Guest guest Posted September 26, 2003 Report Share Posted September 26, 2003 Dear Members, Given Ole's friend Sparky's comments on the Rudraksha site's Subas RAi article, I wanted to get my own electrical guru's opinion on it. He is an electrical engineer with deep inclination to the spiritual but no exposure to Hinduism, etc. So, his bias is not against energetic modalities and spiritual media per se. Below are his comments (verbatim, and bald, please do not be offended) on the article--I gave him the following link: http://www.rudraksha-ratna.com/htm/biomedical.htm. "Scientifically, this website appears to be a load of rubbish. I don't want to question the real healing properties of the seeds. It's just that the person who wrote the article has little understanding of electricity and uses that ineffectively to explain the effects of the seeds. Mostly he seems to spout a lot of nothing. If you tell me that capacitance is measured in Farads and that the seeds have capacitive qualities, shouldn't I expect to know the capacitance of the seeds, scientifically measured in Farads? Not from that article. The first dubious point, which you should have caught, was that "any doctor" would tell you that 95% of all health problems are stress related and therefore psychosomatic. That statement is ludicrous. The seeds sound interesting. Unfortunately, sites like the one you linked me to will only increase any perception of them as quacky." Though I personally am much more willing to take leaps of faith, as you have seen from my wish that people will start gathering "hard" data on the bead's usage, I really hope that serious studies can be done on the beads to make their usage and real benefits more palatableu to those who may be put off by the lack of critical thinking around them. So, regarding this article, does anyone who has a copy of the article in whatever language it was originally published in know if there is data missing in the excerpt, or if anything has been misrepresented in translation? If so, let's help Neeta repair the excerpt, and if not, I think it'd be great if our dear Rudra Centre members can work on replacing the article with something more solid. And, if there's simply no solid scientific work on the beads, then let's dispense of speaking of them in scientific terms until there is. OTherwise, it just looks like more energetic jive talk such as you see all over the place in half-baked New Age products and literature, and my sense is, that these beads deserve better than that. Regarding the spiritual "evidence" around them, there's still plenty to say regarding their usage by saints and their inclusion in the scriptures. With love and dedication to helping rudrakshas put their best face forward, eliz The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2003 Report Share Posted September 26, 2003 Dear Friends, I truly appreciate the comments given regarding Subash Rai's article. I was trained as a scientist form an early age and was told by my guru that spirituality does not mean leaving common sense at the door. He was very interested in the lnks between scientific investigation and spirituality. I work with energetic healing methods along with more traditonal Western psychotherapeutic techniques on a daily basis in my professional life. I have studied and practiced yoga and meditation for almost 35 years now and also study and practice Chi Gung and Tai Chi Chuan. I have seen the effects of energetic movement in myself and in others. One of the problems I have is when we try to translate subrtle energetic forms into material energetic concepts. I for example don't think that chi or prana is the same as electrical or electro-chemical energy. I have been wearing my Siddha Mala now for 32 days now. The only exposures I had had to them previously was in malas, one of which I used for 20 years. I can definitely feel energetic effects from the Siddha Mala. Just what they are what what results they will have remains to be seen, but I am interested. Arjuna "e. mars" <e_mars1133 wrote: Dear Members, Given Ole's friend Sparky's comments on the Rudraksha site's Subas RAi article, I wanted to get my own electrical guru's opinion on it. He is an electrical engineer with deep inclination to the spiritual but no exposure to Hinduism, etc. So, his bias is not against energetic modalities and spiritual media per se. Below are his comments (verbatim, and bald, please do not be offended) on the article--I gave him the following link: http://www.rudraksha-ratna.com/htm/biomedical.htm. "Scientifically, this website appears to be a load of rubbish. I don't want to question the real healing properties of the seeds. It's just that the person who wrote the article has little understanding of electricity and uses that ineffectively to explain the effects of the seeds. Mostly he seems to spout a lot of nothing. If you tell me that capacitance is measured in Farads and that the seeds have capacitive qualities, shouldn't I expect to know the capacitance of the seeds, scientifically measured in Farads? Not from that article. The first dubious point, which you should have caught, was that "any doctor" would tell you that 95% of all health problems are stress related and therefore psychosomatic. That statement is ludicrous. The seeds sound interesting. Unfortunately, sites like the one you linked me to will only increase any perception of them as quacky." Though I personally am much more willing to take leaps of faith, as you have seen from my wish that people will start gathering "hard" data on the bead's usage, I really hope that serious studies can be done on the beads to make their usage and real benefits more palatableu to those who may be put off by the lack of critical thinking around them. So, regarding this article, does anyone who has a copy of the article in whatever language it was originally published in know if there is data missing in the excerpt, or if anything has been misrepresented in translation? If so, let's help Neeta repair the excerpt, and if not, I think it'd be great if our dear Rudra Centre members can work on replacing the article with something more solid. And, if there's simply no solid scientific work on the beads, then let's dispense of speaking of them in scientific terms until there is. OTherwise, it just looks like more energetic jive talk such as you see all over the place in half-baked New Age products and literature, and my sense is, that these beads deserve better than that. Regarding the spiritual "evidence" around them, there's still plenty to say regarding their usage by saints and their inclusion in the scriptures. With love and dedication to helping rudrakshas put their best face forward, eliz The New with improved product search To send an email to: The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2003 Report Share Posted September 26, 2003 I have to agree with Brother Arjuna. I am a medical-surgical and psychiatric case manager. My special interest was always neurology, which isn't all that different than electronics. I was trained in a hard- headed scientific mold. Personally, I haven't a CLUE as to how a bit of plant matter can carry an electro-magnetic charge. But, I know that prana and chi, and the Divine energies that manifest almost palpably and sometimes even visually when we are in direct contact with God are very real, and probably do not register on a voltmeter. I think that the energies that comprise the universe vibrate across enormous ranges, only an infinitessimal fraction of which we can measure, or even sense. I do not understand the mystery of the beads. I can tell you that I doubted, and now do not. This of my own experience with them, and of observing the experiences, sometimes miraculous, of other people. Love, Kari BTW--re: energies, subtle and gross, psychic, transcendental, and mundane material... There is a book by a neurologist and a quantum physicist called "The Holographic Universe." I found it enlightening, and very heartening. It sort of helps explain the God in Man. , Arjuna <arjunaacharya> wrote: > Dear Friends, > I truly appreciate the comments given regarding Subash Rai's article. I was trained as a scientist form an early age and was told by my guru that spirituality does not mean leaving common sense at the door. He was very interested in the lnks between scientific investigation and spirituality. I work with energetic healing methods along with more traditonal Western psychotherapeutic techniques on a daily basis in my professional life. I have studied and practiced yoga and meditation for almost 35 years now and also study and practice Chi Gung and Tai Chi Chuan. I have seen the effects of energetic movement in myself and in others. One of the problems I have is when we try to translate subrtle energetic forms into material energetic concepts. I for example don't think that chi or prana is the same as electrical or electro-chemical energy. I have been wearing my Siddha Mala now for 32 days now. The only exposures I had had to them previously was in malas, one of which I used > for 20 years. I can definitely feel energetic effects from the Siddha Mala. Just what they are what what results they will have remains to be seen, but I am interested. > Arjuna > > "e. mars" <e_mars1133> wrote: > > Dear Members, > > Given Ole's friend Sparky's comments on the Rudraksha site's Subas RAi article, I wanted to get my own electrical guru's opinion on it. He is an electrical engineer with deep inclination to the spiritual but no exposure to Hinduism, etc. So, his bias is not against energetic modalities and spiritual media per se. Below are his comments (verbatim, and bald, please do not be offended) on the article--I gave him the following link: http://www.rudraksha-ratna.com/htm/biomedical.htm. > > "Scientifically, this website appears to be a load of rubbish. I don't want to question the real healing properties of the seeds. It's just that the person who wrote the article has little understanding of electricity and uses that ineffectively to explain the effects of the seeds. Mostly he seems to spout a lot of nothing. If you tell me that capacitance is measured in Farads and that the seeds have capacitive qualities, shouldn't I expect to know the capacitance of the seeds, scientifically measured in Farads? Not from that article. > > The first dubious point, which you should have caught, was that "any doctor" would tell you that 95% of all health problems are stress related and therefore psychosomatic. That statement is ludicrous. > > The seeds sound interesting. Unfortunately, sites like the one you linked me to will only increase any perception of them as quacky." > > > Though I personally am much more willing to take leaps of faith, as you have seen from my wish that people will start gathering "hard" data on the bead's usage, I really hope that serious studies can be done on the beads to make their usage and real benefits more palatableu to those who may be put off by the lack of critical thinking around them. > > So, regarding this article, does anyone who has a copy of the article in whatever language it was originally published in know if there is data missing in the excerpt, or if anything has been misrepresented in translation? If so, let's help Neeta repair the excerpt, and if not, I think it'd be great if our dear Rudra Centre members can work on replacing the article with something more solid. > > And, if there's simply no solid scientific work on the beads, then let's dispense of speaking of them in scientific terms until there is. OTherwise, it just looks like more energetic jive talk such as you see all over the place in half-baked New Age products and literature, and my sense is, that these beads deserve better than that. Regarding the spiritual "evidence" around them, there's still plenty to say regarding their usage by saints and their inclusion in the scriptures. > > With love and dedication to helping rudrakshas put their best face forward, > eliz > > > > > > > The New with improved product search > > > > > Sponsor > > To send an email to: > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2003 Report Share Posted September 27, 2003 Dear Elizabeth, Thank youl very much for opening a subject about 'Suhas Rai's Studies'. I am a biotechnologist and not a physicist. I am very much interested in the Rudrakshas and its properties. I have purchased a book 'Rudraksha' written by Suhas Rai. I gave this book to my physicist friends working as senior scientists. I also told them about the studies regarding 'Electromagnetic properties of Rudrakshas' studied by the author an requested them to go through the book as I am not an expert in the subject Physics. My physicist friends told me that the book does not contain any results and graphs, data related to the Electromagnetic properties of the bead, except only 2-3 sentences claiming that it has electromagnetic properties. The graphs shown in the book are related to the studies regarding 'Electric charge or capacitance on the bead'. Even these studies are very superficial I was told. I was told that it is necessary to undertake studies (Electromagnetic studies) at ultra low temperature since the material is botanical. The studies are required to be undertaken at minus 180 degrees celcius. Electromagnetic charge of the botanical material is due to some magnetic elements present in the material. The conc. of such elements is very low, sometimes in nanograms. It is also important to take a note that Dr. Suhas Rai has not published his results in any of the Scientific Research Journal. I have personally checked all the 'Scientific Abstrtacts' and 'Internet Search' for this. Comparison with Tulsi and especially with a nutmeg has no meaning, I feel. It is true thayt Rudraksha has some mystical properties to keep the balance of all Yogic Chakras. However, studies undertaken are superficial and the inference is made without any scientific data. Comments from physicists are required. Thanking you and with best wishes. Chandrashekhar Phadke "e. mars" <e_mars1133 wrote: Dear Members, Given Ole's friend Sparky's comments on the Rudraksha site's Subas RAi article, I wanted to get my own electrical guru's opinion on it. He is an electrical engineer with deep inclination to the spiritual but no exposure to Hinduism, etc. So, his bias is not against energetic modalities and spiritual media per se. Below are his comments (verbatim, and bald, please do not be offended) on the article--I gave him the following link: http://www.rudraksha-ratna.com/htm/biomedical.htm. "Scientifically, this website appears to be a load of rubbish. I don't want to question the real healing properties of the seeds. It's just that the person who wrote the article has little understanding of electricity and uses that ineffectively to explain the effects of the seeds. Mostly he seems to spout a lot of nothing. If you tell me that capacitance is measured in Farads and that the seeds have capacitive qualities, shouldn't I expect to know the capacitance of the seeds, scientifically measured in Farads? Not from that article. The first dubious point, which you should have caught, was that "any doctor" would tell you that 95% of all health problems are stress related and therefore psychosomatic. That statement is ludicrous. The seeds sound interesting. Unfortunately, sites like the one you linked me to will only increase any perception of them as quacky." Though I personally am much more willing to take leaps of faith, as you have seen from my wish that people will start gathering "hard" data on the bead's usage, I really hope that serious studies can be done on the beads to make their usage and real benefits more palatableu to those who may be put off by the lack of critical thinking around them. So, regarding this article, does anyone who has a copy of the article in whatever language it was originally published in know if there is data missing in the excerpt, or if anything has been misrepresented in translation? If so, let's help Neeta repair the excerpt, and if not, I think it'd be great if our dear Rudra Centre members can work on replacing the article with something more solid. And, if there's simply no solid scientific work on the beads, then let's dispense of speaking of them in scientific terms until there is. OTherwise, it just looks like more energetic jive talk such as you see all over the place in half-baked New Age products and literature, and my sense is, that these beads deserve better than that. Regarding the spiritual "evidence" around them, there's still plenty to say regarding their usage by saints and their inclusion in the scriptures. With love and dedication to helping rudrakshas put their best face forward, eliz The New with improved product search To send an email to: India Matrimony: Find your partner online.Post your profile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2003 Report Share Posted September 27, 2003 Dear Elizabeth, Arjuna, Kari & Chandrashekhar Phadke, Thank you for sharing your insights on this important topic. I have not read the Subas Rai book yet, but I was certainly appreciative to my friend Spark for pointing out these insights and it appears he was not mistaken, judging from the other comments by people with qualifications in this field. Since DDji has commented that "anything on the website that refers to Subas Rais work is a direct quote from from his book", at this point I think it unfortunately can be concluded that the Subas Rai research is superficial new age science at its best/worst, if it is not a scam... I would recommend that Rudra Centre contact Subas Rai and ask him for some clarifications on the points discussed. At this point, I feel the article in question should be immediately removed from the website, if Rudra Centre is to maintain any integrity. Thanks, Ole , chandrashekhar phadke <chphadke> wrote: > Dear Elizabeth, > > Thank youl very much for opening a subject about 'Suhas Rai's Studies'. I am a biotechnologist and not a physicist. I am very much interested in the Rudrakshas and its properties. I have purchased a book 'Rudraksha' written by Suhas Rai. I gave this book to my physicist friends working as senior scientists. I also told them about the studies regarding 'Electromagnetic properties of Rudrakshas' studied by the author an requested them to go through the book as I am not an expert in the subject Physics. My physicist friends told me that the book does not contain any results and graphs, data related to the Electromagnetic properties of the bead, except only 2-3 sentences claiming that it has electromagnetic properties. The graphs shown in the book are related to the studies regarding 'Electric charge or capacitance on the bead'. Even these studies are very superficial I was told. I was told that it is necessary to undertake studies (Electromagnetic studies) at ultra low > temperature since the material is botanical. The studies are required to be undertaken at minus 180 degrees celcius. Electromagnetic charge of the botanical material is due to some magnetic elements present in the material. The conc. of such elements is very low, sometimes in nanograms. It is also important to take a note that Dr. Suhas Rai has not published his results in any of the Scientific Research Journal. I have personally checked all the 'Scientific Abstrtacts' and 'Internet Search' for this. Comparison with Tulsi and especially with a nutmeg has no meaning, I feel. > > It is true thayt Rudraksha has some mystical properties to keep the balance of all Yogic Chakras. However, studies undertaken are superficial and the inference is made without any scientific data. Comments from physicists are required. > > Thanking you and with best wishes. > > Chandrashekhar Phadke > > "e. mars" <e_mars1133> wrote: > > Dear Members, > > Given Ole's friend Sparky's comments on the Rudraksha site's Subas RAi article, I wanted to get my own electrical guru's opinion on it. He is an electrical engineer with deep inclination to the spiritual but no exposure to Hinduism, etc. So, his bias is not against energetic modalities and spiritual media per se. Below are his comments (verbatim, and bald, please do not be offended) on the article--I gave him the following link: http://www.rudraksha- ratna.com/htm/biomedical.htm. > > "Scientifically, this website appears to be a load of rubbish. I don't want to question the real healing properties of the seeds. It's just that the person who wrote the article has little understanding of electricity and uses that ineffectively to explain the effects of the seeds. Mostly he seems to spout a lot of nothing. If you tell me that capacitance is measured in Farads and that the seeds have capacitive qualities, shouldn't I expect to know the capacitance of the seeds, scientifically measured in Farads? Not from that article. > > The first dubious point, which you should have caught, was that "any doctor" would tell you that 95% of all health problems are stress related and therefore psychosomatic. That statement is ludicrous. > > The seeds sound interesting. Unfortunately, sites like the one you linked me to will only increase any perception of them as quacky." > > > Though I personally am much more willing to take leaps of faith, as you have seen from my wish that people will start gathering "hard" data on the bead's usage, I really hope that serious studies can be done on the beads to make their usage and real benefits more palatableu to those who may be put off by the lack of critical thinking around them. > > So, regarding this article, does anyone who has a copy of the article in whatever language it was originally published in know if there is data missing in the excerpt, or if anything has been misrepresented in translation? If so, let's help Neeta repair the excerpt, and if not, I think it'd be great if our dear Rudra Centre members can work on replacing the article with something more solid. > > And, if there's simply no solid scientific work on the beads, then let's dispense of speaking of them in scientific terms until there is. OTherwise, it just looks like more energetic jive talk such as you see all over the place in half-baked New Age products and literature, and my sense is, that these beads deserve better than that. Regarding the spiritual "evidence" around them, there's still plenty to say regarding their usage by saints and their inclusion in the scriptures. > > With love and dedication to helping rudrakshas put their best face forward, > eliz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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