Guest guest Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 Namaskaram Chandrashekhar, No, no, never any bitterness, if you know me personally as those people who can vouch I have lengthy discussions with them about things under the sun and then we all laugh and have chai or share a chillum every now and then. In the North, they used to bring big fat mangoes in season by the basketful (blissful..) and I used to bring stuff from Australia. In the South, they cook hot hot Madras curry, yummmmm! Please send the pictures if you wish. By the way, where was the picture of the "black color bead" mentioned? Good binocular microscope with high resolution is no problem. We are working towards establishing authentification using further scientific instruments and testing yet another particular method right now. Still testing..... Yes, everybody can have their views. The club site is owned by the Members more than anything else. No you never advertise your beads here, got to give credit for that. There is description of fruit variation and identification of species by fruit character, such as red color fruit, silver color, blue color etc. For example: Australian Quandong of the Eleocarpus grandis, Fig, etc. Only we have to go further into the studies but this takes time, not overnight. You are ready to spare your 21 mukhi rudraksha, to cut it yourself if someone puts a deposit with you. If somebody pays the deposit, the person will surely like the satisfaction of cutting it open himself or herself :-) Om Namah Shivaya Sy , chandrashekhar phadke <chphadke> wrote: > Dear Syzenith, > > This is in connection with the two geuine and authentic 21 mukhi Nepal Patthari beads shown to Mrs. Neetaji and Shri. Kamal Narayan Seethaji in Bombay and Nagpur recently. > > I have a strong objection for one of your sentence that 'These 21 mukhi beads were proved to you as 11 and 13 mukhi beads after carving artificial lines'. I do not accept that my beads are tampered beads and I am sending beautiful coloured pictures of it for every member's information and studies. You can enlarge these and study the beads yourself. > > Recently, I could purchase beautiful two 21 mukhi Nepal Patthari beads from North India. I contacted Mrs. Neetaji on mail with a intention to sell these beads. After my last year's experience, it was a challenge to me to get beautiful expensive 21 mukhi and with God's mercy I got three beads. The one which is 21 Mukhi Ganesh, I have kept for myself and the rest of the two I wanted to dispose off. I thought, Rudra Centre are the right people due to thier large net work. Initially, I send scanned pictures and description of beads to Mrs. Neetaji. She was satisfied with the pictures and appointment was fixed to show these beads to her. I showed these beads to her at her residence in Bombay. I always examine my beads under a high resoultion microscope and if I am satisfied, I go further. Mrs. Neetaji was of the opinion that the beads are made after nice carving of 12 mukhi beads. I did not accept it, as it shows very good type of elevation on the margin of clefts. Carved > clefts do not have such elevations. I requested Neetaji, to check it critically to see the elevated margins. She was firm on her views and naturallly I was firm on my views. I also showed her two 12 mukhi beads on which two additional lines were carved to make it 14 mukhi, to show the exact difference. I do agree that she also has good experience in beads, but I also do have. Surprisingly, she told me that if bead is carved, after few months margins develop elevated structures. Rudraksha is a plant classified under Angiosperms i.e. flowering plants. If fresh cones or plant material of a Gymnospermous plant is cut sometimes it secretes rasin material. In Rudraksha there is no chance to happen this. Of course I did not give this explanation to her. I personally feel that Rudra Centre should purchase one good binocular microscope with high resolution and study the beads more critically. > > After this, I contacted Shri. Kamal Narayan Seethaji on mail and then had a telephonic talk regarding 21 mukhi. I also told him about my visit to Mumbai and discussions with his daughter Mrs. Neetaji. I showed him the two 21 mukhi and few 13 and 14 mukhi beads. I got the same experience. However, Shri. Seethaji told me that "See, Phadkeji, you are confident about your beads and both of us have our own opinions.' He also took me to his residence to show some beautiful rare beads, Rudraksha plants he planted. Business is a different story. Every body has his own views. Yesterday only I talked to him about Kailashpati plant. I have high regards for him and for his daughter Mrs. Neetaji. However, I am of the opinion that there should not be any rigidity in views. I never advertised my beads on club site as it is owned by Rudra Centre. I also never mentioned any names, discussions etc. as it was all personal. However, unfortunately, I had to give all details as the topic > was opened by you on club site with an intention to prove me and my beads as fake. This attitude is not at all fare. Nepal Rudraksha beads of the Patthari quality are definitelly rare but not that rare as it is claimed by Rudra Centre and authorities of Rudra Centre. Similarly, Rudra Centre people are not the only people who know about Rrudrakshas. There are 320 species under the genus Elaeocarpus world wide. In India we get 30. There is tremendous variation in bead morphology. Unfortunately, there is no description of fruit variation and identification of species by fruit character. > > I am ready to spare any of my 21 mukhi bead by cutting it. Any body who wants to challenge any of my higher mukhi beads is requested to deposit the necessary amount. I will cut the bead. If it is fake, the amount will be returned. If it turn out to be a lower mukhi bead (12 and 13 mukhi as you say in case of 21 Mukhi), I will be at loss. Cost of my 21 mukhi is Rs. 5 lakhs each. 14 mukhi Rs. 8000/- each, 13 mukhi : Rs. 3000/-.each. > > I hope there would not be any bitterness on eiether side. > > Thanking you and with best wishes. > > Chandrashekhar Phadke > > syzenith <syzenith> wrote: > Namaste Chandrashekhar, > > You are not going to like what I'm about to mention.. But please > know that I mean well for consumer protection and also to learn the > truth about genuine rudraksha. > > You can't see my face, eyes or my mouth. If you can, you will know > that all is said without ill feelings, and all is said with love to > everyone. You can kill me if you like :-) I've already died > before :-) > > Thank you for your message too. Yes generally, many Eka mukhi wre > made from 3 mukhi Oval. I cannot dispute your high qualifications > and profession. Congratulations for your great talent in your field > and reaching the position of senior scientist. But as a hobby and > research, there is much to learn about rudraksha for everyone, > everyday. > > I cannot agree regarding internal structures in the meantime. Your > anatomical studies do not convince me, not yet.. There are further > tests I need to do, then later discuss about it here. I'm not > saying you are wrong. Maybe I am the one who is wrong. But after > these tests, maybe we can agree about the truth. > > Thanking for rising to the occasion and offering out of your own > free will to send the beads at no charge. Don't worry about > Australian quarantine. They will scan the parcel, then open and > check contents, then blast it with Gamma rays before releasing > parcel for dispatch to me. Just write the words on the Customs > Declaration form : "Hindu Religous Beads". If you don't register > the parcel, it may get lost. > > But first, please read the rest of what I'm going to mention, then > decide if you still want to send the beads to Australia. > > What is the botanical species of the One Mukhi Round you have in > your possession? > > Again, it is my conviction that Eka Mukhi RounD is a legend, a myth > having a place in the Scriptures but not found to date in modern > times. > > Didn't you visit Miss Neeta to show your beads? Do you sell them? I > heard last month that you again went from Pune to show 2 pieces of > 21 mukhi at Rudra Centre. Then it was proved to you that these were > 10 mukhi and 11 mukhi cut by sharp knife to get extra lines. The 13 > and 14 mukhis previously shown by you were also lower mukhi beads > carved to high mukhi. > > The 3 mukhi Oval from Rudra Centre for US$1.50 each, has exactly the > same internal structure as the One mukhi Oval you had. Doesn't this > mean it was cut from 3 mukhi oval bead? > > Last year you also took a 21 mukhi to show Miss Neeta which was made > by gluing together 21 segments of lower mukhis. > > Tatt Twam Asi > Sy > > , chandrashekhar > phadake <c_phadake> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Syzenith, > > > > Thank you very much for your mail. I do agree that you have not > mentioned that above 3 mukhis are fake. As far as oval one mukhi > bead is concerned, there is a general impression that these are > always made from 3 mukhi oval bead by sealing the other two clefts. > I am of the opinion that this is cent per cent not a correct > opinion. There may be fakes but definitely there are genuine beads > also in this type. Basically, I am a biotechnologist. I did my > M.Sc., Ph.D. in Botany and presently working as a senior scientist. > Rudraksha is my hobby and a research interest. I have mentioned my > opinion about internal anatomical structures after careful studies. > > In short, 1, 2, and 3 mukhi oval beads show similar anatomical > structures i.e. there is only one well developed locule and a seed, > other two locules are not developed and one can see rudimentary > structures of it. I am ready to send you the beads without any > charge, as it is for a scientific research purpose and to remove > > misunderstandings about the beads. However, I do not have any > idea about quarantine regulations in Australia. I am also ready to > send it to any body in India if you suggest. Kindly send your > postal address. > > > > As far as one mukhi round bead you have mentioned, I have very > few beads of this type. These beads are generally 10 to 14 mm. in > its diameter. I have only one bead which has a larger diam. ( > approx. 2 cms.). Colour of these beads is light yellowish brown to > reddish brown, very rarely it is sandy white. The ornamentation is > different from the normal rudrakshas. It is slightly angular > pentagonal to hexagonal (you can see hexagonal and pentagonal > structures on the bead instead of a granular structures). Stalk is > natural and intact. There is only one cleft. This cleft is > generally kept covered with the natural bluish black cover only in > the cleft portion. Cleft is well developed but does not have any > elevations in its margin (which is a main character of any cleft) > and is in the plane of the other bead tissue. Definitely it is not > a tampered bead by sealing the rest of the 4 clefts. However, if > peduncle or fruit stalk is removed, you can see a natural hole. > > Surrounding > > this natural opening one can see five very shallow groves of not > more than 1mm. in length. This is an indication that there may be 5 > locules inside the bead. I cut open only one bead so far, as it is > expensive. It shows poorly developed 5 locules. It is very > difficult to interprete these observations, as from the exterior it > is a definitely round one mukhi bead, however internally it has 5 > locules. > > From its external character, I can not call it as fake bead. In > this regard, I do agree with Chinmaya mission that no body really > knows what is the internal structure of a genuine 1mukhi and can not > critisise this bead. Logically, genuine 1 mukhi should have only > one locule and a seed. But with the experience of the oval 1,2 and > 3 mukhi as described earlier, it seems that one can not make any > definite conclusion or interpretation. Botanical matertial has > many times variations. > > > > Thanking you and with best wishes. > > > > Chandrashekhar Phadke > > > > > > > > > > syzenith <syzenith> wrote: Namaste Chandrashekhar, > > > > Thank you for your message. I will have to re-read this and form > my > > own humble conclusions eventually about internal or anatomical > > structures, locules, etc. Will post here after experimenting with > a > > few things, and only if there are successful results. > > > > An Oval One Mukhi, this is fascinating. Thanks for your kind offer > > to send it for my examination. How much is this particular bead > in > > US dollars? Its been a long time since I journeyed in Mother > India > > so my brain can't translate rupees very well sometimes. Shall > think > > about it and see..... If you send to me, then I will have to buy > it > > from you because I would only test by cutting it open. While most > > people do not want to keep cut-open beads, I believe the Shakti > > still exists in rudraksha even after they're cut. > > > > Shall also check with other verification places to see if they > will > > test without cutting open. If they can do this, then you can send > > them the bead. After that, they can return it to you safely. > > > > Please read my sentences slowly in previous messages. I didn't > talk > > about mukhis from 3 faces upwards being fakes. Nor did I > criticise > > about fakes. Was just putting info up for discussion, hoping that > > someone can point the light towards me if I'm wrong in my studies. > > > > Pretty sure I said along the lines of "from 12 mukhi upwards, duds > > are likely to be more abundant". > > > > I didn't say Oval shapes are not available, though I > mentioned "One > > Mukhi Round" is virtually extinct. > > > > Thanking yourself too, with good wishes. > > > > Om Namah Shivaya > > Sy > > > > , chandrashekhar > > phadake <c_phadake> wrote: > > > Dear Syzenith, > > > > > > I do not agree with you in connection with the internal > structures > > of oval 1, 2 and 3 mukhi beads. I have in my collection all the > > above three genuine types. External characters as far as no. of > > clefts are concerned are definitely 1, 2 and 3 clefts, and not by > > sealing 2 clefts living only one cleft in case of one mukhi. I > have > > critically observed this under a high resolution microscope and > also > > by boling in water, oil and by treating with nitrous oxide. If > you > > want I am ready to send 1 mukhi oval bead to you for its > > examination. > > > > I have also studied internal anatomical structures of all the > above > > three types of the beads. Surprisingly, it is same for 1, 2 and 3 > > mukhi beads. Only one developed locule with a well developed seed > > was observed in all the above beads. Two locules were in the > > rudimentory stage. I also checked botanical description for > this. > > It is mentioned that in case of ovary having less no. locules, > > rudimentory locules is a rule in case of few species. > > > > I also > > > checked the internal structures of a nepal 3 mukhi bead, it > shows > > 3 locules with 3 seeds inside it. > > > > I would like to know, in case of Indian beads (Haridwar oval beads > > from 1 to 3 mukhi) if its internal structure is same, whether > there > > is any difference in its spiritual or medicinal characters ? > > > > As you know, cost of genuine Haridwar 1 mukhi varies from Rs. > 2500/- > > to Rs. 5000/-, two mukhi of the similar type costs Rs. 200 and a > > three mukhi for Rs. 100/-. One mukhi authentic oval beads are > > definitely available and there is no point in always critising > that > > it is a necessarily fake bead from 3 mukhi. I am ready to send > you > > the sample if you want. > > > > > > Thanking you and with best wishes. > > > > > > Chandrashekhar Phadke. > > > > > > Sponsor > > To send an email to: - > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard > > > > > > > Sponsor > > To send an email to: - > > > > Terms of Service. > > India Mobile: Ringtones, Wallpapers, Picture Messages and more.Download now. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.