21 mukhi Nepal beads shown to Rudra Centre.

[Guest guest]

Dear Syzenith,

 

This is in connection with the two geuine and authentic 21 mukhi Nepal Patthari

beads shown to Mrs. Neetaji and Shri. Kamal Narayan Seethaji in Bombay and

Nagpur recently.

 

I have a strong objection for one of your sentence that 'These 21 mukhi beads

were proved to you as 11 and 13 mukhi beads after carving artificial lines'. I

do not accept that my beads are tampered beads and I am sending beautiful

coloured pictures of it for every member's information and studies. You can

enlarge these and study the beads yourself.

 

Recently, I could purchase beautiful two 21 mukhi Nepal Patthari beads from

North India. I contacted Mrs. Neetaji on mail with a intention to sell these

beads. After my last year's experience, it was a challenge to me to get

beautiful expensive 21 mukhi and with God's mercy I got three beads. The one

which is 21 Mukhi Ganesh, I have kept for myself and the rest of the two I

wanted to dispose off. I thought, Rudra Centre are the right people due to

thier large net work. Initially, I send scanned pictures and description of

beads to Mrs. Neetaji. She was satisfied with the pictures and appointment was

fixed to show these beads to her. I showed these beads to her at her residence

in Bombay. I always examine my beads under a high resoultion microscope and if

I am satisfied, I go further. Mrs. Neetaji was of the opinion that the beads

are made after nice carving of 12 mukhi beads. I did not accept it, as it shows

very good type of elevation on the margin of clefts. Carved

clefts do not have such elevations. I requested Neetaji, to check it

critically to see the elevated margins. She was firm on her views and

naturallly I was firm on my views. I also showed her two 12 mukhi beads on

which two additional lines were carved to make it 14 mukhi, to show the exact

difference. I do agree that she also has good experience in beads, but I also

do have. Surprisingly, she told me that if bead is carved, after few months

margins develop elevated structures. Rudraksha is a plant classified under

Angiosperms i.e. flowering plants. If fresh cones or plant material of a

Gymnospermous plant is cut sometimes it secretes rasin material. In Rudraksha

there is no chance to happen this. Of course I did not give this explanation to

her. I personally feel that Rudra Centre should purchase one good binocular

microscope with high resolution and study the beads more critically.

 

After this, I contacted Shri. Kamal Narayan Seethaji on mail and then had a

telephonic talk regarding 21 mukhi. I also told him about my visit to Mumbai

and discussions with his daughter Mrs. Neetaji. I showed him the two 21 mukhi

and few 13 and 14 mukhi beads. I got the same experience. However, Shri.

Seethaji told me that "See, Phadkeji, you are confident about your beads and

both of us have our own opinions.' He also took me to his residence to show

some beautiful rare beads, Rudraksha plants he planted. Business is a

different story. Every body has his own views. Yesterday only I talked to

him about Kailashpati plant. I have high regards for him and for his daughter

Mrs. Neetaji. However, I am of the opinion that there should not be any

rigidity in views. I never advertised my beads on club site as it is owned by

Rudra Centre. I also never mentioned any names, discussions etc. as it was all

personal. However, unfortunately, I had to give all details as the topic

was opened by you on club site with an intention to prove me and my beads as

fake. This attitude is not at all fare. Nepal Rudraksha beads of the Patthari

quality are definitelly rare but not that rare as it is claimed by Rudra Centre

and authorities of Rudra Centre. Similarly, Rudra Centre people are not the

only people who know about Rrudrakshas. There are 320 species under the genus

Elaeocarpus world wide. In India we get 30. There is tremendous variation in

bead morphology. Unfortunately, there is no description of fruit variation and

identification of species by fruit character.

 

I am ready to spare any of my 21 mukhi bead by cutting it. Any body who wants

to challenge any of my higher mukhi beads is requested to deposit the necessary

amount. I will cut the bead. If it is fake, the amount will be returned. If

it turn out to be a lower mukhi bead (12 and 13 mukhi as you say in case of 21

Mukhi), I will be at loss. Cost of my 21 mukhi is Rs. 5 lakhs each. 14 mukhi

Rs. 8000/- each, 13 mukhi : Rs. 3000/-.each.

 

I hope there would not be any bitterness on eiether side.

 

Thanking you and with best wishes.

 

Chandrashekhar Phadke

 

syzenith <syzenith wrote:

Namaste Chandrashekhar,

 

You are not going to like what I'm about to mention.. But please

know that I mean well for consumer protection and also to learn the

truth about genuine rudraksha.

 

You can't see my face, eyes or my mouth. If you can, you will know

that all is said without ill feelings, and all is said with love to

everyone. You can kill me if you like :-) I've already died

before :-)

 

Thank you for your message too. Yes generally, many Eka mukhi wre

made from 3 mukhi Oval. I cannot dispute your high qualifications

and profession. Congratulations for your great talent in your field

and reaching the position of senior scientist. But as a hobby and

research, there is much to learn about rudraksha for everyone,

everyday.

 

I cannot agree regarding internal structures in the meantime. Your

anatomical studies do not convince me, not yet.. There are further

tests I need to do, then later discuss about it here. I'm not

saying you are wrong. Maybe I am the one who is wrong. But after

these tests, maybe we can agree about the truth.

 

Thanking for rising to the occasion and offering out of your own

free will to send the beads at no charge. Don't worry about

Australian quarantine. They will scan the parcel, then open and

check contents, then blast it with Gamma rays before releasing

parcel for dispatch to me. Just write the words on the Customs

Declaration form : "Hindu Religous Beads". If you don't register

the parcel, it may get lost.

 

But first, please read the rest of what I'm going to mention, then

decide if you still want to send the beads to Australia.

 

What is the botanical species of the One Mukhi Round you have in

your possession?

 

Again, it is my conviction that Eka Mukhi RounD is a legend, a myth

having a place in the Scriptures but not found to date in modern

times.

 

Didn't you visit Miss Neeta to show your beads? Do you sell them? I

heard last month that you again went from Pune to show 2 pieces of

21 mukhi at Rudra Centre. Then it was proved to you that these were

10 mukhi and 11 mukhi cut by sharp knife to get extra lines. The 13

and 14 mukhis previously shown by you were also lower mukhi beads

carved to high mukhi.

 

The 3 mukhi Oval from Rudra Centre for US$1.50 each, has exactly the

same internal structure as the One mukhi Oval you had. Doesn't this

mean it was cut from 3 mukhi oval bead?

 

Last year you also took a 21 mukhi to show Miss Neeta which was made

by gluing together 21 segments of lower mukhis.

 

Tatt Twam Asi

Sy

 

, chandrashekhar

phadake <c_phadake> wrote:

>

>

> Dear Syzenith,

>

> Thank you very much for your mail. I do agree that you have not

mentioned that above 3 mukhis are fake. As far as oval one mukhi

bead is concerned, there is a general impression that these are

always made from 3 mukhi oval bead by sealing the other two clefts.

I am of the opinion that this is cent per cent not a correct

opinion. There may be fakes but definitely there are genuine beads

also in this type. Basically, I am a biotechnologist. I did my

M.Sc., Ph.D. in Botany and presently working as a senior scientist.

Rudraksha is my hobby and a research interest. I have mentioned my

opinion about internal anatomical structures after careful studies.

 

In short, 1, 2, and 3 mukhi oval beads show similar anatomical

structures i.e. there is only one well developed locule and a seed,

other two locules are not developed and one can see rudimentary

structures of it. I am ready to send you the beads without any

charge, as it is for a scientific research purpose and to remove

> misunderstandings about the beads. However, I do not have any

idea about quarantine regulations in Australia. I am also ready to

send it to any body in India if you suggest. Kindly send your

postal address.

>

> As far as one mukhi round bead you have mentioned, I have very

few beads of this type. These beads are generally 10 to 14 mm. in

its diameter. I have only one bead which has a larger diam. (

approx. 2 cms.). Colour of these beads is light yellowish brown to

reddish brown, very rarely it is sandy white. The ornamentation is

different from the normal rudrakshas. It is slightly angular

pentagonal to hexagonal (you can see hexagonal and pentagonal

structures on the bead instead of a granular structures). Stalk is

natural and intact. There is only one cleft. This cleft is

generally kept covered with the natural bluish black cover only in

the cleft portion. Cleft is well developed but does not have any

elevations in its margin (which is a main character of any cleft)

and is in the plane of the other bead tissue. Definitely it is not

a tampered bead by sealing the rest of the 4 clefts. However, if

peduncle or fruit stalk is removed, you can see a natural hole.

 

Surrounding

> this natural opening one can see five very shallow groves of not

more than 1mm. in length. This is an indication that there may be 5

locules inside the bead. I cut open only one bead so far, as it is

expensive. It shows poorly developed 5 locules. It is very

difficult to interprete these observations, as from the exterior it

is a definitely round one mukhi bead, however internally it has 5

locules.

 

>From its external character, I can not call it as fake bead. In

this regard, I do agree with Chinmaya mission that no body really

knows what is the internal structure of a genuine 1mukhi and can not

critisise this bead. Logically, genuine 1 mukhi should have only

one locule and a seed. But with the experience of the oval 1,2 and

3 mukhi as described earlier, it seems that one can not make any

definite conclusion or interpretation. Botanical matertial has

many times variations.

>

> Thanking you and with best wishes.

>

> Chandrashekhar Phadke

>

>

>

>

> syzenith <syzenith> wrote: Namaste Chandrashekhar,

>

> Thank you for your message. I will have to re-read this and form

my

> own humble conclusions eventually about internal or anatomical

> structures, locules, etc. Will post here after experimenting with

a

> few things, and only if there are successful results.

>

> An Oval One Mukhi, this is fascinating. Thanks for your kind offer

> to send it for my examination. How much is this particular bead

in

> US dollars? Its been a long time since I journeyed in Mother

India

> so my brain can't translate rupees very well sometimes. Shall

think

> about it and see..... If you send to me, then I will have to buy

it

> from you because I would only test by cutting it open. While most

> people do not want to keep cut-open beads, I believe the Shakti

> still exists in rudraksha even after they're cut.

>

> Shall also check with other verification places to see if they

will

> test without cutting open. If they can do this, then you can send

> them the bead. After that, they can return it to you safely.

>

> Please read my sentences slowly in previous messages. I didn't

talk

> about mukhis from 3 faces upwards being fakes. Nor did I

criticise

> about fakes. Was just putting info up for discussion, hoping that

> someone can point the light towards me if I'm wrong in my studies.

>

> Pretty sure I said along the lines of "from 12 mukhi upwards, duds

> are likely to be more abundant".

>

> I didn't say Oval shapes are not available, though I

mentioned "One

> Mukhi Round" is virtually extinct.

>

> Thanking yourself too, with good wishes.

>

> Om Namah Shivaya

> Sy

>

> , chandrashekhar

> phadake <c_phadake> wrote:

> > Dear Syzenith,

> >

> > I do not agree with you in connection with the internal

structures

> of oval 1, 2 and 3 mukhi beads. I have in my collection all the

> above three genuine types. External characters as far as no. of

> clefts are concerned are definitely 1, 2 and 3 clefts, and not by

> sealing 2 clefts living only one cleft in case of one mukhi. I

have

> critically observed this under a high resolution microscope and

also

> by boling in water, oil and by treating with nitrous oxide. If

you

> want I am ready to send 1 mukhi oval bead to you for its

> examination.

>

> I have also studied internal anatomical structures of all the

above

> three types of the beads. Surprisingly, it is same for 1, 2 and 3

> mukhi beads. Only one developed locule with a well developed seed

> was observed in all the above beads. Two locules were in the

> rudimentory stage. I also checked botanical description for

this.

> It is mentioned that in case of ovary having less no. locules,

> rudimentory locules is a rule in case of few species.

>

> I also

> > checked the internal structures of a nepal 3 mukhi bead, it

shows

> 3 locules with 3 seeds inside it.

>

> I would like to know, in case of Indian beads (Haridwar oval beads

> from 1 to 3 mukhi) if its internal structure is same, whether

there

> is any difference in its spiritual or medicinal characters ?

>

> As you know, cost of genuine Haridwar 1 mukhi varies from Rs.

2500/-

> to Rs. 5000/-, two mukhi of the similar type costs Rs. 200 and a

> three mukhi for Rs. 100/-. One mukhi authentic oval beads are

> definitely available and there is no point in always critising

that

> it is a necessarily fake bead from 3 mukhi. I am ready to send

you

> the sample if you want.

> >

> > Thanking you and with best wishes.

> >

> > Chandrashekhar Phadke.

>

>

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