Guest guest Posted April 30, 2003 Report Share Posted April 30, 2003 Dear Elizabethji Thank you for your questions Kirkji is totally correct regarding the 4 original Vedas and the strong possibility that some information was probably added to the other Holy Books according to the needs of Society when they were reinterpreted from time to time in different ages to answer part of your question regarding .......Holy Books authored by Enlightened Rishis with "perfect infomation"............ is a little more complicated. Will have to give a little background information first This is only my personal experience however from what I have learned and experienced........ Enlightment has many levels. To finally arrive at a place where you are Enlightened or Realized is only the first step or first level. Although this first level of Enlightenment can introduce a person to Higher States of Consciousness, Boundlessness, Recognition of Unlimited Potential that is specific to Maharishi Patanjalis Siddhis and a Freedom seldom experienced before......................... it also shows us how little we have been able to know, experience and understand up to that point. The first stage of Enlightenment is truly a humbling experience The many layers seen in the physical structure of an onion can be seen as one basic example of how the levels of Enlightenment might be structured. First stage of Enlightment a person enters the outer layers and if they continue on their Spiritual Path they would gradualy go to the next layer and then the next in their attempt to reach the center that might be called Brahman Consciousness To be certain the authors were all Enlightened Rishis with access to perfect knowledge for the original texts they wrote. It is also a reasonable possibility that some of the contradictions seen in different Holy Books regarding rules and precautions for the Holy Rudraksa were added dureing a reinterpretation or rewrite according to the needs of Society at the different times the Books were rewritten. To make things more complicated we really have no idea regarding what specific level of Enlightenment was being experienced by those who might have added to the original texts from age to age One of the main reasons we study the different texts and references today is to investigate and find the same common denominator of Knowledge that runs through all the different Books and then also to identify the information that may have been added to the original text at a later time This is an Immense issue and quite controversial with many many authors to this day reinterpreting the texts however I hope this helps a little to clarify Thanks and Take Care My Friend DharmaDev shehoss <shehoss99 <> Wednesday, April 30, 2003 2:08 PM Vedic texts and shree yantra debate >Hello, Regarding the recent shree yantra debate, please forgive my ignorance, but can someone tell me if both the "Rudraksha >Jabalopanishat" and the “Devatarchana Vidhi’s” mentioned are part of the Vedas, Upanishads, or Puranas? I have barely scratched the surface of any Vedic texts, but I am wondering about contradictions contained therein. Are there not slight contradictions in the dictates for wear and care of the rudrakshas contained in the texts dealing with rudrakshas (as in mantras must or may not be used)? How are we to "take" this sort of information, as the Vedas are to have been authored by enlightened Rishis with "perfect" information? Does anyone have a perspective on this they could share? Also, how tampered with are the Vedic sacred writings? (tampered with, as in the way the Bible has been "edited" over the years) Thanks for your help,elizabeth > >To send an email to: > > >------ > >There are 11 messages in this issue. > >Topics in this digest: > >1. Re: Shree Yantra >"ShiningLotus" >2. Re: Shree Yantra >"Alan Scherr" >3. Re: Shree Yantra >"Kirk" >4. tulasi >balakrishnan k >5. Re: tulasi >"Barbara J. Spencer" >6. Re: tulasi >"Kirk" >7. Re: tulasi >"surajraghavan2002" >8. Re: tulasi >"Barbara J. Spencer" >9. Re: tulasi >"surajraghavan2002" >10. shree Yantra >sk purushotham nil >11. Re: shree Yantra >"Barbara J. Spencer" > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 1 >Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:16:25 -0700 >"ShiningLotus" >Re: Shree Yantra > >Dear Rajeswaraji > >Namaskar and thank you for your reply > >Agree with all you have said My Friend > >Wishing you and Family the Best of Health Happiness Prosperity Good Fortune Success and Freedom > >Aum NamaSivaya Sivaya Nama Aum > >Dhanyavaad Cha Pranams Mitra > >DharmaDev > >rajeswara rao > >Tuesday, April 29, 2003 12:59 AM >Re: Shree Yantra > > >dear DHARMA DEVA ji hearty pranams and Om Namah Shivaya, sincere thanks for the eloborate explanation given about the Shree yantra. As you said biological changes in mankind are natural. i feel that as far possible one should try to maintain the sanctity of these holy items. not all but some points mentioned by you were discussed in our house. but now i stand completely free about the Shree Yantra. i once again thank you for the information provided. > > > >The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > > > > Sponsor > > > >To send an email to: > > > > > > > > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 2 >Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:53:12 -0400 >"Alan Scherr" >Re: Shree Yantra > >This discussion on Sri Yantra leads to another question on Sri Shaligram >Sila, which is available through RUDRA Centre. There are so many references >that state that one must perform specific rites each and every day and also >that Shaligram must be kept with Tulsi. Again, not knowing the tradition - >does the same principle apply that holy items cannot do harm but only bring >harmony, etc?? > >Namaste, >Alan > > > >>"ShiningLotus" >> >>To: >>Re: Shree Yantra >>Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:16:25 -0700 >> >>Dear Rajeswaraji >> >>Namaskar and thank you for your reply >> >>Agree with all you have said My Friend >> >>Wishing you and Family the Best of Health Happiness Prosperity Good Fortune >>Success and Freedom >> >>Aum NamaSivaya Sivaya Nama Aum >> >>Dhanyavaad Cha Pranams Mitra >> >>DharmaDev >> >>rajeswara rao >> >> >>Tuesday, April 29, 2003 12:59 AM >>Re: Shree Yantra >> >> >>dear DHARMA DEVA ji hearty pranams and Om Namah Shivaya, sincere thanks for >>the eloborate explanation given about the Shree yantra. As you said >>biological changes in mankind are natural. i feel that as far possible one >>should try to maintain the sanctity of these holy items. not all but some >>points mentioned by you were discussed in our house. but now i stand >>completely free about the Shree Yantra. i once again thank you for the >>information provided. >> >> >> >>The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. >> >> >> >> >> Sponsor >> >> >> >>To send an email to: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >_______________ >The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 3 >Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:59:58 -0500 >"Kirk" >Re: Shree Yantra > >Certain Shilas are said to be inharmonious...unless you are a devotee of Vishnu. So also, all devotional objects supposedly strike fear into the hearts of the undevout, and yet bring joy to the faithful. >- >Alan Scherr > >Tuesday, April 29, 2003 12:53 PM >Re: Shree Yantra > > >This discussion on Sri Yantra leads to another question on Sri Shaligram >Sila, which is available through RUDRA Centre. There are so many references >that state that one must perform specific rites each and every day and also >that Shaligram must be kept with Tulsi. Again, not knowing the tradition - >does the same principle apply that holy items cannot do harm but only bring >harmony, etc?? > >Namaste, >Alan > > > >>"ShiningLotus" >> >>To: >>Re: Shree Yantra >>Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:16:25 -0700 >> >>Dear Rajeswaraji >> >>Namaskar and thank you for your reply >> >>Agree with all you have said My Friend >> >>Wishing you and Family the Best of Health Happiness Prosperity Good Fortune >>Success and Freedom >> >>Aum NamaSivaya Sivaya Nama Aum >> >>Dhanyavaad Cha Pranams Mitra >> >>DharmaDev >> >>rajeswara rao >> >> >>Tuesday, April 29, 2003 12:59 AM >>Re: Shree Yantra >> >> >>dear DHARMA DEVA ji hearty pranams and Om Namah Shivaya, sincere thanks for >>the eloborate explanation given about the Shree yantra. As you said >>biological changes in mankind are natural. i feel that as far possible one >>should try to maintain the sanctity of these holy items. not all but some >>points mentioned by you were discussed in our house. but now i stand >>completely free about the Shree Yantra. i once again thank you for the >>information provided. >> >> >> >>The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. >> >> >> >> >> Sponsor >> >> >> >>To send an email to: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >_______________ >The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > Sponsor > > > >To send an email to: > > > > > > > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 4 >Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:20:56 -0700 (PDT) >balakrishnan k >tulasi > >Namaste, Have anybody grown tulasi plant in US, I tried with seeds bought from richters but they only sprout and stay in same condition even after 30 days. Is there place where we can get a seed or plant (holy basil / tulasi) in US. Aum NamaShivaya ShivayaNama AUM Bala. Thanks,Bala >Kirk wrote:Certain Shilas are said to be inharmonious...unless you are a devotee of Vishnu. So also, all devotional objects supposedly strike fear into the hearts of the undevout, and yet bring joy to the faithful. >- >Alan Scherr > >Tuesday, April 29, 2003 12:53 PM >Re: Shree Yantra > > >This discussion on Sri Yantra leads to another question on Sri Shaligram >Sila, which is available through RUDRA Centre. There are so many references >that state that one must perform specific rites each and every day and also >that Shaligram must be kept with Tulsi. Again, not knowing the tradition - >does the same principle apply that holy items cannot do harm but only bring >harmony, etc?? > >Namaste, >Alan > > > >>"ShiningLotus" >> >>To: >>Re: Shree Yantra >>Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:16:25 -0700 >> >>Dear Rajeswaraji >> >>Namaskar and thank you for your reply >> >>Agree with all you have said My Friend >> >>Wishing you and Family the Best of Health Happiness Prosperity Good Fortune >>Success and Freedom >> >>Aum NamaSivaya Sivaya Nama Aum >> >>Dhanyavaad Cha Pranams Mitra >> >>DharmaDev >> >>rajeswara rao >> >> >>Tuesday, April 29, 2003 12:59 AM >>Re: Shree Yantra >> >> >>dear DHARMA DEVA ji hearty pranams and Om Namah Shivaya, sincere thanks for >>the eloborate explanation given about the Shree yantra. As you said >>biological changes in mankind are natural. i feel that as far possible one >>should try to maintain the sanctity of these holy items. not all but some >>points mentioned by you were discussed in our house. but now i stand >>completely free about the Shree Yantra. i once again thank you for the >>information provided. >> >> >> >>The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. >> >> >> >> >> Sponsor >> >> >> >>To send an email to: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >_______________ >The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > Sponsor > > > >To send an email to: > > > Sponsor >To send an email to: > > > > > > > > >The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 5 >Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:04:43 -0700 >"Barbara J. Spencer" >Re: tulasi > >Dear Balakrishnan, > >I also bought Tulsi seeds form Richters, and I could not get them to grow properly until I put them in a terrarium with a plastic cover and in a sunny window. I think that they do not like draughts of any kind. I have read that they like to be watered every day in a trench dug around the roots, but I do not water them that much as it is not that hot here. I ordered mine from the Herb Catalogue in 1999, page 14, under Sacred Basil (O. sanctum=tulsi). The order No. was S1285 and they come in green or purple. Sometimes I wonder if this is really tulsi, as the leaves are very bitter. I have read that you should keep them where you do your worship or even sit below the plant when you are doing your devotions. Richters Web page is www.richters.com and their email is orderdesk. The mailing address is Richters, Goodwood, Ontario L0C 1A0, CANADA, and they were $2.50 a package. If anyone knows whether these be real tulsi, I should like to know. > >Barbara >- >balakrishnan k > >Tuesday, April 29, 2003 2:20 PM >tulasi > > >Namaste, Have anybody grown tulasi plant in US, I tried with seeds bought from richters but they only sprout and stay in same condition even after 30 days. Is there place where we can get a seed or plant (holy basil / tulasi) in US. Aum NamaShivaya ShivayaNama AUM Bala. Thanks,Bala >Kirk wrote:Certain Shilas are said to be inharmonious...unless you are a devotee of Vishnu. So also, all devotional objects supposedly strike fear into the hearts of the undevout, and yet bring joy to the faithful. >- >Alan Scherr > >Tuesday, April 29, 2003 12:53 PM >Re: Shree Yantra > > >This discussion on Sri Yantra leads to another question on Sri Shaligram >Sila, which is available through RUDRA Centre. There are so many references >that state that one must perform specific rites each and every day and also >that Shaligram must be kept with Tulsi. Again, not knowing the tradition - >does the same principle apply that holy items cannot do harm but only bring >harmony, etc?? > >Namaste, >Alan > > > >>"ShiningLotus" >> >>To: >>Re: Shree Yantra >>Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:16:25 -0700 >> >>Dear Rajeswaraji >> >>Namaskar and thank you for your reply >> >>Agree with all you have said My Friend >> >>Wishing you and Family the Best of Health Happiness Prosperity Good Fortune >>Success and Freedom >> >>Aum NamaSivaya Sivaya Nama Aum >> >>Dhanyavaad Cha Pranams Mitra >> >>DharmaDev >> >>rajeswara rao >> >> >>Tuesday, April 29, 2003 12:59 AM >>Re: Shree Yantra >> >> >>dear DHARMA DEVA ji hearty pranams and Om Namah Shivaya, sincere thanks for >>the eloborate explanation given about the Shree yantra. As you said >>biological changes in mankind are natural. i feel that as far possible one >>should try to maintain the sanctity of these holy items. not all but some >>points mentioned by you were discussed in our house. but now i stand >>completely free about the Shree Yantra. i once again thank you for the >>information provided. >> >> >> >>The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. >> >> >> >> >> Sponsor >> >> >> >>To send an email to: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >_______________ >The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > Sponsor > > > >To send an email to: > > > Sponsor >To send an email to: > > > > > > > > >The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > > > > Sponsor > > > >To send an email to: > > > > > > > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 6 >Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:36:41 -0500 >"Kirk" >Re: tulasi > >Tulsi grow just great here. You can get live plants from https://home.frognet.net/~complants/secure/cart/chart.htm Companion Plants. >- >balakrishnan k > >Tuesday, April 29, 2003 4:20 PM >tulasi > > >Namaste, Have anybody grown tulasi plant in US, I tried with seeds bought from richters but they only sprout and stay in same condition even after 30 days. Is there place where we can get a seed or plant (holy basil / tulasi) in US. Aum NamaShivaya ShivayaNama AUM Bala. Thanks,Bala >Kirk wrote:Certain Shilas are said to be inharmonious...unless you are a devotee of Vishnu. So also, all devotional objects supposedly strike fear into the hearts of the undevout, and yet bring joy to the faithful. >- >Alan Scherr > >Tuesday, April 29, 2003 12:53 PM >Re: Shree Yantra > > >This discussion on Sri Yantra leads to another question on Sri Shaligram >Sila, which is available through RUDRA Centre. There are so many references >that state that one must perform specific rites each and every day and also >that Shaligram must be kept with Tulsi. Again, not knowing the tradition - >does the same principle apply that holy items cannot do harm but only bring >harmony, etc?? > >Namaste, >Alan > > > >>"ShiningLotus" >> >>To: >>Re: Shree Yantra >>Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:16:25 -0700 >> >>Dear Rajeswaraji >> >>Namaskar and thank you for your reply >> >>Agree with all you have said My Friend >> >>Wishing you and Family the Best of Health Happiness Prosperity Good Fortune > >=== message truncated === > > > >The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > > > > >To send an email to: > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2003 Report Share Posted April 30, 2003 Dear Respected Surajji Many Thanks for your Remarkable Discourse My Friend We are truly Blessed by haveing you as one of our esteemed members on this Group Site Thank you for takeing the time to Enlighten us as we would have had to literally search for years to find all this information in one place Am totally amazed and thankful for the important Traditional History you have shared with us this day Aum NamaSivaya Sivaya Nama Aum Dhanyavaad Cha Pranams Mitra DharmaDev Arya surajraghavan2002 <suraj_raghavan <> Wednesday, April 30, 2003 8:30 PM Re: Vedic texts and shree yantra debate Dear Elizabeth: I'm not a vedic scholar but i know some basics based on the writings of other more knowledgable scholars. Since this debate seems to be on injunctions prescribed in various texts, i thought a little background might help. Apologies for the lengthy post. The four vedas Rg, Yajus, Sama and Atharva each are thought to have four portions samhitas, brahmanas, aranyakas and upanishads although the divisions are not always concrete, i.e., many upanishads are parts of aranyakas and so forth. The samhitas, which are a collection of mantras (verses of poetry set to many different meters with each mantra composed of several padas (lines) of varying syllables. For example the Gayatri Mantra which is composed in the Gayatri Chandas (Meter) has 3 padas of 8 syllables each) brahmanas which give the details on the rituals to be performed, aranyakas (literally forest treatises) and upanishads (which are the esoteric teachings said to contain the essence of the vedas and are the basis for the six darshanas or the Indian systems of philosophy which formed the basis of Hinduism as we know it today--darshan is sight or perception in this context darshana is a means of perceiving the ultimate reality as espoused in the vedas). As small groups of Vedic peoples (shakas) spread to different parts of India each shaka (clan is a loose translation) followed a specific set of samhitas, brahmanas, aranyakas and upanishads within a particular veda. This gave rise to many recensions (regional variations) out of which a few survive today. For example my family are Krishna Yajurvedins which is the southern recension of the Yajurveda that is extant and we follow the Taittriya Samhita, Taittriya Brahmana, Taittriya Aranyaka and Taittriya Upanishad. A Shukla Yajurvedin on the other hand may for example follow the Shatapatha Brahmana and the BrihadAranyaka Upanishad. All four portions are considered a part of the veda although the samhita portions are said to be the oldest. The vedas are considered Apaurushaya (authorless) and sruti (that which is revealed). Thus they were transmitted orally for a very long time before they were written down. They are not considered to be a creation of man but universal truths revealed to sages. Each mantra in fact is attributed to a sage to whom it was said to be revealed. There are NO contradictions amongst the vedas and the scriptures have been transmitted unchanged over several millenia thanks to a remarkable system of coding of the mantras with very strict recitation rules. I remember reading somewhere that there is only one word in dispute (a few syllables) in the entire vedic corpus. The Rg samhita alone has 10552 mantras!!! so this is a remarkable feat by any standard. The only difference is the variation in the style of recitation in the different regions. Of the Upansishads ten are considered to be prinicpal (isha, kena, katha, prashna, mundaka, mandukya, taittiriiya, aitereya, chaandogya, brhadaranyaka) and there are 98 minor ones like for example the Rudraksha Jabalopanishad. (finally i seem to be getting to my point!) Some folks consider the Mahanarayana Upanishad, Svetasvatara and a few others quite important in addition to the principal 10 but the Rudraksha Jabalopanishad is NOT by any means considered a principal upanishad. That is not to say that it may not have important teachings (i have not read it myself) however i'm just trying to put things in perspective. In addition (phew!) there are six supplementary texts to the vedas called Vedangas (anga means limb) of which the Kalpa Sutra vedanga is one. (Sutra is an aphorism and the Kalpa Sutras are a set of rules on rituals and ceremonies)These are broadly divided into Grhya Sutras (household rituals) and Srauta Sutras (public ceremonies). Thus the Apastamba Grhya Sutras that Mr. Purushotam mentioned in his email is a set of rules on conducting household rituals and apparently has rules on Sri Vidya worship( It took me a long time but i'm finally getting to my point) which he informed us all has to be strictly followed otherwise there will be trouble etc. My point is that instead of scaring people away perhaps Mr. Purushotam would kindly inform HOW to do the ritual (since i believe the original email on this thread was a sincere request for information). This would have caused a lot less tension and anger. As far as the Devatarchana Vidhi (Vidhi means a rule, thus the Devatarchana Vidhis are rules for worshipping the various Devatas) are concerned, i don't know what books they're in so perhaps Mr. Purushotam can enlighten us. I personally don't follow rituals but i have great respect for people who do especially the ones who do it with sincerity and feeling. I've been influenced much more by the teachings of Ramanuja and the rural folk of India and feel a good heart is far more important than any ritual. Suraj To send an email to: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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