Guest guest Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 Namaskar Surya, Hope you are ready for this... and won't lose your cool. You may want to consider getting the scalpel out after reading below. Thank Shiva you did not buy the 21 mukhi in Haridwar or you will want to skin the dealer alive on your next trip. Yes, authentic 21 mukhi are booked in advance by those who can afford it. And the prices are indeed sky high (by most of our standards) at US$15,000 to US$20,000 for the Real Thing. In Haridwar, rudraksha higher than 12 mukhi are usually fakes. During this particular season, demand has been especially high and even 8 mukhis are faked by the carving of lines into lower mukhis. It has been confirmed by Rudra Centre India that suppliers in Haridwar openly mention that if they ever have genuine 14 mukhis, it is for supplying to Rudra Centre. This is because they do not have any clientele who will pay the actual market price of the authentic 14 mukhi due to cheaper fakes being sold all over the place. It is known that fake One mukhi Round are sold widely too. The best test to determine a genuine rudraksha from a fake bead is to cut it, then count the number of seeds inside . A 3 mukhi has 3 seeds, 4 mukhi has 4 and 14 mukhi has 14 and 21 faced has 21 seeds. This holds true for all beads of Nepali origin . In the case of Oval 2 mukhi and 3 mukhi from India , the seeds are not very prominent. If you cut a 2 mukhi Oval transversally, you would see two locules, one large and one very tiny. In the Oval 3 mukhi, there is one large locule and 2 almost invisible locules or marks in their place. If you cut an oval bead that is being sold widely as the "Round 1 mukhi" (this exterior is similar to Oval 3 mukhi), you will see an identical structure of the 3 mukhi Oval bead, i.e. one large locule and 2 insignificantly developed locules. This proves that the bead is actually a tampered 3 mukhi Oval. The above method of testing by cutting the beads, is important food for thought, courtesy of Miss Neeta and Rudra Centre. Om Namah Shivaya Sy , "mahamuni" <mahamuni@c...> wrote: > Sy, > > I have seen two 21 mukhi rudrakshas on my last trip to Northern India. Both were absolutely authentic and from very reputable dealers who had top quality material. I had dealt with both in the past. They absolutely are not booked years in advance. There is not just 2 or 3 fields supplying all of India. I'm not sure who is giving you this incorrect info. > > As far as price, I feel you are way off. 9 lahk rupees ($20,000) is off the wall, though I wouldn't doubt someone is trying to get this for one of these. $1500-2000 is more like it. I had a buyer for one in Haridwar (another Rudraksha dealer who had another customer waiting for one) and found one on my last day in Rishikesh. Could have profited 30,000 rps but I didn't have the time since it was my last day. I didn't have the funds to put down so much for myself. I had already made some super nice purchases of the smallest, nicest chiknas I had ever seen, plus quite a few 14 mukhis, GS beads of 11, and 14-17 mukhis, as well as some with one bead being one face. > > Anyway this is my experience. > > Surya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 dear syzenith i had been a shop which sells rudrakshas yesterday and he showed some five mukhi peppercorn size malas. when i asked him if he had any other mukhi beads he showed some three mukhi oval indian beads which i feel are really genuine. he has only 8-10 of them. what are the chances of 3 mukhi oval beads being fakes. the price is Rs. 30/- per bead. i am wearing a 3 mukhi round procured from rudra centre. i would also like to know the difference between 3 mukhi oval and round beads energy-wise or result. i am planning to wear 9 beads of 3 mukhi( for mars being a scorpio) + 9 beads of 6 mukhi (for i am born on bharani nakshatra-- say for venus) + 9 beads of 5 mukhi plus one (any other bead if u would suggest). kindly advise. syzenith <syzenith wrote: Namaskar Surya, Hope you are ready for this... and won't lose your cool. You may want to consider getting the scalpel out after reading below. Thank Shiva you did not buy the 21 mukhi in Haridwar or you will want to skin the dealer alive on your next trip. Yes, authentic 21 mukhi are booked in advance by those who can afford it. And the prices are indeed sky high (by most of our standards) at US$15,000 to US$20,000 for the Real Thing. In Haridwar, rudraksha higher than 12 mukhi are usually fakes. During this particular season, demand has been especially high and even 8 mukhis are faked by the carving of lines into lower mukhis. It has been confirmed by Rudra Centre India that suppliers in Haridwar openly mention that if they ever have genuine 14 mukhis, it is for supplying to Rudra Centre. This is because they do not have any clientele who will pay the actual market price of the authentic 14 mukhi due to cheaper fakes being sold all over the place. It is known that fake One mukhi Round are sold widely too. The best test to determine a genuine rudraksha from a fake bead is to cut it, then count the number of seeds inside . A 3 mukhi has 3 seeds, 4 mukhi has 4 and 14 mukhi has 14 and 21 faced has 21 seeds. This holds true for all beads of Nepali origin . In the case of Oval 2 mukhi and 3 mukhi from India , the seeds are not very prominent. If you cut a 2 mukhi Oval transversally, you would see two locules, one large and one very tiny. In the Oval 3 mukhi, there is one large locule and 2 almost invisible locules or marks in their place. If you cut an oval bead that is being sold widely as the "Round 1 mukhi" (this exterior is similar to Oval 3 mukhi), you will see an identical structure of the 3 mukhi Oval bead, i.e. one large locule and 2 insignificantly developed locules. This proves that the bead is actually a tampered 3 mukhi Oval. The above method of testing by cutting the beads, is important food for thought, courtesy of Miss Neeta and Rudra Centre. Om Namah Shivaya Sy , "mahamuni" <mahamuni@c...> wrote: > Sy, > > I have seen two 21 mukhi rudrakshas on my last trip to Northern India. Both were absolutely authentic and from very reputable dealers who had top quality material. I had dealt with both in the past. They absolutely are not booked years in advance. There is not just 2 or 3 fields supplying all of India. I'm not sure who is giving you this incorrect info. > > As far as price, I feel you are way off. 9 lahk rupees ($20,000) is off the wall, though I wouldn't doubt someone is trying to get this for one of these. $1500-2000 is more like it. I had a buyer for one in Haridwar (another Rudraksha dealer who had another customer waiting for one) and found one on my last day in Rishikesh. Could have profited 30,000 rps but I didn't have the time since it was my last day. I didn't have the funds to put down so much for myself. I had already made some super nice purchases of the smallest, nicest chiknas I had ever seen, plus quite a few 14 mukhis, GS beads of 11, and 14-17 mukhis, as well as some with one bead being one face. > > Anyway this is my experience. > > Surya To send an email to: Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 Namaste Syji, Thank you so much for these updates. Please continue to inform us as you get this information. Arjuna syzenith <syzenith wrote: Namaskar Surya, Hope you are ready for this... and won't lose your cool. You may want to consider getting the scalpel out after reading below. Thank Shiva you did not buy the 21 mukhi in Haridwar or you will want to skin the dealer alive on your next trip. Yes, authentic 21 mukhi are booked in advance by those who can afford it. And the prices are indeed sky high (by most of our standards) at US$15,000 to US$20,000 for the Real Thing. In Haridwar, rudraksha higher than 12 mukhi are usually fakes. During this particular season, demand has been especially high and even 8 mukhis are faked by the carving of lines into lower mukhis. It has been confirmed by Rudra Centre India that suppliers in Haridwar openly mention that if they ever have genuine 14 mukhis, it is for supplying to Rudra Centre. This is because they do not have any clientele who will pay the actual market price of the authentic 14 mukhi due to cheaper fakes being sold all over the place. It is known that fake One mukhi Round are sold widely too. The best test to determine a genuine rudraksha from a fake bead is to cut it, then count the number of seeds inside . A 3 mukhi has 3 seeds, 4 mukhi has 4 and 14 mukhi has 14 and 21 faced has 21 seeds. This holds true for all beads of Nepali origin . In the case of Oval 2 mukhi and 3 mukhi from India , the seeds are not very prominent. If you cut a 2 mukhi Oval transversally, you would see two locules, one large and one very tiny. In the Oval 3 mukhi, there is one large locule and 2 almost invisible locules or marks in their place. If you cut an oval bead that is being sold widely as the "Round 1 mukhi" (this exterior is similar to Oval 3 mukhi), you will see an identical structure of the 3 mukhi Oval bead, i.e. one large locule and 2 insignificantly developed locules. This proves that the bead is actually a tampered 3 mukhi Oval. The above method of testing by cutting the beads, is important food for thought, courtesy of Miss Neeta and Rudra Centre. Om Namah Shivaya Sy , "mahamuni" <mahamuni@c...> wrote: > Sy, > > I have seen two 21 mukhi rudrakshas on my last trip to Northern India. Both were absolutely authentic and from very reputable dealers who had top quality material. I had dealt with both in the past. They absolutely are not booked years in advance. There is not just 2 or 3 fields supplying all of India. I'm not sure who is giving you this incorrect info. > > As far as price, I feel you are way off. 9 lahk rupees ($20,000) is off the wall, though I wouldn't doubt someone is trying to get this for one of these. $1500-2000 is more like it. I had a buyer for one in Haridwar (another Rudraksha dealer who had another customer waiting for one) and found one on my last day in Rishikesh. Could have profited 30,000 rps but I didn't have the time since it was my last day. I didn't have the funds to put down so much for myself. I had already made some super nice purchases of the smallest, nicest chiknas I had ever seen, plus quite a few 14 mukhis, GS beads of 11, and 14-17 mukhis, as well as some with one bead being one face. > > Anyway this is my experience. > > Surya To send an email to: Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 Sy, What you are saying is absolutely incorrect. Please don't take offense, but Ms Neeta is doing what all the shopkeepers in India do--talk badly about other sellers while praising themselves saying only they have the genuine ones. She is WRONG. You use her as your source of info because you trust her. That is fine but I can tell you that she is wrong. Period. I know that might not be easy to stomach but that is the truth. While I agree that most shops in Haridwar and Rishikesh are not to be trusted, there are some very reputable shops there, but only a few in each location. I visited EVERY ONE and consulted with the Babas who were expert in these beads. Not just any babas, but the ones expert in this knowledge. Not all are rip offs and fakes. Haridwar is a VERY HOLY city of Shiva. One of the 4 place Amrit, the nectar of Immortality, fell. Believe me that Lord Shiva resides there and He is to be found if looked for sincerely. Rudraksha are Lord Shiva Himself so of course the True Rudrakshas exist there as well. Though just like there are many fake babas, etc., there are many fake rudrakshas. While I don't condone or appreciate these poor people trying to make a living this way and think it is a great sin, I dont' condemn them either. I just have compassion for them. If I had bought the 21 face, I would have resold it right away so there was no fear. While there are some VERY good fakes of 12s into 14s, with enough patience and magnification one can tell. But there are ABSOLUTELY real 13s, 14s, etc to be found in Haridwar and there are people who can pay the price and buy them. I feel very confident in my ability to detect real from fake. I've been doing this for 10 years already. I'm certainly not going to cut open any of my 14 face beads. The thought of me cutting open any of my prized rudrakshas is more than I could bear. Cutting Lord Shiva in half is not the karma I want. I base my knowledge on my own personal experience and research. Again with no offense, you are basing yours on someone else's who like it or not is compromised due to her desire to sell these beads. I'm not in the business of reselling at this point in time. I have no agenda whatsoever. I did buy some nice beads from Dharma Dev when we met but to be honest I found much nicer GS beads and 14 face beads at the true and good shops in Haridwar and Rishikesh. Both larger and nicer. Think about this, since all these beads come from Nepal pretty much (talking about larger round multi mukhis) how is it that all of Haridwar has the fakes but only Miss Neeta has the legitimates? This does not make sense. If you spent some time in the market places of India and see how these shop keepers work, you will understand the Indian mindset much better regarding business. I don't care for it myself. I look for the diamonds in the rough and with effort and determination, I find them. There are a few tricks to use that I won't go into here. But believe me, no shopkeeper wants to piss off a well known and powerful Naga Baba like some that I hang out with. The oval beads are a whole other matter and are as you stated. They are truly only 3 face beads of another species. When picked immature they can be 2 or 1 but these are not the real deal. Even the cashew style one face sold by Rudra Center are NOT the real deal. They know it. Everyone knows it. Those are beautiful in their own right, but the real deal is almost non existant and is round. But due to so many reading about the 1 face in the scripture, and everyone wanting one, the supply was created. That is enough for now. Jai Mahadev! Jai Maa! syzenith <syzenith wrote: Namaskar Surya, Hope you are ready for this... and won't lose your cool. You may want to consider getting the scalpel out after reading below. Thank Shiva you did not buy the 21 mukhi in Haridwar or you will want to skin the dealer alive on your next trip. Yes, authentic 21 mukhi are booked in advance by those who can afford it. And the prices are indeed sky high (by most of our standards) at US$15,000 to US$20,000 for the Real Thing. In Haridwar, rudraksha higher than 12 mukhi are usually fakes. During this particular season, demand has been especially high and even 8 mukhis are faked by the carving of lines into lower mukhis. It has been confirmed by Rudra Centre India that suppliers in Haridwar openly mention that if they ever have genuine 14 mukhis, it is for supplying to Rudra Centre. This is because they do not have any clientele who will pay the actual market price of the authentic 14 mukhi due to cheaper fakes being sold all over the place. It is known that fake One mukhi Round are sold widely too. The best test to determine a genuine rudraksha from a fake bead is to cut it, then count the number of seeds inside . A 3 mukhi has 3 seeds, 4 mukhi has 4 and 14 mukhi has 14 and 21 faced has 21 seeds. This holds true for all beads of Nepali origin . In the case of Oval 2 mukhi and 3 mukhi from India , the seeds are not very prominent. If you cut a 2 mukhi Oval transversally, you would see two locules, one large and one very tiny. In the Oval 3 mukhi, there is one large locule and 2 almost invisible locules or marks in their place. If you cut an oval bead that is being sold widely as the "Round 1 mukhi" (this exterior is similar to Oval 3 mukhi), you will see an identical structure of the 3 mukhi Oval bead, i.e. one large locule and 2 insignificantly developed locules. This proves that the bead is actually a tampered 3 mukhi Oval. The above method of testing by cutting the beads, is important food for thought, courtesy of Miss Neeta and Rudra Centre. Om Namah Shivaya Sy , "mahamuni" <mahamuni@c...> wrote: > Sy, > > I have seen two 21 mukhi rudrakshas on my last trip to Northern India. Both were absolutely authentic and from very reputable dealers who had top quality material. I had dealt with both in the past. They absolutely are not booked years in advance. There is not just 2 or 3 fields supplying all of India. I'm not sure who is giving you this incorrect info. > > As far as price, I feel you are way off. 9 lahk rupees ($20,000) is off the wall, though I wouldn't doubt someone is trying to get this for one of these. $1500-2000 is more like it. I had a buyer for one in Haridwar (another Rudraksha dealer who had another customer waiting for one) and found one on my last day in Rishikesh. Could have profited 30,000 rps but I didn't have the time since it was my last day. I didn't have the funds to put down so much for myself. I had already made some super nice purchases of the smallest, nicest chiknas I had ever seen, plus quite a few 14 mukhis, GS beads of 11, and 14-17 mukhis, as well as some with one bead being one face. > > Anyway this is my experience. > > Surya Sponsor To send an email to: Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard Sponsor To send an email to: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 Dear Syzenith, I do not agree with you in connection with the internal structures of oval 1, 2 and 3 mukhi beads. I have in my collection all the above three genuine types. External characters as far as no. of clefts are concerned are definitely 1, 2 and 3 clefts, and not by sealing 2 clefts living only one cleft in case of one mukhi. I have critically observed this under a high resolution microscope and also by boling in water, oil and by treating with nitrous oxide. If you want I am ready to send 1 mukhi oval bead to you for its examination. I have also studied internal anatomical structures of all the above three types of the beads. Surprisingly, it is same for 1, 2 and 3 mukhi beads. Only one developed locule with a well developed seed was observed in all the above beads. Two locules were in the rudimentory stage. I also checked botanical description for this. It is mentioned that in case of ovary having less no. locules, rudimentory locules is a rule in case of few species. I also checked the internal structures of a nepal 3 mukhi bead, it shows 3 locules with 3 seeds inside it. I would like to know, in case of Indian beads (Haridwar oval beads from 1 to 3 mukhi) if its internal structure is same, whether there is any difference in its spiritual or medicinal characters ? As you know, cost of genuine Haridwar 1 mukhi varies from Rs. 2500/- to Rs. 5000/-, two mukhi of the similar type costs Rs. 200 and a three mukhi for Rs. 100/-. One mukhi authentic oval beads are definitely available and there is no point in always critising that it is a necessarily fake bead from 3 mukhi. I am ready to send you the sample if you want. Thanking you and with best wishes. Chandrashekhar Phadke. Arjuna <arjunaacharya wrote: Namaste Syji, Thank you so much for these updates. Please continue to inform us as you get this information. Arjuna syzenith <syzenith wrote: Namaskar Surya, Hope you are ready for this... and won't lose your cool. You may want to consider getting the scalpel out after reading below. Thank Shiva you did not buy the 21 mukhi in Haridwar or you will want to skin the dealer alive on your next trip. Yes, authentic 21 mukhi are booked in advance by those who can afford it. And the prices are indeed sky high (by most of our standards) at US$15,000 to US$20,000 for the Real Thing. In Haridwar, rudraksha higher than 12 mukhi are usually fakes. During this particular season, demand has been especially high and even 8 mukhis are faked by the carving of lines into lower mukhis. It has been confirmed by Rudra Centre India that suppliers in Haridwar openly mention that if they ever have genuine 14 mukhis, it is for supplying to Rudra Centre. This is because they do not have any clientele who will pay the actual market price of the authentic 14 mukhi due to cheaper fakes being sold all over the place. It is known that fake One mukhi Round are sold widely too. The best test to determine a genuine rudraksha from a fake bead is to cut it, then count the number of seeds inside . A 3 mukhi has 3 seeds, 4 mukhi has 4 and 14 mukhi has 14 and 21 faced has 21 seeds. This holds true for all beads of Nepali origin . In the case of Oval 2 mukhi and 3 mukhi from India , the seeds are not very prominent. If you cut a 2 mukhi Oval transversally, you would see two locules, one large and one very tiny. In the Oval 3 mukhi, there is one large locule and 2 almost invisible locules or marks in their place. If you cut an oval bead that is being sold widely as the "Round 1 mukhi" (this exterior is similar to Oval 3 mukhi), you will see an identical structure of the 3 mukhi Oval bead, i.e. one large locule and 2 insignificantly developed locules. This proves that the bead is actually a tampered 3 mukhi Oval. The above method of testing by cutting the beads, is important food for thought, courtesy of Miss Neeta and Rudra Centre. Om Namah Shivaya Sy , "mahamuni" <mahamuni@c...> wrote: > Sy, > > I have seen two 21 mukhi rudrakshas on my last trip to Northern India. Both were absolutely authentic and from very reputable dealers who had top quality material. I had dealt with both in the past. They absolutely are not booked years in advance. There is not just 2 or 3 fields supplying all of India. I'm not sure who is giving you this incorrect info. > > As far as price, I feel you are way off. 9 lahk rupees ($20,000) is off the wall, though I wouldn't doubt someone is trying to get this for one of these. $1500-2000 is more like it. I had a buyer for one in Haridwar (another Rudraksha dealer who had another customer waiting for one) and found one on my last day in Rishikesh. Could have profited 30,000 rps but I didn't have the time since it was my last day. I didn't have the funds to put down so much for myself. I had already made some super nice purchases of the smallest, nicest chiknas I had ever seen, plus quite a few 14 mukhis, GS beads of 11, and 14-17 mukhis, as well as some with one bead being one face. > > Anyway this is my experience. > > Surya To send an email to: Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard To send an email to: Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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