri Shankar > characters > inside were shown on RBSC forum of Rudra Centre. These beads were > from the > collection of Shri. Kamal Narayan Seetha as it was mentioned in the > mail. If > somebody wants to give stress on the internal characters of > rudraksha, then > higher mukhi nature of such beads will not stand on this yardstick. > > If we stress to consider external and internal characters > together, then the > highly priced rarest 21 mukhi may turn to be a combination of two to > three > lower mukhi beads inside. > > I am not critising such beads and of course of the opinion that > these beads > should be considered as higher mukhi beads based on its external > characters. > Botanically, this phenomenon is called as 'Carpellary fusion'. > > I would request the concerned students of rudraksha and website > owners to > spare some higher mukhi beads ( 9 mukhi onwards) and study these > characters > critically from their own collection and not to restrict their > opinion on > internal structures of beads from 4 to 8 mukhi. > > X-Ray test may not be a full proof solution since poorly > developed locules > and scars may go unnoticed in X-Rays. X-Ray test in rudraksha > (higher mukhi) > appears very easy, however, it is difficult to practice and to > interprete the > X-Ray images, especially of higher mukhi beads. Personally, I > practice it > regularly for Valampuri Conch. > > The inference is : Relation of clefts and locules is not a > reliable test. > There are many developmental abnormalities like in three and two > mukhi Nepal > bead. These findings are based on very few Elaeocarpus species > studied out of > 350 species worldwide. > > ROUND NEPAL EK MUKHI, DOES IT EXISTS ? > > I am of the opinion that Yes, Round Ek Mukhi does exist. The best > way to > judge round Ek Mukhi rudraksha (and also higher mukhi rudraksha) is > to observe > it critically from its head and the tail region. It is not possible > to make > any artificial changes in rudraksha stone character at these two > ends. As we > all know, in fake Ek Mukhi rudraksha beads, clefts are sealed either > with > resins or by pasteing small pieces of other rudraksha in the cleft > region. > Clefts are also sometimes skillfully removed. One can not tamper the > rudraksha > in the head or tail region. Tampered beads can easily be noticed at > these two > ends. > > To check characters of Round Ek Mukhi, critically, there is a > very simple > test to follow. One can imaginarily devide the bead in five or six > equal > sectors. Now go on checking continuity of tubercled ornamentation or > continuous > rough surface from one such imaginary sector to the other. Now, > change the set > of imaginary sectors and repeat the procedure. In a authentic bead > there is > overlapping of such continuous tubercled structures in different > sectors. > > The pictures of head and tail region of 'Nirakar Rudraksha' are > excellent and > does not show any proof that the bead is tampered. The tubercled > ornamentation > or in simple words rough surface of the bead is natural and is > continuous. This > bead is likely to show five locules inside. If you observe extreme > right hand > side image ( tail region of the bead) critically, it shows an > elevated five > armed star like structure. Head image of this bead shows few poorly > developed > cuts which are not complete. Conventionally, such imperfect cuts are > not > counted as clefts, so we need not consider such imcomplete cuts as > mukhi. > > The Rudraksha is no doubt the rarest, 'Zero Mukhi Bead'. > > In case of one mukhi bead it is necessary to give images from head > and the > tail region to support the claim of one mukhi. However, the side > image gives > the clear idea about its Ek Mukhi nature. This bead is likely to > show three to > four locules inside. With my experience, two mukhi perfectly round > Nepal bead > shows four locules inside. Such beads are generally smaller in size. > With my > experience, large authentic (with above tests) Ek mukhi Nepal bead > shows four > to five locules inside if X-Ray is taken. > > It is important to note that Mr. Mukunda Khatiwada has not claimed > that his > bead shows only one locule inside. Does not matter, the bead is no > doubt Ek > Mukhi externally. A customer has to decide whether he should give > stress on > external characters or both external and internal characters together. > > People talking so much about clefts and locules etc. should also > frankly > accept the fact that the PERFECTLY ROUND NEPAL TWO MUKHI does not > exist and is a > developmental abnormality of a NORMAL FOUR MUKHI RUDRAKSHA. > > There can not be double standards, for beads under description by > Mr. Mukunda > Khatiwada and for the perfectly round two mukhi Nepal beads shown on > few > websites. I personally accept both the beads i.e. round Ek Mukhi > and the Round > Two Mukhi judging external characters critically. > > Sometimes I imagine, if I get, a round Ek mukhi (internally) with > only one > locule and seed inside, but with many clefts outside, what will be > the reaction > ? Shall I then call such Rudraksha as 'One Mukhi Round' > or 'Multimukhi Round' > ? > > Finally, to sum up Rudraksha biology is very interesting showing > variety of > morphological abnormal characters. It also shows large abnormalities > in > developmental biology of the varity of beads. As mentioned earlier, > there are > approximately 350 species world wide. We know very few of them. > > Rudraksha field is like the famous story of 'Five Blind Men and > Elephant'. > > Thanking you and with best wishes, > > Chandrashekhar Phadke > Poona, India. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 genuine. I think, we have to consider hereonly external characters since the theoratical rule: 'Total no. of clefts showequal no. of locules' is not a universal rule in the genus Elaeocarpus. aadi291 <aadi291 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Dear rudra lovers, i take the liberty to reproduce shree chandrashekhar's phadkeji's views on ek mukhi round...i find his last comment beautiful, true, and appealing....>>>Rudraksha field is like the famous story of 'Five Blind Men and Elephant.' How true! It's like My God Vs Your God...I do know if any website is selling fake or genuine ek mukhi...but these are prone to deception...nobody knows whether a particular member by that name exists or not...whether he or she is from some trade website..whether some expert is actually an expert or a hidden agent...when are themselves hijacked by tradewebsites or their agents what can we say? i only wish a gem of a person like shree richard shaw brown who took sanyas to realise his spirituality, does not fall prey any tradesites or agents...on groups, we cannot guarantee that all are genuine seekers of spirituality...we cannot deny any wolf in sheep's clothing...money, desire, ego can spoil the best of people..as phadkeji says, there are 350 rudra species and it is like an elephant to blind men...what is real what is fake......i only know that everybody gets what he or she deserves...it is the rule of karma at work nothing else...Holy texts, puranas and Shre Gurucharitra of Bhagwan Narsinhsarasvati are full of the tragic tale of learned brahmins who had to sufferDear Surya, Ole and Zarembadavid,This is in connection with the 'Nirakar' and 'Round Ek Mukhi' shown on thewebsite of Neparudraksha by Shri. Mukunda Khatiwada. I have checked thepictures thoroughly and have the following personal opinion.According to me both the beads are genuine. I think, we have to consider hereonly external characters since the theoratical rule: 'Total no. of clefts showequal no. of locules' is not a universal rule in the genus Elaeocarpus. Inpractice, there are exceptions to this rule. I still remember herediscussions on RBSC forum in the year 2002 by me, Mr. Suraj Raghavan, and otherson this important aspect.The genus Elaeocarpus lists at least 350 species world wide. In India we getonly 29. In India we can get beads from very few species (not more than 4 to 5species). With my studies on limited no. of species, I am giving few examplesto support my findings as under.OVAL THREE MUKHI : ( Indian Rudraksha )Under this species we get three and four mukhi oval beads. This species ismore common in Haridwar and Deharadun. We also get this species in Andaman andNicobar islands. I have collections from Haridwar and Andaman.Three mukhi oval rudraksha shows only one well developed locule and a singleseed inside it. In addition to this locule the bead shows only two additional minute scars. This type of beads do not show any rudimentary locules in slitform. Since I am a botanist, I could locate these scars. A person who is notfrom the field of botany would not be able to notice such scars in this species.In X-Ray pictures such scars go unnoticed.Four mukhi beads under this species are very rare and have similar internalcharacters as above.THE PERFECTLY ROUND NEPAL TWO MUKHI : (Nepal Rudraksha)The Perfectly Round Nepal two mukhi round bead does not show two locules andtwo seeds in it. In this connection I agree with Mr. Siddhartha who has senthis posting on Mr. Richard's forum. This type of bead is a developmetalabnormality of the normal four mukhi Nepal bead. If cut transeversely, itshows four locules and four seeds inside it. In X-Ray one can study thischaracter in more detail.Two mukhi Nepal beads come in two shapes. The commonly available is perfectlyround two mukhi, and the other is 'Pear fruit shaped', similar to collector typeNepal 3 Mukhi. I have not either cut or X-rayed Pear fruit type two mukhi.It is interestng to note that on few reputed websites on Rudraksha, abeautiful perfectly round two mukhi bead is shown. If you observe thesepictures carefully, this two mukhi bead shows two well developed clefts ormukhi and two more additional cuts which are not fully developed. Theseimmature cuts are at the right angle of the well developed clefts. The two mukhiround bead shown there is definitely with four locules inside. I have studiedthis type of beads personally from my collection. If required, I will sendimages of the same on forum.I am not challenging the round two mukhi nature of the bead on these websitessince cuts or clefts which are not fully developed are not considered as mukhiin conventional rudraksha practice.INTERNAL STRUCTURES OF MULTI MUKHI RUDRAKSHA BEADS :Theoratically, there is a general rule in the genus Elaeocarpus, that the total no. of clefts have equal no. of locules, however, practically, there aremany abnormalities noticed as under.As we all know, locules develop under the cleft and not in between the twoclefts. Theoratically, each such cleft should have a corresponding welldeveloped locule and a seed inside it. However, it is a common experience inhigher mukhi beads that few of the locules are not well developed (poorlydeveloped) or totally absent. Such poorly developed locules are seen as sterileslit like structures and naturally without any seeds. Sometimes we can noticeonly poorly developed scar instead of locules under the corresponding cleft. Aperson who is not from the field of botany will not be able to notice thesescars.The higher mukhi beads are very commonly constricted in the central portion.Clefts in this region are very close to each other. Rarely, two clefts share asingle wall. Considering seed dimensions of rudraksha, it is imposible todevelop healthy corresponding locules for such clefts.It is unfortunate that people who talk much about clefts and locules etc. havenot studied it personally by cutting higher mukhi beads. Most of theirobservations are based on superficial studies on internal structures of 4 to 8mukhi beads. The more the number of clefts the more is the percentage of poorlydeveloped locules, or scars or total absence of locules/ scars as describedabove.I have also noticed that many of the higher mukhi beads are 'Gauri Shankar' or'Trijuti' inside. One can easily see a small vertical partition/s from the holeon the top. If such beads are observed from bottom side or tail region, one cannotice two or three holes of such fused beads. External wall of such beads iscontinuous giving the false impression of one complete bead. In normal GauriShankar fusion line is without any clefts. Few years back, beautiful black andwhite pictures of such higher mukhi beads showing Gauri Shankar charactersinside were shown on RBSC forum of Rudra Centre. These beads were from thecollection of Shri. Kamal Narayan Seetha as it was mentioned in the mail. Ifsomebody wants to give stress on the internal characters of rudraksha, thenhigher mukhi nature of such beads will not stand on this yardstick.If we stress to consider external and internal characters together, then thehighly priced rarest 21 mukhi may turn to be a combination of two to threelower mukhi beads inside.I am not critising such beads and of course of the opinion that these beadsshould be considered as higher mukhi beads based on its external characters. Botanically, this phenomenon is called as 'Carpellary fusion'.I would request the concerned students of rudraksha and website owners tospare some higher mukhi beads ( 9 mukhi onwards) and study these characterscritically from their own collection and not to restrict their opinion oninternal structures of beads from 4 to 8 mukhi.X-Ray test may not be a full proof solution since poorly developed loculesand scars may go unnoticed in X-Rays. X-Ray test in rudraksha (higher mukhi)appears very easy, however, it is difficult to practice and to interprete theX-Ray images, especially of higher mukhi beads. Personally, I practice itregularly for Valampuri Conch.The inference is : Relation of clefts and locules is not a reliable test. There are many developmental abnormalities like in three and two mukhi Nepalbead. These findings are based on very few Elaeocarpus species studied out of350 species worldwide.ROUND NEPAL EK MUKHI, DOES IT EXISTS ?I am of the opinion that Yes, Round Ek Mukhi does exist. The best way tojudge round Ek Mukhi rudraksha (and also higher mukhi rudraksha) is to observeit critically from its head and the tail region. It is not possible to makeany artificial changes in rudraksha stone character at these two ends. As weall know, in fake Ek Mukhi rudraksha beads, clefts are sealed either withresins or by pasteing small pieces of other rudraksha in the cleft region.Clefts are also sometimes skillfully removed. One can not tamper the rudrakshain the head or tail region. Tampered beads can easily be noticed at these twoends.To check characters of Round Ek Mukhi, critically, there is a very simpletest to follow. One can imaginarily devide the bead in five or six equalsectors. Now go on checking continuity of tubercled ornamentation or continuousrough surface from one such imaginary sector to the other. Now, change the setof imaginary sectors and repeat the procedure. In a authentic bead there isoverlapping of such continuous tubercled structures in different sectors.The pictures of head and tail region of 'Nirakar Rudraksha' are excellent anddoes not show any proof that the bead is tampered. The tubercled ornamentation or in simple words rough surface of the bead is natural and is continuous. Thisbead is likely to show five locules inside. If you observe extreme right handside image ( tail region of the bead) critically, it shows an elevated fivearmed star like structure. Head image of this bead shows few poorly developedcuts which are not complete. Conventionally, such imperfect cuts are notcounted as clefts, so we need not consider such imcomplete cuts as mukhi.The Rudraksha is no doubt the rarest, 'Zero Mukhi Bead'.In case of one mukhi bead it is necessary to give images from head and thetail region to support the claim of one mukhi. However, the side image givesthe clear idea about its Ek Mukhi nature. This bead is likely to show three tofour locules inside. With my experience, two mukhi perfectly round Nepal beadshows four locules inside. Such beads are generally smaller in size. With myexperience, large authentic (with above tests) Ek mukhi Nepal bead shows fourto five locules inside if X-Ray is taken.It is important to note that Mr. Mukunda Khatiwada has not claimed that hisbead shows only one locule inside. Does not matter, the bead is no doubt EkMukhi externally. A customer has to decide whether he should give stress onexternal characters or both external and internal characters together.People talking so much about clefts and locules etc. should also franklyaccept the fact that the PERFECTLY ROUND NEPAL TWO MUKHI does not exist and is adevelopmental abnormality of a NORMAL FOUR MUKHI RUDRAKSHA.There can not be double standards, for beads under description by Mr. MukundaKhatiwada and for the perfectly round two mukhi Nepal beads shown on fewwebsites. I personally accept both the beads i.e. round Ek Mukhi and the RoundTwo Mukhi judging external characters critically.Sometimes I imagine, if I get, a round Ek mukhi (internally) with only onelocule and seed inside, but with many clefts outside, what will be the reaction? Shall I then call such Rudraksha as 'One Mukhi Round' or 'Multimukhi Round'?Finally, to sum up Rudraksha biology is very interesting showing variety ofmorphological abnormal characters. It also shows large abnormalities indevelopmental biology of the varity of beads. As mentioned earlier, there areapproximately 350 species world wide. We know very few of them.Rudraksha field is like the famous story of 'Five Blind Men and Elephant'.Thanking you and with best wishes,Chandrashekhar PhadkePoona, India.------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healinghttp://us.click./lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/XUWolB/TM--~-> Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:sacred-objects/<*> To from this group, send an email to:sacred-objects<*> Your Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 you noticed ever a 2 ot 3 years old well formed bead ( not ever worn) if cut laterally have its seeds still wet.. Pl reply. Siddharth > This is in connection with the 'Nirakar' and 'Round Ek Mukhi' > shown on the> website of Neparudraksha by Shri. Mukunda Khatiwada. I have checked > the> pictures thoroughly and have the following personal opinion.> > According to me both the beads are genuine. I think, we have to > consider here> only external characters since the theoratical rule: 'Total no. of > clefts show> equal no. of locules' is not a universal rule in the genus > Elaeocarpus. In> practice, there are exceptions to this rule. I still remember here> discussions on RBSC forum in the year 2002 by me, Mr. Suraj Raghavan, > and others> on this important aspect.> > The genus Elaeocarpus lists at least 350 species world wide. In > India we getaadi291 <aadi291 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Hi, please note a correction: It's > like My God Vs Your God...I do NOT know if any website is selling fake round one mukhi...tks aadi--- In sacred-objects, "aadi291" wrote:>> Dear rudra lovers, i take the liberty to reproduce shree > chandrashekhar's phadkeji's views on ek mukhi round...i find his last > comment beautiful, true, and appealing....>>>Rudraksha field is like > the famous story of 'Five Blind Men and Elephant.' How true! It's > like My God Vs Your God...I do know if any website is selling fake or > genuine ek mukhi...but these are prone to > deception...nobody knows whether a particular member by that name > exists or not...whether he or she is from some trade website..whether > some expert is actually an expert or a hidden agent...when > groups are themselves hijacked by tradewebsites or their agents what > can we say? i only wish a gem of a person like shree richard shaw > brown who took sanyas to realise his spirituality, does not fall prey > any tradesites or agents...on groups, we cannot guarantee that all > are genuine seekers of spirituality...we cannot deny any wolf in > sheep's clothing...money, desire, ego can spoil the best of people..> as phadkeji says, there are 350 rudra species and it is like an > elephant to blind men...what is real what is fake......i only know > that everybody gets what he or she deserves...it is the rule of karma > at work nothing else...> Holy texts, puranas and Shre Gurucharitra of Bhagwan Narsinhsarasvati > are full of the tragic tale of learned brahmins who had to suffer> > > Dear Surya, Ole and Zarembadavid,> > This is in connection with the 'Nirakar' and 'Round Ek Mukhi' > shown on the> website of Neparudraksha by Shri. Mukunda Khatiwada. I have checked > the> pictures thoroughly and have the following personal opinion.> > According to me both the beads are genuine. I think, we have to > consider here> only external characters since the theoratical rule: 'Total no. of > clefts show> equal no. of locules' is not a universal rule in the genus > Elaeocarpus. In> practice, there are exceptions to this rule. I still remember here> discussions on RBSC forum in the year 2002 by me, Mr. Suraj Raghavan, > and others> on this important aspect.> > The genus Elaeocarpus lists at least 350 species world wide. In > India we get> only 29. In India we can get beads from very few species (not more > than 4 to 5> species). With my studies on limited no. of species, I am giving few > examples> to support my findings as under.> > OVAL THREE MUKHI : ( Indian Rudraksha )> > Under this species we get three and four mukhi oval beads. This > species is> more common in Haridwar and Deharadun. We also get this species in > Andaman and> Nicobar islands. I have collections from Haridwar and Andaman.> > Three mukhi oval rudraksha shows only one well developed locule > and a single> seed inside it. In addition to this locule the bead shows only two > additional > minute scars. This type of beads do not show any rudimentary locules > in slit> form. Since I am a botanist, I could locate these scars. A person > who is not> from the field of botany would not be able to notice such scars in > this species.> In X-Ray pictures such scars go unnoticed.> > Four mukhi beads under this species are very rare and have similar > internal> characters as above.> > THE PERFECTLY ROUND NEPAL TWO MUKHI : (Nepal Rudraksha)> > The Perfectly Round Nepal two mukhi round bead does not show two > locules and> two seeds in it. In this connection I agree with Mr. Siddhartha who > has sent> his posting on Mr. Richard's forum. This type of bead is a > developmetal> abnormality of the normal four mukhi Nepal bead. If cut > transeversely, it> shows four locules and four seeds inside it. In X-Ray one can study > this> character in more detail.> > Two mukhi Nepal beads come in two shapes. The commonly available > is perfectly> round two mukhi, and the other is 'Pear fruit shaped', similar to > collector type> Nepal 3 Mukhi. I have not either cut or X-rayed Pear fruit type two > mukhi.> > It is interestng to note that on few reputed websites on > Rudraksha, a> beautiful perfectly round two mukhi bead is shown. If you observe > these> pictures carefully, this two mukhi bead shows two well developed > clefts or> mukhi and two more additional cuts which are not fully developed. > These> immature cuts are at the right angle of the well developed clefts. > The two mukhi> round bead shown there is definitely with four locules inside. I > have studied> this type of beads personally from my collection. If required, I > will send> images of the same on forum.> > I am not challenging the round two mukhi nature of the bead on > these websites> since cuts or clefts which are not fully developed are not considered > as mukhi> in conventional rudraksha practice.> > INTERNAL STRUCTURES OF MULTI MUKHI RUDRAKSHA BEADS :> > Theoratically, there is a general rule in the genus Elaeocarpus, > that the > total no. of clefts have equal no. of locules, however, practically, > there are> many abnormalities noticed as under.> > As we all know, locules develop under the cleft and not in between > the two> clefts. Theoratically, each such cleft should have a corresponding > well> developed locule and a seed inside it. However, it is a common > experience in> higher mukhi beads that few of the locules are not well developed > (poorly> developed) or totally absent. Such poorly developed locules are seen > as sterile> slit like structures and naturally without any seeds. Sometimes we > can notice> only poorly developed scar instead of locules under the corresponding > cleft. A> person who is not from the field of botany will not be able to > notice these> scars.> > The higher mukhi beads are very commonly constricted in the > central portion.> Clefts in this region are very close to each other. Rarely, two > clefts share a> single wall. Considering seed dimensions of rudraksha, it is > imposible to> develop healthy corresponding locules for such clefts.> > It is unfortunate that people who talk much about clefts and > locules etc. have> not studied it personally by cutting higher mukhi beads. Most of > their> observations are based on superficial studies on internal structures > of 4 to 8> mukhi beads. The more the number of clefts the more is the > percentage of poorly> developed locules, or scars or total absence of locules/ scars as > described> above.> > I have also noticed that many of the higher mukhi beads are 'Gauri > Shankar' or> 'Trijuti' inside. One can easily see a small vertical partition/s > from the hole> on the top. If such beads are observed from bottom side or tail > region, one can> notice two or three holes of such fused beads. External wall of such > beads is> continuous giving the false impression of one complete bead. In > normal Gauri> Shankar fusion line is without any clefts. Few years back, beautiful > black and> white pictures of such higher mukhi beads showing Gauri Shankar > characters> inside were shown on RBSC forum of Rudra Centre. These beads were > from the> collection of Shri. Kamal Narayan Seetha as it was mentioned in the > mail. If> somebody wants to give stress on the internal characters of > rudraksha, then> higher mukhi nature of such beads will not stand on this yardstick.> > If we stress to consider external and internal characters > together, then the> highly priced rarest 21 mukhi may turn to be a combination of two to > three> lower mukhi beads inside.> > I am not critising such beads and of course of the opinion that > these beads> should be considered as higher mukhi beads based on its external > characters. > Botanically, this phenomenon is called as 'Carpellary fusion'.> > I would request the concerned students of rudraksha and website > owners to> spare some higher mukhi beads ( 9 mukhi onwards) and study these > characters> critically from their own collection and not to restrict their > opinion on> internal structures of beads from 4 to 8 mukhi.> > X-Ray test may not be a full proof solution since poorly > developed locules> and scars may go unnoticed in X-Rays. X-Ray test in rudraksha > (higher mukhi)> appears very easy, however, it is difficult to practice and to > interprete the> X-Ray images, especially of higher mukhi beads. Personally, I > practice it> regularly for Valampuri Conch.> > The inference is : Relation of clefts and locules is not a > reliable test. > There are many developmental abnormalities like in three and two > mukhi Nepal> bead. These findings are based on very few Elaeocarpus species > studied out of> 350 species worldwide.> > ROUND NEPAL EK MUKHI, DOES IT EXISTS ?> > I am of the opinion that Yes, Round Ek Mukhi does exist. The best > way to> judge round Ek Mukhi rudraksha (and also higher mukhi rudraksha) is > to observe> it critically from its head and the tail region. It is not possible > to make> any artificial changes in rudraksha stone character at these two > ends. As we> all know, in fake Ek Mukhi rudraksha beads, clefts are sealed either > with> resins or by pasteing small pieces of other rudraksha in the cleft > region.> Clefts are also sometimes skillfully removed. One can not tamper the > rudraksha> in the head or tail region. Tampered beads can easily be noticed at > these two> ends.> > To check characters of Round Ek Mukhi, critically, there is a > very simple> test to follow. One can imaginarily devide the bead in five or six > equal> sectors. Now go on checking continuity of tubercled ornamentation or > continuous> rough surface from one such imaginary sector to the other. Now, > change the set> of imaginary sectors and repeat the procedure. In a authentic bead > there is> overlapping of such continuous tubercled structures in different > sectors.> > The pictures of head and tail region of 'Nirakar Rudraksha' are > excellent and> does not show any proof that the bead is tampered. The tubercled > ornamentation > or in simple words rough surface of the bead is natural and is > continuous. This> bead is likely to show five locules inside. If you observe extreme > right hand> side image ( tail region of the bead) critically, it shows an > elevated five> armed star like structure. Head image of this bead shows few poorly > developed> cuts which are not complete. Conventionally, such imperfect cuts are > not> counted as clefts, so we need not consider such imcomplete cuts as > mukhi.> > The Rudraksha is no doubt the rarest, 'Zero Mukhi Bead'.> > In case of one mukhi bead it is necessary to give images from head > and the> tail region to support the claim of one mukhi. However, the side > image gives> the clear idea about its Ek Mukhi nature. This bead is likely to > show three to> four locules inside. With my experience, two mukhi perfectly round > Nepal bead> shows four locules inside. Such beads are generally smaller in size. > With my> experience, large authentic (with above tests) Ek mukhi Nepal bead > shows four> to five locules inside if X-Ray is taken.> > It is important to note that Mr. Mukunda Khatiwada has not claimed > that his> bead shows only one locule inside. Does not matter, the bead is no > doubt Ek> Mukhi externally. A customer has to decide whether he should give > stress on> external characters or both external and internal characters together.> > People talking so much about clefts and locules etc. should also > frankly> accept the fact that the PERFECTLY ROUND NEPAL TWO MUKHI does not > exist and is a> developmental abnormality of a NORMAL FOUR MUKHI RUDRAKSHA.> > There can not be double standards, for beads under description by > Mr. Mukunda> Khatiwada and for the perfectly round two mukhi Nepal beads shown on > few> websites. I personally accept both the beads i.e. round Ek Mukhi > and the Round> Two Mukhi judging external characters critically.> > Sometimes I imagine, if I get, a round Ek mukhi (internally) with > only one> locule and seed inside, but with many clefts outside, what will be > the reaction> ? Shall I then call such Rudraksha as 'One Mukhi Round' > or 'Multimukhi Round'> ?> > Finally, to sum up Rudraksha biology is very interesting showing > variety of> morphological abnormal characters. It also shows large abnormalities > in> developmental biology of the varity of beads. As mentioned earlier, > there are> approximately 350 species world wide. We know very few of them.> > Rudraksha field is like the famous story of 'Five Blind Men and > Elephant'.> > Thanking you and with best wishes,> > Chandrashekhar Phadke> Poona, India.>------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healinghttp://us.click./lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/XUWolB/TM--~-> Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:sacred-objects/<*> To from this group, send an email to:sacred-objects<*> Your use of is subject to: Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, &; more on new and used cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 female gametes. However, in many of the plant species, male and female gametes from the same flower do not mature at the same time to avoid selfing. They mature at different time to promote cross pollination. Do you know, Why ? For the production of a better progeny in the next generation. Flowers have beautiful colours, nector to attract insects which carry pollen grains (male gametes) to the other flower, plants flowering in the night have necessarily white flowers and fragnance to attract insects having nocturnal habitat. This is the process of evolution. Nature's law is : 'Survival of the Fittest' Coming back to the genus Elaeocarpus, five mukhi is a general rule, rest are all variations. I agree that it is a general rule for the genus that equal no. of clefts should produce equal no. of seeds. However, it is observed that more the no. of clefts more is the no. of sterile or poorly developed locules which are in slit form, or just shows their presence by a scar. The possible explanation is to avoid formation of more no. of week seeds. Instead, if food supply is diverted to only few seeds, then those seeds will be more healthy to produce good plants. If it is so, then why plant produces more no. clefts and supposed to be locules with ovules ? The answer is very difficult to predict. If you think scientifically, the higher mukhi beads are always very rare. There may be two reasons : 1) More no. of clefts is treated as a abnormality by the nature and therefore percentage of higher mukhi beads goes on decreasing. 2) We do not know, the plant may be under the process of evolution. If you study carefully, five mukhi bead is more thick and sturdy. It is difficult for the seed to germinate and to break the hard endocarp or stone (Rudraksha) to produce plant. Higher mukhi beads are not that sturdy and hard as compared to five mukhi beads. This may be useful for inner seeds to germinate more easily to produce plants. Total no. of Rudraksha plants are decreasing fast from the nature for the reason that germination percentage is very less due to thick stone and collection of beads for trade. There are few good articles on ecology of rudraksha tree have been published by Dr. Khan from Arunachal Pradesh. If you take example of domestic animals like cats and dogs. The more the no. of kittens, more is the percentage of week kittens which eventually die within few days. Then why cat produces kittens after every 6 months ? and that too in more nos. upto 5 ? The answer is young ones are likely to die in nature due to the lack of food, attack from predators, lack of immunity, etc. but survival of the species is a priority of the mother nature. Therefore more no. of young ones are produced frequently in many small animals. The inference is : more no. of sterile locules or very poor locules either in slitform or in the form of a scar, or its total absence is not a abnormality. It may be related to Nature's Laws. Rudraksha Abnormalities : Under the genus Elaeocarpus there are approximately 350 species worldwide. In India we get only 29. More no. of species are in the Indonesian belt. In rudraksha morphology there are many abnormalities as under. Ganesh rudraksha, Gauri Shankar Rudraksha, Trijuti Rudraksha, Savar or Brahma or Ishwar rudraksha, Nag rudraksha etc are all morphological abnormalities. The Cashewnut shaped Ek Mukhi Rudraksha is also a abnormality under the species Elaeocarpus tuberculatus. As I had stated in one of my earlier posting, E. tuberculatus produces two mukhi flat beads as a rule, however produces cashewnut ek mukhi, cashewnut two mukhi, flat three and four mukhi etc. as abnormalities under the same species. Intererstingly flat two mukhi beads are wrongly treated as 'Bhadraksha' and the abnormality 'Crescent shaped Ek Mukhi' is praised as a King of Rudraksha. These are all genetic abnormalities. Genetic abnormalites are likely to lead for the formation of new species. We give names to such rudraksha based on their morphological characters. Few commercial people also attach properties to it. It is funny. Rurdaksha Energy : Personally I do not feel any rudraksha energy or vibrations. However, there are people who feel it. There is one interesting example. I was given a rudraksha by a Sanyasi at pilgrim place Akkalkot in Maharashtra. One day a fellow from Delhi on his visit to Poona came to my place to see my collection. He was talking about rudraksha energy. I gave him two similar beads. The one given to me by a Sanyasi and the other normal bead. The person was holding both the beads in his hand for half an hour. Interestingly, he asked me the history of the Sadhu's bead. I asked the reason. He told me that the bead has tremendous energy. However, the other bead has no energy. The most interesting part is that the first bead was in Sanyasi's sadhana for more than 40 years. The second was hardly two years old and was not used in any sadhana. There is no answer for this in modern science. However, we can give the explanation as per our heritage that the bead must have accumulated energy during sadhana for a very long period. Personally I am of the opinion that the commonly available 5 mukhi bead is also equally good for sadhana than expensive beads. However, effects of rudraksha may be more related to the well developed science of Numeroloty. Cost of the beads is for its rarity. Healthy Rudraksha Stones and Seeds : Rudraksha seeds remain healthy and with some moisture in it for many years if protected well from moisture, insect and fungus attack. Lower mukhi rudraksha are more healthy and durable than higher mukhi beads. Indonesian beads are more durable and resistant to insect and fungus attack than Nepal beads. The Indian oval beads are more sturdy than any other rudraksha types. Five and Six mukhi beads are also more durable than any other beads. Thanking you and with best wishes, Chandrashekhar Phadke, Poona, India. Siddharth Mishra <sidhmis > wrote: Dear Mr. Phadke, If we have to go by the external features only then why at all we worried when the rudraksha is artificially carved with more lines. In my opinion a good Rudraksha is that which has seeds equal to its mukhs. Dont you feel that it is a defect in the Rudraksha if the the no. of locule's are not equal to the mukhs ? I personally feel that in living organisms for example in the human beings there are children born with not fully devloped organs, like few children are born menatally retarded, few are born with 6 fingers on their hands, so we cannot consider that child like a normal child. Similarly if a Rudraksh is devloped not completely then it should not be considered as normal one. Secondly what is your opinion about the exact energy source of a Rudraksha. Is it seeds inside or it is its external features. Have you noticed ever a 2 ot 3 years old well formed bead ( not ever worn) if cut laterally have its seeds still wet.. Pl reply. Siddharth > This is in connection with the 'Nirakar' and 'Round Ek Mukhi' > shown on the> website of Neparudraksha by Shri. Mukunda Khatiwada. I have checked > the> pictures thoroughly and have the following personal opinion.> > According to me both the beads are genuine. I think, we have to > consider here> only external characters since the theoratical rule: 'Total no. of > clefts show> equal no. of locules' is not a universal rule in the genus > Elaeocarpus. In> practice, there are exceptions to this rule. I still remember here> discussions on RBSC forum in the year 2002 by me, Mr. Suraj Raghavan, > and others> on this important aspect.> > The genus Elaeocarpus lists at least 350 species world wide. In > India we getaadi291 <aadi291 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Hi, please note a correction: It's > like My God Vs Your God...I do NOT know if any website is selling fake round one mukhi...tks aadisacred-objects, "aadi291" wrote:>> Dear rudra lovers, i take the liberty to reproduce shree > chandrashekhar's phadkeji's views on ek mukhi round...i find his last > comment beautiful, true, and appealing....>>>Rudraksha field is like > the famous story of 'Five Blind Men and Elephant.' How true! It's > like My God Vs Your God...I do know if any website is selling fake or > genuine ek mukhi...but these are prone to > deception...nobody knows whether a particular member by that name > exists or not...whether he or she is from some trade website..whether > some expert is actually an expert or a hidden agent...when > groups are themselves hijacked by tradewebsites or their agents what > can we say? i only wish a gem of a person like shree richard shaw > brown who took sanyas to realise his spirituality, does not fall prey > any tradesites or agents...on groups, we cannot guarantee that all > are genuine seekers of spirituality...we cannot deny any wolf in > sheep's clothing...money, desire, ego can spoil the best of people..> as phadkeji says, there are 350 rudra species and it is like an > elephant to blind men...what is real what is fake......i only know > that everybody gets what he or she deserves...it is the rule of karma > at work nothing else...> Holy texts, puranas and Shre Gurucharitra of Bhagwan Narsinhsarasvati > are full of the tragic tale of learned brahmins who had to suffer> > > Dear Surya, Ole and Zarembadavid,> > This is in connection with the 'Nirakar' and 'Round Ek Mukhi' > shown on the> website of Neparudraksha by Shri. Mukunda Khatiwada. I have checked > the> pictures thoroughly and have the following personal opinion.> > According to me both the beads are genuine. I think, we have to > consider here> only external characters since the theoratical rule: 'Total no. of > clefts show> equal no. of locules' is not a universal rule in the genus > Elaeocarpus. In> practice, there are exceptions to this rule. I still remember here> discussions on RBSC forum in the year 2002 by me, Mr. Suraj Raghavan, > and others> on this important aspect.> > The genus Elaeocarpus lists at least 350 species world wide. In > India we get> only 29. In India we can get beads from very few species (not more > than 4 to 5> species). With my studies on limited no. of species, I am giving few > examples> to support my findings as under.> > OVAL THREE MUKHI : ( Indian Rudraksha )> > Under this species we get three and four mukhi oval beads. This > species is> more common in Haridwar and Deharadun. We also get this species in > Andaman and> Nicobar islands. I have collections from Haridwar and Andaman.> > Three mukhi oval rudraksha shows only one well developed locule > and a single> seed inside it. In addition to this locule the bead shows only two > additional > minute scars. This type of beads do not show any rudimentary locules > in slit> form. Since I am a botanist, I could locate these scars. A person > who is not> from the field of botany would not be able to notice such scars in > this species.> In X-Ray pictures such scars go unnoticed.> > Four mukhi beads under this species are very rare and have similar > internal> characters as above.> > THE PERFECTLY ROUND NEPAL TWO MUKHI : (Nepal Rudraksha)> > The Perfectly Round Nepal two mukhi round bead does not show two > locules and> two seeds in it. In this connection I agree with Mr. Siddhartha who > has sent> his posting on Mr. Richard's forum. This type of bead is a > developmetal> abnormality of the normal four mukhi Nepal bead. If cut > transeversely, it> shows four locules and four seeds inside it. In X-Ray one can study > this> character in more detail.> > Two mukhi Nepal beads come in two shapes. The commonly available > is perfectly> round two mukhi, and the other is 'Pear fruit shaped', similar to > collector type> Nepal 3 Mukhi. I have not either cut or X-rayed Pear fruit type two > mukhi.> > It is interestng to note that on few reputed websites on > Rudraksha, a> beautiful perfectly round two mukhi bead is shown. If you observe > these> pictures carefully, this two mukhi bead shows two well developed > clefts or> mukhi and two more additional cuts which are not fully developed. > These> immature cuts are at the right angle of the well developed clefts. > The two mukhi> round bead shown there is definitely with four locules inside. I > have studied> this type of beads personally from my collection. If required, I > will send> images of the same on forum.> > I am not challenging the round two mukhi nature of the bead on > these websites> since cuts or clefts which are not fully developed are not considered > as mukhi> in conventional rudraksha practice.> > INTERNAL STRUCTURES OF MULTI MUKHI RUDRAKSHA BEADS :> > Theoratically, there is a general rule in the genus Elaeocarpus, > that the > total no. of clefts have equal no. of locules, however, practically, > there are> many abnormalities noticed as under.> > As we all know, locules develop under the cleft and not in between > the two> clefts. Theoratically, each such cleft should have a corresponding > well> developed locule and a seed inside it. However, it is a common > experience in> higher mukhi beads that few of the locules are not well developed > (poorly> developed) or totally absent. Such poorly developed locules are seen > as sterile> slit like structures and naturally without any seeds. Sometimes we > can notice> only poorly developed scar instead of locules under the corresponding > cleft. A> person who is not from the field of botany will not be able to > notice these> scars.> > The higher mukhi beads are very commonly constricted in the > central portion.> Clefts in this region are very close to each other. Rarely, two > clefts share a> single wall. Considering seed dimensions of rudraksha, it is > imposible to> develop healthy corresponding locules for such clefts.> > It is unfortunate that people who talk much about clefts and > locules etc. have> not studied it personally by cutting higher mukhi beads. Most of > their> observations are based on superficial studies on internal structures > of 4 to 8> mukhi beads. The more the number of clefts the more is the > percentage of poorly> developed locules, or scars or total absence of locules/ scars as > described> above.> > I have also noticed that many of the higher mukhi beads are 'Gauri > Shankar' or> 'Trijuti' inside. One can easily see a small vertical partition/s > from the hole> on the top. If such beads are observed from bottom side or tail > region, one can> notice two or three holes of such fused beads. External wall of such > beads is> continuous giving the false impression of one complete bead. In > normal Gauri> Shankar fusion line is without any clefts. Few years back, beautiful > black and> white pictures of such higher mukhi beads showing Gauri Shankar > characters> inside were shown on RBSC forum of Rudra Centre. These beads were > from the> collection of Shri. Kamal Narayan Seetha as it was mentioned in the > mail. If> somebody wants to give stress on the internal characters of > rudraksha, then> higher mukhi nature of such beads will not stand on this yardstick.> > If we stress to consider external and internal characters > together, then the> highly priced rarest 21 mukhi may turn to be a combination of two to > three> lower mukhi beads inside.> > I am not critising such beads and of course of the opinion that > these beads> should be considered as higher mukhi beads based on its external > characters. > Botanically, this phenomenon is called as 'Carpellary fusion'.> > I would request the concerned students of rudraksha and website > owners to> spare some higher mukhi beads ( 9 mukhi onwards) and study these > characters> critically from their own collection and not to restrict their > opinion on> internal structures of beads from 4 to 8 mukhi.> > X-Ray test may not be a full proof solution since poorly > developed locules> and scars may go unnoticed in X-Rays. X-Ray test in rudraksha > (higher mukhi)> appears very easy, however, it is difficult to practice and to > interprete the> X-Ray images, especially of higher mukhi beads. Personally, I > practice it> regularly for Valampuri Conch.> > The inference is : Relation of clefts and locules is not a > reliable test. > There are many developmental abnormalities like in three and two > mukhi Nepal> bead. These findings are based on very few Elaeocarpus species > studied out of> 350 species worldwide.> > ROUND NEPAL EK MUKHI, DOES IT EXISTS ?> > I am of the opinion that Yes, Round Ek Mukhi does exist. The best > way to> judge round Ek Mukhi rudraksha (and also higher mukhi rudraksha) is > to observe> it critically from its head and the tail region. It is not possible > to make> any artificial changes in rudraksha stone character at these two > ends. As we> all know, in fake Ek Mukhi rudraksha beads, clefts are sealed either > with> resins or by pasteing small pieces of other rudraksha in the cleft > region.> Clefts are also sometimes skillfully removed. One can not tamper the > rudraksha> in the head or tail region. Tampered beads can easily be noticed at > these two> ends.> > To check characters of Round Ek Mukhi, critically, there is a > very simple> test to follow. One can imaginarily devide the bead in five or six > equal> sectors. Now go on checking continuity of tubercled ornamentation or > continuous> rough surface from one such imaginary sector to the other. Now, > change the set> of imaginary sectors and repeat the procedure. In a authentic bead > there is> overlapping of such continuous tubercled structures in different > sectors.> > The pictures of head and tail region of 'Nirakar Rudraksha' are > excellent and> does not show any proof that the bead is tampered. The tubercled > ornamentation > or in simple words rough surface of the bead is natural and is > continuous. This> bead is likely to show five locules inside. If you observe extreme > right hand> side image ( tail region of the bead) critically, it shows an > elevated five> armed star like structure. Head image of this bead shows few poorly > developed> cuts which are not complete. Conventionally, such imperfect cuts are > not> counted as clefts, so we need not consider such imcomplete cuts as > mukhi.> > The Rudraksha is no doubt the rarest, 'Zero Mukhi Bead'.> > In case of one mukhi bead it is necessary to give images from head > and the> tail region to support the claim of one mukhi. However, the side > image gives> the clear idea about its Ek Mukhi nature. This bead is likely to > show three to> four locules inside. With my experience, two mukhi perfectly round > Nepal bead> shows four locules inside. Such beads are generally smaller in size. > With my> experience, large authentic (with above tests) Ek mukhi Nepal bead > shows four> to five locules inside if X-Ray is taken.> > It is important to note that Mr. Mukunda Khatiwada has not claimed > that his> bead shows only one locule inside. Does not matter, the bead is no > doubt Ek> Mukhi externally. A customer has to decide whether he should give > stress on> external characters or both external and internal characters together.> > People talking so much about clefts and locules etc. should also > frankly> accept the fact that the PERFECTLY ROUND NEPAL TWO MUKHI does not > exist and is a> developmental abnormality of a NORMAL FOUR MUKHI RUDRAKSHA.> > There can not be double standards, for beads under description by > Mr. Mukunda> Khatiwada and for the perfectly round two mukhi Nepal beads shown on > few> websites. I personally accept both the beads i.e. round Ek Mukhi > and the Round> Two Mukhi judging external characters critically.> > Sometimes I imagine, if I get, a round Ek mukhi (internally) with > only one> locule and seed inside, but with many clefts outside, what will be > the reaction> ? Shall I then call such Rudraksha as 'One Mukhi Round' > or 'Multimukhi Round'> ?> > Finally, to sum up Rudraksha biology is very interesting showing > variety of> morphological abnormal characters. It also shows large abnormalities > in> developmental biology of the varity of beads. As mentioned earlier, > there are> approximately 350 species world wide. We know very few of them.> > Rudraksha field is like the famous story of 'Five Blind Men and > Elephant'.> > Thanking you and with best wishes,> > Chandrashekhar Phadke> Poona, India.>------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healinghttp://us.click./lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/XUWolB/TM--~-> Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:sacred-objects/<*> To from this group, send an email to:sacred-objects<*> Your use of is subject to: Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. 9;s eye Bona fide Yellow sapphire Conch shell Blue sapphires Jiyo cricket on India cricket Messenger Mobile Stay in touch with your buddies all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 It was six men of Indostan To learning much inclined, Who went to see the Elephant (Though all of them were blind), That each by observation Might satisfy his mind The First approached the Elephant, And happening to fall Against his broad and sturdy side, At once began to bawl: "God bless me! but the Elephant Is very like a wall!" The Second, feeling of the tusk, Cried, "Ho! what have we here So very round and smooth and sharp? To me 'tis mighty clear This wonder of an Elephant Is very like a spear!" The Third approached the animal, And happening to take The squirming trunk within his hands, Thus boldly up and spake: "I see," quoth he, "the Elephant Is very like a snake!" The Fourth reached out an eager hand, And felt about the knee. "What most this wondrous beast is like Is mighty plain," quoth he; " 'Tis clear enough the Elephant Is very like a tree!" The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear, Said: "E'en the blindest man Can tell what this resembles most; Deny the fact who can This marvel of an Elephant Is very like a fan!" The Sixth no sooner had begun About the beast to grope, Than, seizing on the swinging tail That fell within his scope, "I see," quoth he, "the Elephant Is very like a rope!" And so these men of Indostan Disputed loud and long, Each in his own opinion Exceeding stiff and strong, Though each was partly in the right, And all were in the wrong! So oft in theologic wars, The disputants, I ween, Rail on in utter ignorance Of what each other mean, And prate about an Elephant Not one of them has seen!Thanks and RegardsBharatOn 2/23/06, Siddharth Mishra < sidhmis > wrote: Dear Mr. Phadke, If we have to go by the external features only then why at all we worried when the rudraksha is artificially carved with more lines. In my opinion a good Rudraksha is that which has seeds equal to its mukhs. Dont you feel that it is a defect in the Rudraksha if the the no. of locule's are not equal to the mukhs ? I personally feel that in living organisms for example in the human beings there are children born with not fully devloped organs, like few children are born menatally retarded, few are born with 6 fingers on their hands, so we cannot consider that child like a normal child. Similarly if a Rudraksh is devloped not completely then it should not be considered as normal one. Secondly what is your opinion about the exact energy source of a Rudraksha. Is it seeds inside or it is its external features. Have you noticed ever a 2 ot 3 years old well formed bead ( not ever worn) if cut laterally have its seeds still wet.. Pl reply. Siddharth > This is in connection with the 'Nirakar' and 'Round Ek Mukhi' > shown on the> website of Neparudraksha by Shri. Mukunda Khatiwada. I have checked > the> pictures thoroughly and have the following personal opinion. > > According to me both the beads are genuine. I think, we have to > consider here> only external characters since the theoratical rule: 'Total no. of > clefts show> equal no. of locules' is not a universal rule in the genus > Elaeocarpus. In> practice, there are exceptions to this rule. I still remember here> discussions on RBSC forum in the year 2002 by me, Mr. Suraj Raghavan, > and others> on this important aspect.> > The genus Elaeocarpus lists at least 350 species world wide. In > India we getaadi291 < aadi291 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Hi, please note a correction: It's > like My God Vs Your God...I do NOT know if any website is selling fake round one mukhi...tks aadi sacred-objects, "aadi291" wrote:>> Dear rudra lovers, i take the liberty to reproduce shree > chandrashekhar's phadkeji's views on ek mukhi round...i find his last > comment beautiful, true, and appealing....>>>Rudraksha field is like > the famous story of 'Five Blind Men and Elephant.' How true! It's > like My God Vs Your God...I do know if any website is selling fake or > genuine ek mukhi...but these are prone to > deception...nobody knows whether a particular member by that name > exists or not...whether he or she is from some trade website..whether > some expert is actually an expert or a hidden agent...when > groups are themselves hijacked by tradewebsites or their agents what > can we say? i only wish a gem of a person like shree richard shaw > brown who took sanyas to realise his spirituality, does not fall prey > any tradesites or agents...on groups, we cannot guarantee that all > are genuine seekers of spirituality...we cannot deny any wolf in > sheep's clothing...money, desire, ego can spoil the best of people.. > as phadkeji says, there are 350 rudra species and it is like an > elephant to blind men...what is real what is fake......i only know > that everybody gets what he or she deserves...it is the rule of karma > at work nothing else...> Holy texts, puranas and Shre Gurucharitra of Bhagwan Narsinhsarasvati > are full of the tragic tale of learned brahmins who had to suffer> > > Dear Surya, Ole and Zarembadavid,> > This is in connection with the 'Nirakar' and 'Round Ek Mukhi' > shown on the> website of Neparudraksha by Shri. Mukunda Khatiwada. I have checked > the> pictures thoroughly and have the following personal opinion.> > According to me both the beads are genuine. I think, we have to > consider here> only external characters since the theoratical rule: 'Total no. of > clefts show> equal no. of locules' is not a universal rule in the genus > Elaeocarpus. In> practice, there are exceptions to this rule. I still remember here> discussions on RBSC forum in the year 2002 by me, Mr. Suraj Raghavan, > and others> on this important aspect.> > The genus Elaeocarpus lists at least 350 species world wide. In > India we get> only 29. In India we can get beads from very few species (not more > than 4 to 5> species). With my studies on limited no. of species, I am giving few > examples> to support my findings as under.> > OVAL THREE MUKHI : ( Indian Rudraksha )> > Under this species we get three and four mukhi oval beads. This > species is > more common in Haridwar and Deharadun. We also get this species in > Andaman and> Nicobar islands. I have collections from Haridwar and Andaman.> > Three mukhi oval rudraksha shows only one well developed locule > and a single> seed inside it. In addition to this locule the bead shows only two > additional > minute scars. This type of beads do not show any rudimentary locules > in slit > form. Since I am a botanist, I could locate these scars. A person > who is not> from the field of botany would not be able to notice such scars in > this species.> In X-Ray pictures such scars go unnoticed.> > Four mukhi beads under this species are very rare and have similar > internal> characters as above.> > THE PERFECTLY ROUND NEPAL TWO MUKHI : (Nepal Rudraksha)> > The Perfectly Round Nepal two mukhi round bead does not show two > locules and> two seeds in it. In this connection I agree with Mr. Siddhartha who > has sent> his posting on Mr. Richard's forum. This type of bead is a > developmetal> abnormality of the normal four mukhi Nepal bead. If cut > transeversely, it> shows four locules and four seeds inside it. In X-Ray one can study > this> character in more detail.> > Two mukhi Nepal beads come in two shapes. The commonly available > is perfectly> round two mukhi, and the other is 'Pear fruit shaped', similar to > collector type> Nepal 3 Mukhi. I have not either cut or X-rayed Pear fruit type two > mukhi.> > It is interestng to note that on few reputed websites on > Rudraksha, a> beautiful perfectly round two mukhi bead is shown. If you observe > these> pictures carefully, this two mukhi bead shows two well developed > clefts or> mukhi and two more additional cuts which are not fully developed. > These> immature cuts are at the right angle of the well developed clefts. > The two mukhi> round bead shown there is definitely with four locules inside. I > have studied> this type of beads personally from my collection. If required, I > will send> images of the same on forum.> > I am not challenging the round two mukhi nature of the bead on > these websites> since cuts or clefts which are not fully developed are not considered > as mukhi> in conventional rudraksha practice.> > INTERNAL STRUCTURES OF MULTI MUKHI RUDRAKSHA BEADS : > > Theoratically, there is a general rule in the genus Elaeocarpus, > that the > total no. of clefts have equal no. of locules, however, practically, > there are> many abnormalities noticed as under. > > As we all know, locules develop under the cleft and not in between > the two> clefts. Theoratically, each such cleft should have a corresponding > well> developed locule and a seed inside it. However, it is a common > experience in> higher mukhi beads that few of the locules are not well developed > (poorly> developed) or totally absent. Such poorly developed locules are seen > as sterile> slit like structures and naturally without any seeds. Sometimes we > can notice> only poorly developed scar instead of locules under the corresponding > cleft. A> person who is not from the field of botany will not be able to > notice these> scars.> > The higher mukhi beads are very commonly constricted in the > central portion.> Clefts in this region are very close to each other. Rarely, two > clefts share a > single wall. Considering seed dimensions of rudraksha, it is > imposible to> develop healthy corresponding locules for such clefts.> > It is unfortunate that people who talk much about clefts and > locules etc. have> not studied it personally by cutting higher mukhi beads. Most of > their> observations are based on superficial studies on internal structures > of 4 to 8> mukhi beads. The more the number of clefts the more is the > percentage of poorly> developed locules, or scars or total absence of locules/ scars as > described> above.> > I have also noticed that many of the higher mukhi beads are 'Gauri > Shankar' or > 'Trijuti' inside. One can easily see a small vertical partition/s > from the hole> on the top. If such beads are observed from bottom side or tail > region, one can> notice two or three holes of such fused beads. External wall of such > beads is> continuous giving the false impression of one complete bead. In > normal Gauri> Shankar fusion line is without any clefts. Few years back, beautiful > black and > white pictures of such higher mukhi beads showing Gauri Shankar > characters> inside were shown on RBSC forum of Rudra Centre. These beads were > from the> collection of Shri. Kamal Narayan Seetha as it was mentioned in the > mail. If> somebody wants to give stress on the internal characters of > rudraksha, then> higher mukhi nature of such beads will not stand on this yardstick.> > If we stress to consider external and internal characters > together, then the> highly priced rarest 21 mukhi may turn to be a combination of two to > three> lower mukhi beads inside.> > I am not critising such beads and of course of the opinion that > these beads> should be considered as higher mukhi beads based on its external > characters. > Botanically, this phenomenon is called as 'Carpellary fusion'.> > I would request the concerned students of rudraksha and website > owners to> spare some higher mukhi beads ( 9 mukhi onwards) and study these > characters> critically from their own collection and not to restrict their > opinion on> internal structures of beads from 4 to 8 mukhi.> > X-Ray test may not be a full proof solution since poorly > developed locules> and scars may go unnoticed in X-Rays. X-Ray test in rudraksha > (higher mukhi)> appears very easy, however, it is difficult to practice and to > interprete the> X-Ray images, especially of higher mukhi beads. Personally, I > practice it> regularly for Valampuri Conch.> > The inference is : Relation of clefts and locules is not a > reliable test. > There are many developmental abnormalities like in three and two > mukhi Nepal> bead. These findings are based on very few Elaeocarpus species > studied out of> 350 species worldwide. > > ROUND NEPAL EK MUKHI, DOES IT EXISTS ?> > I am of the opinion that Yes, Round Ek Mukhi does exist. The best > way to> judge round Ek Mukhi rudraksha (and also higher mukhi rudraksha) is > to observe> it critically from its head and the tail region. It is not possible > to make> any artificial changes in rudraksha stone character at these two > ends. As we> all know, in fake Ek Mukhi rudraksha beads, clefts are sealed either > with> resins or by pasteing small pieces of other rudraksha in the cleft > region.> Clefts are also sometimes skillfully removed. One can not tamper the > rudraksha> in the head or tail region. Tampered beads can easily be noticed at > these two> ends.> > To check characters of Round Ek Mukhi, critically, there is a > very simple> test to follow. One can imaginarily devide the bead in five or six > equal > sectors. Now go on checking continuity of tubercled ornamentation or > continuous> rough surface from one such imaginary sector to the other. Now, > change the set> of imaginary sectors and repeat the procedure. In a authentic bead > there is> overlapping of such continuous tubercled structures in different > sectors.> > The pictures of head and tail region of 'Nirakar Rudraksha' are > excellent and> does not show any proof that the bead is tampered. The tubercled > ornamentation > or in simple words rough surface of the bead is natural and is > continuous. This> bead is likely to show five locules inside. If you observe extreme > right hand> side image ( tail region of the bead) critically, it shows an > elevated five> armed star like structure. Head image of this bead shows few poorly > developed> cuts which are not complete. Conventionally, such imperfect cuts are > not> counted as clefts, so we need not consider such imcomplete cuts as > mukhi.> > The Rudraksha is no doubt the rarest, 'Zero Mukhi Bead'.> > In case of one mukhi bead it is necessary to give images from head > and the> tail region to support the claim of one mukhi. However, the side > image gives > the clear idea about its Ek Mukhi nature. This bead is likely to > show three to> four locules inside. With my experience, two mukhi perfectly round > Nepal bead> shows four locules inside. Such beads are generally smaller in size. > With my> experience, large authentic (with above tests) Ek mukhi Nepal bead > shows four> to five locules inside if X-Ray is taken.> > It is important to note that Mr. Mukunda Khatiwada has not claimed > that his> bead shows only one locule inside. Does not matter, the bead is no > doubt Ek> Mukhi externally. A customer has to decide whether he should give > stress on > external characters or both external and internal characters together.> > People talking so much about clefts and locules etc. should also > frankly> accept the fact that the PERFECTLY ROUND NEPAL TWO MUKHI does not > exist and is a> developmental abnormality of a NORMAL FOUR MUKHI RUDRAKSHA.> > There can not be double standards, for beads under description by > Mr. Mukunda> Khatiwada and for the perfectly round two mukhi Nepal beads shown on > few> websites. I personally accept both the beads i.e. round Ek Mukhi > and the Round> Two Mukhi judging external characters critically.> > Sometimes I imagine, if I get, a round Ek mukhi (internally) with > only one> locule and seed inside, but with many clefts outside, what will be > the reaction> ? Shall I then call such Rudraksha as 'One Mukhi Round' > or 'Multimukhi Round' > ?> > Finally, to sum up Rudraksha biology is very interesting showing > variety of> morphological abnormal characters. It also shows large abnormalities > in> developmental biology of the varity of beads. As mentioned earlier, > there are> approximately 350 species world wide. We know very few of them.> > Rudraksha field is like the famous story of 'Five Blind Men and > Elephant'.> > Thanking you and with best wishes, > > Chandrashekhar Phadke> Poona, India.>------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click./lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/XUWolB/TM--~-> Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:sacred-objects/<*> To from this group, send an email to: sacred-objects <*> Your Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. 9;s eye Bona fide Yellow sapphire Conch shell Blue sapphires Visit your group "sacred-objects" on the web. sacred-objects Terms of Service .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Sri Phadke's reply and he is clearly talking of natural rudraksha and not cut out rudraksha by people. Yes, I know we are talking about natural Rudraksha only and he has understood my CONTENTION. But Sir you are not understanding, To bring such an argument in such a fine discussion by Sri Phadke is totally uncalled for. I have mentioned earlier that first we have to come to the same level of understanding then only we can understand the discussion.Do you have an energy meter to find out the energy source of Rudraksha? Can you show me scientifically it is so? You know what is 4 th stage of meditation. HAVE YOU ever FELT THAT YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR BODY and looking it from outside ANY TIME WHILE DOING MEDITATION. iF YES THAN I CAN TELL YOU SOMETHING about energy levels of Rudraksha OTHERWISE it will be not worthwhile discussing with you Sir and I will be just wasting your and my time. Can you show me Lord Shiva scientifically ??? This is what Sri Phadke is saying - It is the example of Five Blind Men and the Elephant. There is another poem that has six blind men and here it is: Now the example of 7 blind men has been set. It was six men of Indostan To learning much inclined, Who went to see the Elephant (Though all of them were blind), That each by observation Might satisfy his mind The First approached the Elephant, And happening to fall Against his broad and sturdy side, At once began to bawl: "God bless me! but the Elephant Is very like a wall!" The Second, feeling of the tusk, Cried, "Ho! what have we here So very round and smooth and sharp? To me 'tis mighty clear This wonder of an Elephant Is very like a spear!" The Third approached the animal, And happening to take The squirming trunk within his hands, Thus boldly up and spake: "I see," quoth he, "the Elephant Is very like a snake!" The Fourth reached out an eager hand, And felt about the knee. "What most this wondrous beast is like Is mighty plain," quoth he; " 'Tis clear enough the Elephant Is very like a tree!" The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear, Said: "E'en the blindest man Can tell what this resembles most; Deny the fact who can This marvel of an Elephant Is very like a fan!" The Sixth no sooner had begun About the beast to grope, Than, seizing on the swinging tail That fell within his scope, "I see," quoth he, "the Elephant Is very like a rope!" And so these men of Indostan Disputed loud and long, Each in his own opinion Exceeding stiff and strong, Though each was partly in the right, And all were in the wrong! So oft in theologic wars, The disputants, I ween, Rail on in utter ignorance Of what each other mean, And prate about an Elephant Not one of them has seen! Thanks and RegardsBharat Best Wishes and my humble regards, SiddharthBharat Hindu Astrology <hinduastrology > wrote: Namaskaar Sri MishraAre you saying the fruit will cease to be a fruit, if its seed is not there? So a perfect mango, with a warped seed will be a deformed mango? Your first argument is even worse. I read Sri Phadke's reply and he is clearly talking of natural rudraksha and not cut out rudraksha by people. To bring such an argument in such a fine discussion by Sri Phadke is totally uncalled for. Do you have an energy meter to find out the energy source of Rudraksha? Can you show me scientifically it is so? This is what Sri Phadke is saying - It is the example of Five Blind Men and the Elephant. There is another poem that has six blind men and here it is: It was six men of Indostan To learning much inclined, Who went to see the Elephant (Though all of them were blind), That each by observation Might satisfy his mind The First approached the Elephant, And happening to fall Against his broad and sturdy side, At once began to bawl: "God bless me! but the Elephant Is very like a wall!" The Second, feeling of the tusk, Cried, "Ho! what have we here So very round and smooth and sharp? To me 'tis mighty clear This wonder of an Elephant Is very like a spear!" The Third approached the animal, And happening to take The squirming trunk within his hands, Thus boldly up and spake: "I see," quoth he, "the Elephant Is very like a snake!" The Fourth reached out an eager hand, And felt about the knee. "What most this wondrous beast is like Is mighty plain," quoth he; " 'Tis clear enough the Elephant Is very like a tree!" The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear, Said: "E'en the blindest man Can tell what this resembles most; Deny the fact who can This marvel of an Elephant Is very like a fan!" The Sixth no sooner had begun About the beast to grope, Than, seizing on the swinging tail That fell within his scope, "I see," quoth he, "the Elephant Is very like a rope!" And so these men of Indostan Disputed loud and long, Each in his own opinion Exceeding stiff and strong, Though each was partly in the right, And all were in the wrong! So oft in theologic wars, The disputants, I ween, Rail on in utter ignorance Of what each other mean, And prate about an Elephant Not one of them has seen!Thanks and RegardsBharat On 2/23/06, Siddharth Mishra < sidhmis > wrote: Dear Mr. Phadke, If we have to go by the external features only then why at all we worried when the rudraksha is artificially carved with more lines. In my opinion a good Rudraksha is that which has seeds equal to its mukhs. Dont you feel that it is a defect in the Rudraksha if the the no. of locule's are not equal to the mukhs ? I personally feel that in living organisms for example in the human beings there are children born with not fully devloped organs, like few children are born menatally retarded, few are born with 6 fingers on their hands, so we cannot consider that child like a normal child. Similarly if a Rudraksh is devloped not completely then it should not be considered as normal one. Secondly what is your opinion about the exact energy source of a Rudraksha. Is it seeds inside or it is its external features. Have you noticed ever a 2 ot 3 years old well formed bead ( not ever worn) if cut laterally have its seeds still wet.. Pl reply. Siddharth > This is in connection with the 'Nirakar' and 'Round Ek Mukhi' > shown on the> website of Neparudraksha by Shri. Mukunda Khatiwada. I have checked > the> pictures thoroughly and have the following personal opinion. > > According to me both the beads are genuine. I think, we have to > consider here> only external characters since the theoratical rule: 'Total no. of > clefts show> equal no. of locules' is not a universal rule in the genus > Elaeocarpus. In> practice, there are exceptions to this rule. I still remember here> discussions on RBSC forum in the year 2002 by me, Mr. Suraj Raghavan, > and others> on this important aspect.> > The genus Elaeocarpus lists at least 350 species world wide. In > India we getaadi291 < aadi291 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Hi, please note a correction: It's > like My God Vs Your God...I do NOT know if any website is selling fake round one mukhi...tks aadi --- In sacred-objects, "aadi291" wrote:>> Dear rudra lovers, i take the liberty to reproduce shree > chandrashekhar's phadkeji's views on ek mukhi round...i find his last > comment beautiful, true, and appealing....>>>Rudraksha field is like > the famous story of 'Five Blind Men and Elephant.' How true! It's > like My God Vs Your God...I do know if any website is selling fake or > genuine ek mukhi...but these are prone to > deception...nobody knows whether a particular member by that name > exists or not...whether he or she is from some trade website..whether > some expert is actually an expert or a hidden agent...when > groups are themselves hijacked by tradewebsites or their agents what > can we say? i only wish a gem of a person like shree richard shaw > brown who took sanyas to realise his spirituality, does not fall prey > any tradesites or agents...on groups, we cannot guarantee that all > are genuine seekers of spirituality...we cannot deny any wolf in > sheep's clothing...money, desire, ego can spoil the best of people.. > as phadkeji says, there are 350 rudra species and it is like an > elephant to blind men...what is real what is fake......i only know > that everybody gets what he or she deserves...it is the rule of karma > at work nothing else...> Holy texts, puranas and Shre Gurucharitra of Bhagwan Narsinhsarasvati > are full of the tragic tale of learned brahmins who had to suffer> > > Dear Surya, Ole and Zarembadavid,> > This is in connection with the 'Nirakar' and 'Round Ek Mukhi' > shown on the> website of Neparudraksha by Shri. Mukunda Khatiwada. I have checked > the> pictures thoroughly and have the following personal opinion.> > According to me both the beads are genuine. I think, we have to > consider here> only external characters since the theoratical rule: 'Total no. of > clefts show> equal no. of locules' is not a universal rule in the genus > Elaeocarpus. In> practice, there are exceptions to this rule. I still remember here> discussions on RBSC forum in the year 2002 by me, Mr. Suraj Raghavan, > and others> on this important aspect.> > The genus Elaeocarpus lists at least 350 species world wide. In > India we get> only 29. In India we can get beads from very few species (not more > than 4 to 5> species). With my studies on limited no. of species, I am giving few > examples> to support my findings as under.> > OVAL THREE MUKHI : ( Indian Rudraksha )> > Under this species we get three and four mukhi oval beads. This > species is > more common in Haridwar and Deharadun. We also get this species in > Andaman and> Nicobar islands. I have collections from Haridwar and Andaman.> > Three mukhi oval rudraksha shows only one well developed locule > and a single> seed inside it. In addition to this locule the bead shows only two > additional > minute scars. This type of beads do not show any rudimentary locules > in slit> form. Since I am a botanist, I could locate these scars. A person > who is not> from the field of botany would not be able to notice such scars in > this species.> In X-Ray pictures such scars go unnoticed.> > Four mukhi beads under this species are very rare and have similar > internal> characters as above.> > THE PERFECTLY ROUND NEPAL TWO MUKHI : (Nepal Rudraksha)> > The Perfectly Round Nepal two mukhi round bead does not show two > locules and> two seeds in it. In this connection I agree with Mr. Siddhartha who > has sent> his posting on Mr. Richard's forum. This type of bead is a > developmetal> abnormality of the normal four mukhi Nepal bead. If cut > transeversely, it> shows four locules and four seeds inside it. In X-Ray one can study > this> character in more detail.> > Two mukhi Nepal beads come in two shapes. The commonly available > is perfectly> round two mukhi, and the other is 'Pear fruit shaped', similar to > collector type> Nepal 3 Mukhi. I have not either cut or X-rayed Pear fruit type two > mukhi.> > It is interestng to note that on few reputed websites on > Rudraksha, a> beautiful perfectly round two mukhi bead is shown. If you observe > these> pictures carefully, this two mukhi bead shows two well developed > clefts or> mukhi and two more additional cuts which are not fully developed. > These> immature cuts are at the right angle of the well developed clefts. > The two mukhi> round bead shown there is definitely with four locules inside. I > have studied> this type of beads personally from my collection. If required, I > will send> images of the same on forum.> > I am not challenging the round two mukhi nature of the bead on > these websites> since cuts or clefts which are not fully developed are not considered > as mukhi> in conventional rudraksha practice.> > INTERNAL STRUCTURES OF MULTI MUKHI RUDRAKSHA BEADS : > > Theoratically, there is a general rule in the genus Elaeocarpus, > that the > total no. of clefts have equal no. of locules, however, practically, > there are> many abnormalities noticed as under. > > As we all know, locules develop under the cleft and not in between > the two> clefts. Theoratically, each such cleft should have a corresponding > well> developed locule and a seed inside it. However, it is a common > experience in> higher mukhi beads that few of the locules are not well developed > (poorly> developed) or totally absent. Such poorly developed locules are seen > as sterile> slit like structures and naturally without any seeds. Sometimes we > can notice> only poorly developed scar instead of locules under the corresponding > cleft. A> person who is not from the field of botany will not be able to > notice these> scars.> > The higher mukhi beads are very commonly constricted in the > central portion.> Clefts in this region are very close to each other. Rarely, two > clefts share a > single wall. Considering seed dimensions of rudraksha, it is > imposible to> develop healthy corresponding locules for such clefts.> > It is unfortunate that people who talk much about clefts and > locules etc. have> not studied it personally by cutting higher mukhi beads. Most of > their> observations are based on superficial studies on internal structures > of 4 to 8> mukhi beads. The more the number of clefts the more is the > percentage of poorly> developed locules, or scars or total absence of locules/ scars as > described> above.> > I have also noticed that many of the higher mukhi beads are 'Gauri > Shankar' or > 'Trijuti' inside. One can easily see a small vertical partition/s > from the hole> on the top. If such beads are observed from bottom side or tail > region, one can> notice two or three holes of such fused beads. External wall of such > beads is> continuous giving the false impression of one complete bead. In > normal Gauri> Shankar fusion line is without any clefts. Few years back, beautiful > black and> white pictures of such higher mukhi beads showing Gauri Shankar > characters> inside were shown on RBSC forum of Rudra Centre. These beads were > from the> collection of Shri. Kamal Narayan Seetha as it was mentioned in the > mail. If> somebody wants to give stress on the internal characters of > rudraksha, then> higher mukhi nature of such beads will not stand on this yardstick.> > If we stress to consider external and internal characters > together, then the> highly priced rarest 21 mukhi may turn to be a combination of two to > three> lower mukhi beads inside.> > I am not critising such beads and of course of the opinion that > these beads> should be considered as higher mukhi beads based on its external > characters. > Botanically, this phenomenon is called as 'Carpellary fusion'.> > I would request the concerned students of rudraksha and website > owners to> spare some higher mukhi beads ( 9 mukhi onwards) and study these > characters> critically from their own collection and not to restrict their > opinion on> internal structures of beads from 4 to 8 mukhi.> > X-Ray test may not be a full proof solution since poorly > developed locules> and scars may go unnoticed in X-Rays. X-Ray test in rudraksha > (higher mukhi)> appears very easy, however, it is difficult to practice and to > interprete the> X-Ray images, especially of higher mukhi beads. Personally, I > practice it> regularly for Valampuri Conch.> > The inference is : Relation of clefts and locules is not a > reliable test. > There are many developmental abnormalities like in three and two > mukhi Nepal> bead. These findings are based on very few Elaeocarpus species > studied out of> 350 species worldwide. > > ROUND NEPAL EK MUKHI, DOES IT EXISTS ?> > I am of the opinion that Yes, Round Ek Mukhi does exist. The best > way to> judge round Ek Mukhi rudraksha (and also higher mukhi rudraksha) is > to observe> it critically from its head and the tail region. It is not possible > to make> any artificial changes in rudraksha stone character at these two > ends. As we> all know, in fake Ek Mukhi rudraksha beads, clefts are sealed either > with> resins or by pasteing small pieces of other rudraksha in the cleft > region.> Clefts are also sometimes skillfully removed. One can not tamper the > rudraksha> in the head or tail region. Tampered beads can easily be noticed at > these two> ends.> > To check characters of Round Ek Mukhi, critically, there is a > very simple> test to follow. One can imaginarily devide the bead in five or six > equal > sectors. Now go on checking continuity of tubercled ornamentation or > continuous> rough surface from one such imaginary sector to the other. Now, > change the set> of imaginary sectors and repeat the procedure. In a authentic bead > there is> overlapping of such continuous tubercled structures in different > sectors.> > The pictures of head and tail region of 'Nirakar Rudraksha' are > excellent and> does not show any proof that the bead is tampered. The tubercled > ornamentation > or in simple words rough surface of the bead is natural and is > continuous. This> bead is likely to show five locules inside. If you observe extreme > right hand> side image ( tail region of the bead) critically, it shows an > elevated five> armed star like structure. Head image of this bead shows few poorly > developed> cuts which are not complete. Conventionally, such imperfect cuts are > not> counted as clefts, so we need not consider such imcomplete cuts as > mukhi.> > The Rudraksha is no doubt the rarest, 'Zero Mukhi Bead'.> > In case of one mukhi bead it is necessary to give images from head > and the> tail region to support the claim of one mukhi. However, the side > image gives > the clear idea about its Ek Mukhi nature. This bead is likely to > show three to> four locules inside. With my experience, two mukhi perfectly round > Nepal bead> shows four locules inside. Such beads are generally smaller in size. > With my> experience, large authentic (with above tests) Ek mukhi Nepal bead > shows four> to five locules inside if X-Ray is taken.> > It is important to note that Mr. Mukunda Khatiwada has not claimed > that his> bead shows only one locule inside. Does not matter, the bead is no > doubt Ek> Mukhi externally. A customer has to decide whether he should give > stress on> external characters or both external and internal characters together.> > People talking so much about clefts and locules etc. should also > frankly> accept the fact that the PERFECTLY ROUND NEPAL TWO MUKHI does not > exist and is a> developmental abnormality of a NORMAL FOUR MUKHI RUDRAKSHA.> > There can not be double standards, for beads under description by > Mr. Mukunda> Khatiwada and for the perfectly round two mukhi Nepal beads shown on > few> websites. I personally accept both the beads i.e. round Ek Mukhi > and the Round> Two Mukhi judging external characters critically.> > Sometimes I imagine, if I get, a round Ek mukhi (internally) with > only one> locule and seed inside, but with many clefts outside, what will be > the reaction> ? Shall I then call such Rudraksha as 'One Mukhi Round' > or 'Multimukhi Round'> ?> > Finally, to sum up Rudraksha biology is very interesting showing > variety of> morphological abnormal characters. It also shows large abnormalities > in> developmental biology of the varity of beads. As mentioned earlier, > there are> approximately 350 species world wide. We know very few of them.> > Rudraksha field is like the famous story of 'Five Blind Men and > Elephant'.> > Thanking you and with best wishes, > > Chandrashekhar Phadke> Poona, India.>------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click./lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/XUWolB/TM--~-> Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:sacred-objects/<*> To from this group, send an email to: sacred-objects<*> Your use of is subject to: Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. 9;s eye Bona fide Yellow sapphire Conch shell Blue sapphires Visit your group "sacred-objects" on the web. To from this group, send an email to: sacred-objects Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service .. Relax. Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.