Guest guest Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 Dear Syzenith, This in connection with 21 mukhi beads. Last year I showed 21 mukhi beads to Mrs. Neetaji and Mr. Tanayji during their exibition at World Trade Centre, Bombay. Both of them said that the beads are fake and are so called 'Supari beads'. This was a challenge to my botanical knowledge. I cut the bead and send enlarged coloured pictures of it to Mrs. Neetaji discussing the anatomical structures of it. This includes placental tissue for nourishment of seeds as a central core, axial placentation and 21 locules with 21 seeds (only in 3 locules seeds were poorly developed). The bead was a 21 Mukhi Nepal bead but of rough or coarse quality and not a Patthari type of bead. These beads are much cheaper than Pathari type. In Haridwar you get rough genuine higher mukhi beads in a cheaper rate. Unfortunately, these beads are criticised as fake beads by people who do not have botanical knowledge. 'M/S. Kanhiyalal Asolamal' is one of the famous 100 years old firm dealing with Rudraksha and other holy items. The firm is also one of the supplier to the Rudra Centre. This firm has written an informative book on Rudraksha in Hindi. In this book there is mention about oval one mukhi and about rough quality (Hindi term they have used is 'Khurdura' bead). If you cut these beads you can see well developed locules and seeds inside it. Mrs. Neetaji was of the opinion that possibly these are cut clefts and pasted again on a lack ball. I did not accept this. Natural partion between any two locules is very thin and it was impossible in the bead under study to have artisan's role. I suggested Mrs. Neetaji, to show this to any classical botanist eiether in Nagpur or Delhi University. She did not and is still firm on her views and I am on my views. Fake beads made by cutting and pasteing of clefts look very unnatural. I am personally of the opinion that these rough quality beads should be popularsied for the benefit of the people who can not afford expensive higher beads. I personally use rough quality 11 mukhi, 14 mukhi and 21 mukhi beads. These beads do not look good but are definitely genuine. If any club member has any doubt, he/she may contact the firm I mentioned and any reputed botany department. Recognition of these beads will definitely bring down the prices of Nepal Patthari beads. About Nepal 21 mukhi beads shown to Rudra Centre and Mrs. Neetaji, I am writing seperately. Thanking you and with best wishes. Chandrashekhar Phadke syzenith <syzenith wrote: Namaste Chandrashekhar, You are not going to like what I'm about to mention.. But please know that I mean well for consumer protection and also to learn the truth about genuine rudraksha. You can't see my face, eyes or my mouth. If you can, you will know that all is said without ill feelings, and all is said with love to everyone. You can kill me if you like :-) I've already died before :-) Thank you for your message too. Yes generally, many Eka mukhi wre made from 3 mukhi Oval. I cannot dispute your high qualifications and profession. Congratulations for your great talent in your field and reaching the position of senior scientist. But as a hobby and research, there is much to learn about rudraksha for everyone, everyday. I cannot agree regarding internal structures in the meantime. Your anatomical studies do not convince me, not yet.. There are further tests I need to do, then later discuss about it here. I'm not saying you are wrong. Maybe I am the one who is wrong. But after these tests, maybe we can agree about the truth. Thanking for rising to the occasion and offering out of your own free will to send the beads at no charge. Don't worry about Australian quarantine. They will scan the parcel, then open and check contents, then blast it with Gamma rays before releasing parcel for dispatch to me. Just write the words on the Customs Declaration form : "Hindu Religous Beads". If you don't register the parcel, it may get lost. But first, please read the rest of what I'm going to mention, then decide if you still want to send the beads to Australia. What is the botanical species of the One Mukhi Round you have in your possession? Again, it is my conviction that Eka Mukhi RounD is a legend, a myth having a place in the Scriptures but not found to date in modern times. Didn't you visit Miss Neeta to show your beads? Do you sell them? I heard last month that you again went from Pune to show 2 pieces of 21 mukhi at Rudra Centre. Then it was proved to you that these were 10 mukhi and 11 mukhi cut by sharp knife to get extra lines. The 13 and 14 mukhis previously shown by you were also lower mukhi beads carved to high mukhi. The 3 mukhi Oval from Rudra Centre for US$1.50 each, has exactly the same internal structure as the One mukhi Oval you had. Doesn't this mean it was cut from 3 mukhi oval bead? Last year you also took a 21 mukhi to show Miss Neeta which was made by gluing together 21 segments of lower mukhis. Tatt Twam Asi Sy , chandrashekhar phadake <c_phadake> wrote: > > > Dear Syzenith, > > Thank you very much for your mail. I do agree that you have not mentioned that above 3 mukhis are fake. As far as oval one mukhi bead is concerned, there is a general impression that these are always made from 3 mukhi oval bead by sealing the other two clefts. I am of the opinion that this is cent per cent not a correct opinion. There may be fakes but definitely there are genuine beads also in this type. Basically, I am a biotechnologist. I did my M.Sc., Ph.D. in Botany and presently working as a senior scientist. Rudraksha is my hobby and a research interest. I have mentioned my opinion about internal anatomical structures after careful studies. In short, 1, 2, and 3 mukhi oval beads show similar anatomical structures i.e. there is only one well developed locule and a seed, other two locules are not developed and one can see rudimentary structures of it. I am ready to send you the beads without any charge, as it is for a scientific research purpose and to remove > misunderstandings about the beads. However, I do not have any idea about quarantine regulations in Australia. I am also ready to send it to any body in India if you suggest. Kindly send your postal address. > > As far as one mukhi round bead you have mentioned, I have very few beads of this type. These beads are generally 10 to 14 mm. in its diameter. I have only one bead which has a larger diam. ( approx. 2 cms.). Colour of these beads is light yellowish brown to reddish brown, very rarely it is sandy white. The ornamentation is different from the normal rudrakshas. It is slightly angular pentagonal to hexagonal (you can see hexagonal and pentagonal structures on the bead instead of a granular structures). Stalk is natural and intact. There is only one cleft. This cleft is generally kept covered with the natural bluish black cover only in the cleft portion. Cleft is well developed but does not have any elevations in its margin (which is a main character of any cleft) and is in the plane of the other bead tissue. Definitely it is not a tampered bead by sealing the rest of the 4 clefts. However, if peduncle or fruit stalk is removed, you can see a natural hole. Surrounding > this natural opening one can see five very shallow groves of not more than 1mm. in length. This is an indication that there may be 5 locules inside the bead. I cut open only one bead so far, as it is expensive. It shows poorly developed 5 locules. It is very difficult to interprete these observations, as from the exterior it is a definitely round one mukhi bead, however internally it has 5 locules. >From its external character, I can not call it as fake bead. In this regard, I do agree with Chinmaya mission that no body really knows what is the internal structure of a genuine 1mukhi and can not critisise this bead. Logically, genuine 1 mukhi should have only one locule and a seed. But with the experience of the oval 1,2 and 3 mukhi as described earlier, it seems that one can not make any definite conclusion or interpretation. Botanical matertial has many times variations. > > Thanking you and with best wishes. > > Chandrashekhar Phadke > > > > > syzenith <syzenith> wrote: Namaste Chandrashekhar, > > Thank you for your message. I will have to re-read this and form my > own humble conclusions eventually about internal or anatomical > structures, locules, etc. Will post here after experimenting with a > few things, and only if there are successful results. > > An Oval One Mukhi, this is fascinating. Thanks for your kind offer > to send it for my examination. How much is this particular bead in > US dollars? Its been a long time since I journeyed in Mother India > so my brain can't translate rupees very well sometimes. Shall think > about it and see..... If you send to me, then I will have to buy it > from you because I would only test by cutting it open. While most > people do not want to keep cut-open beads, I believe the Shakti > still exists in rudraksha even after they're cut. > > Shall also check with other verification places to see if they will > test without cutting open. If they can do this, then you can send > them the bead. After that, they can return it to you safely. > > Please read my sentences slowly in previous messages. I didn't talk > about mukhis from 3 faces upwards being fakes. Nor did I criticise > about fakes. Was just putting info up for discussion, hoping that > someone can point the light towards me if I'm wrong in my studies. > > Pretty sure I said along the lines of "from 12 mukhi upwards, duds > are likely to be more abundant". > > I didn't say Oval shapes are not available, though I mentioned "One > Mukhi Round" is virtually extinct. > > Thanking yourself too, with good wishes. > > Om Namah Shivaya > Sy > > , chandrashekhar > phadake <c_phadake> wrote: > > Dear Syzenith, > > > > I do not agree with you in connection with the internal structures > of oval 1, 2 and 3 mukhi beads. I have in my collection all the > above three genuine types. External characters as far as no. of > clefts are concerned are definitely 1, 2 and 3 clefts, and not by > sealing 2 clefts living only one cleft in case of one mukhi. I have > critically observed this under a high resolution microscope and also > by boling in water, oil and by treating with nitrous oxide. If you > want I am ready to send 1 mukhi oval bead to you for its > examination. > > I have also studied internal anatomical structures of all the above > three types of the beads. Surprisingly, it is same for 1, 2 and 3 > mukhi beads. Only one developed locule with a well developed seed > was observed in all the above beads. Two locules were in the > rudimentory stage. I also checked botanical description for this. > It is mentioned that in case of ovary having less no. locules, > rudimentory locules is a rule in case of few species. > > I also > > checked the internal structures of a nepal 3 mukhi bead, it shows > 3 locules with 3 seeds inside it. > > I would like to know, in case of Indian beads (Haridwar oval beads > from 1 to 3 mukhi) if its internal structure is same, whether there > is any difference in its spiritual or medicinal characters ? > > As you know, cost of genuine Haridwar 1 mukhi varies from Rs. 2500/- > to Rs. 5000/-, two mukhi of the similar type costs Rs. 200 and a > three mukhi for Rs. 100/-. One mukhi authentic oval beads are > definitely available and there is no point in always critising that > it is a necessarily fake bead from 3 mukhi. I am ready to send you > the sample if you want. > > > > Thanking you and with best wishes. > > > > Chandrashekhar Phadke. > > > Sponsor > To send an email to: - > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard > > To send an email to: India Mobile: Ringtones, Wallpapers, Picture Messages and more.Download now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 Excellent post! I am looking forward to your other. Surya - chandrashekhar phadke Thursday, November 13, 2003 9:19 AM Re: RBSC : 21 mukhi rough Nepal bead. Dear Syzenith, This in connection with 21 mukhi beads. Last year I showed 21 mukhi beads to Mrs. Neetaji and Mr. Tanayji during their exibition at World Trade Centre, Bombay. Both of them said that the beads are fake and are so called 'Supari beads'. This was a challenge to my botanical knowledge. I cut the bead and send enlarged coloured pictures of it to Mrs. Neetaji discussing the anatomical structures of it. This includes placental tissue for nourishment of seeds as a central core, axial placentation and 21 locules with 21 seeds (only in 3 locules seeds were poorly developed). The bead was a 21 Mukhi Nepal bead but of rough or coarse quality and not a Patthari type of bead. These beads are much cheaper than Pathari type. In Haridwar you get rough genuine higher mukhi beads in a cheaper rate. Unfortunately, these beads are criticised as fake beads by people who do not have botanical knowledge. 'M/S. Kanhiyalal Asolamal' is one of the famous 100 years old firm dealing with Rudraksha and other holy items. The firm is also one of the supplier to the Rudra Centre. This firm has written an informative book on Rudraksha in Hindi. In this book there is mention about oval one mukhi and about rough quality (Hindi term they have used is 'Khurdura' bead). If you cut these beads you can see well developed locules and seeds inside it. Mrs. Neetaji was of the opinion that possibly these are cut clefts and pasted again on a lack ball. I did not accept this. Natural partion between any two locules is very thin and it was impossible in the bead under study to have artisan's role. I suggested Mrs. Neetaji, to show this to any classical botanist eiether in Nagpur or Delhi University. She did not and is still firm on her views and I am on my views. Fake beads made by cutting and pasteing of clefts look very unnatural. I am personally of the opinion that these rough quality beads should be popularsied for the benefit of the people who can not afford expensive higher beads. I personally use rough quality 11 mukhi, 14 mukhi and 21 mukhi beads. These beads do not look good but are definitely genuine. If any club member has any doubt, he/she may contact the firm I mentioned and any reputed botany department. Recognition of these beads will definitely bring down the prices of Nepal Patthari beads. About Nepal 21 mukhi beads shown to Rudra Centre and Mrs. Neetaji, I am writing seperately. Thanking you and with best wishes. Chandrashekhar Phadke syzenith <syzenith wrote: Namaste Chandrashekhar, You are not going to like what I'm about to mention.. But please know that I mean well for consumer protection and also to learn the truth about genuine rudraksha. You can't see my face, eyes or my mouth. If you can, you will know that all is said without ill feelings, and all is said with love to everyone. You can kill me if you like :-) I've already died before :-) Thank you for your message too. Yes generally, many Eka mukhi wre made from 3 mukhi Oval. I cannot dispute your high qualifications and profession. Congratulations for your great talent in your field and reaching the position of senior scientist. But as a hobby and research, there is much to learn about rudraksha for everyone, everyday. I cannot agree regarding internal structures in the meantime. Your anatomical studies do not convince me, not yet.. There are further tests I need to do, then later discuss about it here. I'm not saying you are wrong. Maybe I am the one who is wrong. But after these tests, maybe we can agree about the truth. Thanking for rising to the occasion and offering out of your own free will to send the beads at no charge. Don't worry about Australian quarantine. They will scan the parcel, then open and check contents, then blast it with Gamma rays before releasing parcel for dispatch to me. Just write the words on the Customs Declaration form : "Hindu Religous Beads". If you don't register the parcel, it may get lost. But first, please read the rest of what I'm going to mention, then decide if you still want to send the beads to Australia. What is the botanical species of the One Mukhi Round you have in your possession? Again, it is my conviction that Eka Mukhi RounD is a legend, a myth having a place in the Scriptures but not found to date in modern times. Didn't you visit Miss Neeta to show your beads? Do you sell them? I heard last month that you again went from Pune to show 2 pieces of 21 mukhi at Rudra Centre. Then it was proved to you that these were 10 mukhi and 11 mukhi cut by sharp knife to get extra lines. The 13 and 14 mukhis previously shown by you were also lower mukhi beads carved to high mukhi. The 3 mukhi Oval from Rudra Centre for US$1.50 each, has exactly the same internal structure as the One mukhi Oval you had. Doesn't this mean it was cut from 3 mukhi oval bead? Last year you also took a 21 mukhi to show Miss Neeta which was made by gluing together 21 segments of lower mukhis. Tatt Twam Asi Sy , chandrashekhar phadake <c_phadake> wrote: > > > Dear Syzenith, > > Thank you very much for your mail. I do agree that you have not mentioned that above 3 mukhis are fake. As far as oval one mukhi bead is concerned, there is a general impression that these are always made from 3 mukhi oval bead by sealing the other two clefts. I am of the opinion that this is cent per cent not a correct opinion. There may be fakes but definitely there are genuine beads also in this type. Basically, I am a biotechnologist. I did my M.Sc., Ph.D. in Botany and presently working as a senior scientist. Rudraksha is my hobby and a research interest. I have mentioned my opinion about internal anatomical structures after careful studies. In short, 1, 2, and 3 mukhi oval beads show similar anatomical structures i.e. there is only one well developed locule and a seed, other two locules are not developed and one can see rudimentary structures of it. I am ready to send you the beads without any charge, as it is for a scientific research purpose and to remove > misunderstandings about the beads. However, I do not have any idea about quarantine regulations in Australia. I am also ready to send it to any body in India if you suggest. Kindly send your postal address. > > As far as one mukhi round bead you have mentioned, I have very few beads of this type. These beads are generally 10 to 14 mm. in its diameter. I have only one bead which has a larger diam. ( approx. 2 cms.). Colour of these beads is light yellowish brown to reddish brown, very rarely it is sandy white. The ornamentation is different from the normal rudrakshas. It is slightly angular pentagonal to hexagonal (you can see hexagonal and pentagonal structures on the bead instead of a granular structures). Stalk is natural and intact. There is only one cleft. This cleft is generally kept covered with the natural bluish black cover only in the cleft portion. Cleft is well developed but does not have any elevations in its margin (which is a main character of any cleft) and is in the plane of the other bead tissue. Definitely it is not a tampered bead by sealing the rest of the 4 clefts. However, if peduncle or fruit stalk is removed, you can see a natural hole. Surrounding > this natural opening one can see five very shallow groves of not more than 1mm. in length. This is an indication that there may be 5 locules inside the bead. I cut open only one bead so far, as it is expensive. It shows poorly developed 5 locules. It is very difficult to interprete these observations, as from the exterior it is a definitely round one mukhi bead, however internally it has 5 locules. From its external character, I can not call it as fake bead. In this regard, I do agree with Chinmaya mission that no body really knows what is the internal structure of a genuine 1mukhi and can not critisise this bead. Logically, genuine 1 mukhi should have only one locule and a seed. But with the experience of the oval 1,2 and 3 mukhi as described earlier, it seems that one can not make any definite conclusion or interpretation. Botanical matertial has many times variations. > > Thanking you and with best wishes. > > Chandrashekhar Phadke > > > > > syzenith <syzenith> wrote: Namaste Chandrashekhar, > > Thank you for your message. I will have to re-read this and form my > own humble conclusions eventually about internal or anatomical > structures, locules, etc. Will post here after experimenting with a > few things, and only if there are successful results. > > An Oval One Mukhi, this is fascinating. Thanks for your kind offer > to send it for my examination. How much is this particular bead in > US dollars? Its been a long time since I journeyed in Mother India > so my brain can't translate rupees very well sometimes. Shall think > about it and see..... If you send to me, then I will have to buy it > from you because I would only test by cutting it open. While most > people do not want to keep cut-open beads, I believe the Shakti > still exists in rudraksha even after they're cut. > > Shall also check with other verification places to see if they will > test without cutting open. If they can do this, then you can send > them the bead. After that, they can return it to you safely. > > Please read my sentences slowly in previous messages. I didn't talk > about mukhis from 3 faces upwards being fakes. Nor did I criticise > about fakes. Was just putting info up for discussion, hoping that > someone can point the light towards me if I'm wrong in my studies. > > Pretty sure I said along the lines of "from 12 mukhi upwards, duds > are likely to be more abundant". > > I didn't say Oval shapes are not available, though I mentioned "One > Mukhi Round" is virtually extinct. > > Thanking yourself too, with good wishes. > > Om Namah Shivaya > Sy > > , chandrashekhar > phadake <c_phadake> wrote: > > Dear Syzenith, > > > > I do not agree with you in connection with the internal structures > of oval 1, 2 and 3 mukhi beads. I have in my collection all the > above three genuine types. External characters as far as no. of > clefts are concerned are definitely 1, 2 and 3 clefts, and not by > sealing 2 clefts living only one cleft in case of one mukhi. I have > critically observed this under a high resolution microscope and also > by boling in water, oil and by treating with nitrous oxide. If you > want I am ready to send 1 mukhi oval bead to you for its > examination. > > I have also studied internal anatomical structures of all the above > three types of the beads. Surprisingly, it is same for 1, 2 and 3 > mukhi beads. Only one developed locule with a well developed seed > was observed in all the above beads. Two locules were in the > rudimentory stage. I also checked botanical description for this. > It is mentioned that in case of ovary having less no. locules, > rudimentory locules is a rule in case of few species. > > I also > > checked the internal structures of a nepal 3 mukhi bead, it shows > 3 locules with 3 seeds inside it. > > I would like to know, in case of Indian beads (Haridwar oval beads > from 1 to 3 mukhi) if its internal structure is same, whether there > is any difference in its spiritual or medicinal characters ? > > As you know, cost of genuine Haridwar 1 mukhi varies from Rs. 2500/- > to Rs. 5000/-, two mukhi of the similar type costs Rs. 200 and a > three mukhi for Rs. 100/-. One mukhi authentic oval beads are > definitely available and there is no point in always critising that > it is a necessarily fake bead from 3 mukhi. I am ready to send you > the sample if you want. > > > > Thanking you and with best wishes. > > > > Chandrashekhar Phadke. > > > Sponsor > To send an email to: - > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard > > Sponsor To send an email to: India Mobile: Ringtones, Wallpapers, Picture Messages and more.Download now. Sponsor To send an email to: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 i meant to say the signal to noise ratio has gone up considerably with your posts:-) , chandrashekhar phadke <chphadke> wrote: > Dear Syzenith, > > This in connection with 21 mukhi beads. Last year I showed 21 mukhi beads to Mrs. Neetaji and Mr. Tanayji during their exibition at World Trade Centre, Bombay. Both of them said that the beads are fake and are so called 'Supari beads'. This was a challenge to my botanical knowledge. I cut the bead and send enlarged coloured pictures of it to Mrs. Neetaji discussing the anatomical structures of it. This includes placental tissue for nourishment of seeds as a central core, axial placentation and 21 locules with 21 seeds (only in 3 locules seeds were poorly developed). The bead was a 21 Mukhi Nepal bead but of rough or coarse quality and not a Patthari type of bead. These beads are much cheaper than Pathari type. In Haridwar you get rough genuine higher mukhi beads in a cheaper rate. Unfortunately, these beads are criticised as fake beads by people who do not have botanical knowledge. 'M/S. Kanhiyalal Asolamal' is one of the famous 100 years old firm dealing with Rudraksha > and other holy items. The firm is also one of the supplier to the Rudra Centre. This firm has written an informative book on Rudraksha in Hindi. In this book there is mention about oval one mukhi and about rough quality (Hindi term they have used is 'Khurdura' bead). If you cut these beads you can see well developed locules and seeds inside it. Mrs. Neetaji was of the opinion that possibly these are cut clefts and pasted again on a lack ball. I did not accept this. Natural partion between any two locules is very thin and it was impossible in the bead under study to have artisan's role. I suggested Mrs. Neetaji, to show this to any classical botanist eiether in Nagpur or Delhi University. She did not and is still firm on her views and I am on my views. Fake beads made by cutting and pasteing of clefts look very unnatural. I am personally of the opinion that these rough quality beads should be popularsied for the benefit of the people who can not afford expensive higher > beads. I personally use rough quality 11 mukhi, 14 mukhi and 21 mukhi beads. These beads do not look good but are definitely genuine. If any club member has any doubt, he/she may contact the firm I mentioned and any reputed botany department. Recognition of these beads will definitely bring down the prices of Nepal Patthari beads. About Nepal 21 mukhi beads shown to Rudra Centre and Mrs. Neetaji, I am writing seperately. > > Thanking you and with best wishes. > > Chandrashekhar Phadke > > syzenith <syzenith> wrote: > Namaste Chandrashekhar, > > You are not going to like what I'm about to mention.. But please > know that I mean well for consumer protection and also to learn the > truth about genuine rudraksha. > > You can't see my face, eyes or my mouth. If you can, you will know > that all is said without ill feelings, and all is said with love to > everyone. You can kill me if you like :-) I've already died > before :-) > > Thank you for your message too. Yes generally, many Eka mukhi wre > made from 3 mukhi Oval. I cannot dispute your high qualifications > and profession. Congratulations for your great talent in your field > and reaching the position of senior scientist. But as a hobby and > research, there is much to learn about rudraksha for everyone, > everyday. > > I cannot agree regarding internal structures in the meantime. Your > anatomical studies do not convince me, not yet.. There are further > tests I need to do, then later discuss about it here. I'm not > saying you are wrong. Maybe I am the one who is wrong. But after > these tests, maybe we can agree about the truth. > > Thanking for rising to the occasion and offering out of your own > free will to send the beads at no charge. Don't worry about > Australian quarantine. They will scan the parcel, then open and > check contents, then blast it with Gamma rays before releasing > parcel for dispatch to me. Just write the words on the Customs > Declaration form : "Hindu Religous Beads". If you don't register > the parcel, it may get lost. > > But first, please read the rest of what I'm going to mention, then > decide if you still want to send the beads to Australia. > > What is the botanical species of the One Mukhi Round you have in > your possession? > > Again, it is my conviction that Eka Mukhi RounD is a legend, a myth > having a place in the Scriptures but not found to date in modern > times. > > Didn't you visit Miss Neeta to show your beads? Do you sell them? I > heard last month that you again went from Pune to show 2 pieces of > 21 mukhi at Rudra Centre. Then it was proved to you that these were > 10 mukhi and 11 mukhi cut by sharp knife to get extra lines. The 13 > and 14 mukhis previously shown by you were also lower mukhi beads > carved to high mukhi. > > The 3 mukhi Oval from Rudra Centre for US$1.50 each, has exactly the > same internal structure as the One mukhi Oval you had. Doesn't this > mean it was cut from 3 mukhi oval bead? > > Last year you also took a 21 mukhi to show Miss Neeta which was made > by gluing together 21 segments of lower mukhis. > > Tatt Twam Asi > Sy > > , chandrashekhar > phadake <c_phadake> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Syzenith, > > > > Thank you very much for your mail. I do agree that you have not > mentioned that above 3 mukhis are fake. As far as oval one mukhi > bead is concerned, there is a general impression that these are > always made from 3 mukhi oval bead by sealing the other two clefts. > I am of the opinion that this is cent per cent not a correct > opinion. There may be fakes but definitely there are genuine beads > also in this type. Basically, I am a biotechnologist. I did my > M.Sc., Ph.D. in Botany and presently working as a senior scientist. > Rudraksha is my hobby and a research interest. I have mentioned my > opinion about internal anatomical structures after careful studies. > > In short, 1, 2, and 3 mukhi oval beads show similar anatomical > structures i.e. there is only one well developed locule and a seed, > other two locules are not developed and one can see rudimentary > structures of it. I am ready to send you the beads without any > charge, as it is for a scientific research purpose and to remove > > misunderstandings about the beads. However, I do not have any > idea about quarantine regulations in Australia. I am also ready to > send it to any body in India if you suggest. Kindly send your > postal address. > > > > As far as one mukhi round bead you have mentioned, I have very > few beads of this type. These beads are generally 10 to 14 mm. in > its diameter. I have only one bead which has a larger diam. ( > approx. 2 cms.). Colour of these beads is light yellowish brown to > reddish brown, very rarely it is sandy white. The ornamentation is > different from the normal rudrakshas. It is slightly angular > pentagonal to hexagonal (you can see hexagonal and pentagonal > structures on the bead instead of a granular structures). Stalk is > natural and intact. There is only one cleft. This cleft is > generally kept covered with the natural bluish black cover only in > the cleft portion. Cleft is well developed but does not have any > elevations in its margin (which is a main character of any cleft) > and is in the plane of the other bead tissue. Definitely it is not > a tampered bead by sealing the rest of the 4 clefts. However, if > peduncle or fruit stalk is removed, you can see a natural hole. > > Surrounding > > this natural opening one can see five very shallow groves of not > more than 1mm. in length. This is an indication that there may be 5 > locules inside the bead. I cut open only one bead so far, as it is > expensive. It shows poorly developed 5 locules. It is very > difficult to interprete these observations, as from the exterior it > is a definitely round one mukhi bead, however internally it has 5 > locules. > > From its external character, I can not call it as fake bead. In > this regard, I do agree with Chinmaya mission that no body really > knows what is the internal structure of a genuine 1mukhi and can not > critisise this bead. Logically, genuine 1 mukhi should have only > one locule and a seed. But with the experience of the oval 1,2 and > 3 mukhi as described earlier, it seems that one can not make any > definite conclusion or interpretation. Botanical matertial has > many times variations. > > > > Thanking you and with best wishes. > > > > Chandrashekhar Phadke > > > > > > > > > > syzenith <syzenith> wrote: Namaste Chandrashekhar, > > > > Thank you for your message. I will have to re-read this and form > my > > own humble conclusions eventually about internal or anatomical > > structures, locules, etc. Will post here after experimenting with > a > > few things, and only if there are successful results. > > > > An Oval One Mukhi, this is fascinating. Thanks for your kind offer > > to send it for my examination. How much is this particular bead > in > > US dollars? Its been a long time since I journeyed in Mother > India > > so my brain can't translate rupees very well sometimes. Shall > think > > about it and see..... If you send to me, then I will have to buy > it > > from you because I would only test by cutting it open. While most > > people do not want to keep cut-open beads, I believe the Shakti > > still exists in rudraksha even after they're cut. > > > > Shall also check with other verification places to see if they > will > > test without cutting open. If they can do this, then you can send > > them the bead. After that, they can return it to you safely. > > > > Please read my sentences slowly in previous messages. I didn't > talk > > about mukhis from 3 faces upwards being fakes. Nor did I > criticise > > about fakes. Was just putting info up for discussion, hoping that > > someone can point the light towards me if I'm wrong in my studies. > > > > Pretty sure I said along the lines of "from 12 mukhi upwards, duds > > are likely to be more abundant". > > > > I didn't say Oval shapes are not available, though I > mentioned "One > > Mukhi Round" is virtually extinct. > > > > Thanking yourself too, with good wishes. > > > > Om Namah Shivaya > > Sy > > > > , chandrashekhar > > phadake <c_phadake> wrote: > > > Dear Syzenith, > > > > > > I do not agree with you in connection with the internal > structures > > of oval 1, 2 and 3 mukhi beads. I have in my collection all the > > above three genuine types. External characters as far as no. of > > clefts are concerned are definitely 1, 2 and 3 clefts, and not by > > sealing 2 clefts living only one cleft in case of one mukhi. I > have > > critically observed this under a high resolution microscope and > also > > by boling in water, oil and by treating with nitrous oxide. If > you > > want I am ready to send 1 mukhi oval bead to you for its > > examination. > > > > I have also studied internal anatomical structures of all the > above > > three types of the beads. Surprisingly, it is same for 1, 2 and 3 > > mukhi beads. Only one developed locule with a well developed seed > > was observed in all the above beads. Two locules were in the > > rudimentory stage. I also checked botanical description for > this. > > It is mentioned that in case of ovary having less no. locules, > > rudimentory locules is a rule in case of few species. > > > > I also > > > checked the internal structures of a nepal 3 mukhi bead, it > shows > > 3 locules with 3 seeds inside it. > > > > I would like to know, in case of Indian beads (Haridwar oval beads > > from 1 to 3 mukhi) if its internal structure is same, whether > there > > is any difference in its spiritual or medicinal characters ? > > > > As you know, cost of genuine Haridwar 1 mukhi varies from Rs. > 2500/- > > to Rs. 5000/-, two mukhi of the similar type costs Rs. 200 and a > > three mukhi for Rs. 100/-. One mukhi authentic oval beads are > > definitely available and there is no point in always critising > that > > it is a necessarily fake bead from 3 mukhi. I am ready to send > you > > the sample if you want. > > > > > > Thanking you and with best wishes. > > > > > > Chandrashekhar Phadke. > > > > > > Sponsor > > To send an email to: - > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard > > > > > > > Sponsor > > To send an email to: - > > > > Terms of Service. > > India Mobile: Ringtones, Wallpapers, Picture Messages and more.Download now. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2003 Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 Dear Respected Chandrashekharji Thank you for this intense amount of practical Knowledge My Friend As always looking forward to your messages Dhanyavaad cha Pranams Mitra DharmaDev In a message dated 11/13/2003 9:25:10 AM Pacific Standard Time, chphadke writes: > Subj:Re: RBSC : 21 mukhi rough Nepal bead. > Date:11/13/2003 9:25:10 AM Pacific Standard Time > <A HREF="chphadke">chphadke</A> > Reply-to:<A HREF="">rudrakshabeadsocietiesc\ lub</A> > To:<A HREF="">rudrakshabeadsocietiesc\ lub</A> > Sent from the Internet > > > > Dear Syzenith, > > This in connection with 21 mukhi beads. Last year I showed 21 mukhi beads > to Mrs. Neetaji and Mr. Tanayji during their exibition at World Trade > Centre, Bombay. Both of them said that the beads are fake and are so called > 'Supari beads'. This was a challenge to my botanical knowledge. I cut the bead > and send enlarged coloured pictures of it to Mrs. Neetaji discussing the > anatomical structures of it. This includes placental tissue for nourishment of > seeds as a central core, axial placentation and 21 locules with 21 seeds (only > in 3 locules seeds were poorly developed). The bead was a 21 Mukhi Nepal bead > but of rough or coarse quality and not a Patthari type of bead. These beads > are much cheaper than Pathari type. In Haridwar you get rough genuine > higher mukhi beads in a cheaper rate. Unfortunately, these beads are criticised > as fake beads by people who do not have botanical knowledge. 'M/S. Kanhiyalal > Asolamal' is one of the famous 100 years old firm dealing with Rudraksha > and other holy items. The firm is also one of the supplier to the Rudra > Centre. This firm has written an informative book on Rudraksha in Hindi. In > this book there is mention about oval one mukhi and about rough quality (Hindi > term they have used is 'Khurdura' bead). If you cut these beads you can see > well developed locules and seeds inside it. Mrs. Neetaji was of the opinion > that possibly these are cut clefts and pasted again on a lack ball. I did > not accept this. Natural partion between any two locules is very thin and it > was impossible in the bead under study to have artisan's role. I suggested > Mrs. Neetaji, to show this to any classical botanist eiether in Nagpur or > Delhi University. She did not and is still firm on her views and I am on my > views. Fake beads made by cutting and pasteing of clefts look very unnatural. I > am personally of the opinion that these rough quality beads should be > popularsied for the benefit of the people who can not afford expensive higher > beads. I personally use rough quality 11 mukhi, 14 mukhi and 21 mukhi > beads. These beads do not look good but are definitely genuine. If any club > member has any doubt, he/she may contact the firm I mentioned and any reputed > botany department. Recognition of these beads will definitely bring down the > prices of Nepal Patthari beads. About Nepal 21 mukhi beads shown to Rudra > Centre and Mrs. Neetaji, I am writing seperately. > > Thanking you and with best wishes. > > Chandrashekhar Phadke > > syzenith <syzenith wrote: > Namaste Chandrashekhar, > > You are not going to like what I'm about to mention.. But please > know that I mean well for consumer protection and also to learn the > truth about genuine rudraksha. > > You can't see my face, eyes or my mouth. If you can, you will know > that all is said without ill feelings, and all is said with love to > everyone. You can kill me if you like :-) I've already died > before :-) > > Thank you for your message too. Yes generally, many Eka mukhi wre > made from 3 mukhi Oval. I cannot dispute your high qualifications > and profession. Congratulations for your great talent in your field > and reaching the position of senior scientist. But as a hobby and > research, there is much to learn about rudraksha for everyone, > everyday. > > I cannot agree regarding internal structures in the meantime. Your > anatomical studies do not convince me, not yet.. There are further > tests I need to do, then later discuss about it here. I'm not > saying you are wrong. Maybe I am the one who is wrong. But after > these tests, maybe we can agree about the truth. > > Thanking for rising to the occasion and offering out of your own > free will to send the beads at no charge. Don't worry about > Australian quarantine. They will scan the parcel, then open and > check contents, then blast it with Gamma rays before releasing > parcel for dispatch to me. Just write the words on the Customs > Declaration form : "Hindu Religous Beads". If you don't register > the parcel, it may get lost. > > But first, please read the rest of what I'm going to mention, then > decide if you still want to send the beads to Australia. > > What is the botanical species of the One Mukhi Round you have in > your possession? > > Again, it is my conviction that Eka Mukhi RounD is a legend, a myth > having a place in the Scriptures but not found to date in modern > times. > > Didn't you visit Miss Neeta to show your beads? Do you sell them? I > heard last month that you again went from Pune to show 2 pieces of > 21 mukhi at Rudra Centre. Then it was proved to you that these were > 10 mukhi and 11 mukhi cut by sharp knife to get extra lines. The 13 > and 14 mukhis previously shown by you were also lower mukhi beads > carved to high mukhi. > > The 3 mukhi Oval from Rudra Centre for US$1.50 each, has exactly the > same internal structure as the One mukhi Oval you had. Doesn't this > mean it was cut from 3 mukhi oval bead? > > Last year you also took a 21 mukhi to show Miss Neeta which was made > by gluing together 21 segments of lower mukhis. > > Tatt Twam Asi > Sy > > , chandrashekhar > phadake <c_phadake> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Syzenith, > > > > Thank you very much for your mail. I do agree that you have not > mentioned that above 3 mukhis are fake. As far as oval one mukhi > bead is concerned, there is a general impression that these are > always made from 3 mukhi oval bead by sealing the other two clefts. > I am of the opinion that this is cent per cent not a correct > opinion. There may be fakes but definitely there are genuine beads > also in this type. Basically, I am a biotechnologist. I did my > M.Sc., Ph.D. in Botany and presently working as a senior scientist. > Rudraksha is my hobby and a research interest. I have mentioned my > opinion about internal anatomical structures after careful studies. > > In short, 1, 2, and 3 mukhi oval beads show similar anatomical > structures i.e. there is only one well developed locule and a seed, > other two locules are not developed and one can see rudimentary > structures of it. I am ready to send you the beads without any > charge, as it is for a scientific research purpose and to remove > > misunderstandings about the beads. However, I do not have any > idea about quarantine regulations in Australia. I am also ready to > send it to any body in India if you suggest. Kindly send your > postal address. > > > > As far as one mukhi round bead you have mentioned, I have very > few beads of this type. These beads are generally 10 to 14 mm. in > its diameter. I have only one bead which has a larger diam. ( > approx. 2 cms.). Colour of these beads is light yellowish brown to > reddish brown, very rarely it is sandy white. The ornamentation is > different from the normal rudrakshas. It is slightly angular > pentagonal to hexagonal (you can see hexagonal and pentagonal > structures on the bead instead of a granular structures). Stalk is > natural and intact. There is only one cleft. This cleft is > generally kept covered with the natural bluish black cover only in > the cleft portion. Cleft is well developed but does not have any > elevations in its margin (which is a main character of any cleft) > and is in the plane of the other bead tissue. Definitely it is not > a tampered bead by sealing the rest of the 4 clefts. However, if > peduncle or fruit stalk is removed, you can see a natural hole. > > Surrounding > > this natural opening one can see five very shallow groves of not > more than 1mm. in length. This is an indication that there may be 5 > locules inside the bead. I cut open only one bead so far, as it is > expensive. It shows poorly developed 5 locules. It is very > difficult to interprete these observations, as from the exterior it > is a definitely round one mukhi bead, however internally it has 5 > locules. > > From its external character, I can not call it as fake bead. In > this regard, I do agree with Chinmaya mission that no body really > knows what is the internal structure of a genuine 1mukhi and can not > critisise this bead. Logically, genuine 1 mukhi should have only > one locule and a seed. But with the experience of the oval 1,2 and > 3 mukhi as described earlier, it seems that one can not make any > definite conclusion or interpretation. Botanical matertial has > many times variations. > > > > Thanking you and with best wishes. > > > > Chandrashekhar Phadke > > > > > > > > > > syzenith <syzenith> wrote: Namaste Chandrashekhar, > > > > Thank you for your message. I will have to re-read this and form > my > > own humble conclusions eventually about internal or anatomical > > structures, locules, etc. Will post here after experimenting with > a > > few things, and only if there are successful results. > > > > An Oval One Mukhi, this is fascinating. Thanks for your kind offer > > to send it for my examination. How much is this particular bead > in > > US dollars? Its been a long time since I journeyed in Mother > India > > so my brain can't translate rupees very well sometimes. Shall > think > > about it and see..... If you send to me, then I will have to buy > it > > from you because I would only test by cutting it open. While most > > people do not want to keep cut-open beads, I believe the Shakti > > still exists in rudraksha even after they're cut. > > > > Shall also check with other verification places to see if they > will > > test without cutting open. If they can do this, then you can send > > them the bead. After that, they can return it to you safely. > > > > Please read my sentences slowly in previous messages. I didn't > talk > > about mukhis from 3 faces upwards being fakes. Nor did I > criticise > > about fakes. Was just putting info up for discussion, hoping that > > someone can point the light towards me if I'm wrong in my studies. > > > > Pretty sure I said along the lines of "from 12 mukhi upwards, duds > > are likely to be more abundant". > > > > I didn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2003 Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 Dear Oleji Namaskar Mitra and thank you for your message......yes have been following the messages......on any public forum it is proper to allow people to say what they wish due to freedom of speech concerns however we only allow this freedom of speech up to a point...is difficult sometimes to determine if some are overstepping or it they are simply makeing innocent comments so we have to wait for awhile to see where the discussions are going For example Mr Chandrashekar is a seller of Rudraksha Beads although he normally wont tell people this......the personal business experience that he described that he had with Miss Neeta wasnt totally accurate........He brought his collection and the Beads that he sells to Miss Neeta at one of the Rudraksa Exhibitions in India and he has visited Rudra Center in Nagpur and in Mumbai at least once each.....he has great Botanical Knowledge and we recognize.....problem that took place was that some of the Beads he submitted to her for authentication were counterfiet beads and she would not purchase them.......he then took these beads and tried to sell to other people......the reason we know this is because he offered them to her Father.......he did not know at the time that he was offereing them to her Father and this was another adventure when this was found out although we have dropped the matter it seems Mr Chandrashekar needed to speak about this on the group site months later and with Suryaji also feeding the fire of misinformation in some specific areas something had to be done to bring balance back to the site due to the negativity that was building up We decided that Mr Chandreshekar would probably be Happier conducting business on his own I also understand that you have requested Miss Neeta to send you our special thread to restring your Nepal Mala because the Nepal thread has been good enough.....all I can say is thank you for showing us this.......recommended that it would probably be better for you to speak with your Nepal supplier who sent you the Mala as they will probably be most happy to help you Thanks and Take Care Mitra DharmaDev In a message dated 11/15/2003 9:38:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, alstrup writes: > Subj:Re: RBSC : 21 mukhi rough Nepal bead. > Date:11/15/2003 9:38:22 AM Pacific Standard Time > <A HREF="alstrup">alstrup</A> > Reply-to:<A HREF="">rudrakshabeadsocietiesc\ lub</A> > To:<A HREF="">rudrakshabeadsocietiesc\ lub</A> > Sent from the Internet > > > > Hello DD, > > > I am wondering...have you been following all the postings in the > latest few days...or what? > > We have been informed that Chandrashekarji has been expelled from > this group. Is this true? If so, who expelled him and why?! > > Looking forward to your reply, > > Ole > , > AumShiningLotus@a... wrote: > > Dear Respected Chandrashekharji > > > > Thank you for this intense amount of practical Knowledge My Friend > > > > As always looking forward to your messages > > > > Dhanyavaad cha Pranams Mitra > > > > DharmaDev > > > > In a message dated 11/13/2003 9:25:10 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > chphadke writes: > > > > > > > Subj:Re: RBSC : 21 mukhi rough Nepal bead. > > > Date:11/13/2003 9:25:10 AM Pacific Standard Time > > > <A HREF="chphadke">chphadke</A> > > > Reply-to:HREF=""> > rudrakshabea > dsocietiesclub > > > To:HREF="">rudrakshabea > dsocietiesclub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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