Regarding past lives and rebirth: What about in between them?

[Guest guest]

Hari OM

~~~~~~~

Namaste frederico

 

 

It would be interesting to hear if you recall and 'pauses' between

lifes. yes, we are destined to return, yet do you recall any

stopping places?

Its said there are 7 worlds ( lokas) above) and 7 loka's below.

Can you recall a time?

 

ALso in Jyotish there are methods available to suggest how long

one's spirit may stay around the earth plane , from months to years.

 

This would be interesting... of course I wish us all for the time

for Mahasahmadhi and no return, though HIS grace.

 

pranams,

yajvan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

advaitin, "atmadarshanam" <fsgss> wrote:

>

>   Namaste sadhakas,

>

>    I have posted this reply on a thread about past lives in the

> orkut community advaita vedanta and I think it could be beneficial

> if I copied it here. It is a short summary of my experience with

> recalling past births and my Guru´s and my opinions about rebirth.

>

> 29/04/2006 21:14

> I remembered past lives clearly through hypnotheraphy. It was

> literally like remembering where I had put something which I had

> forgotten, you know, when the memory comes back "oh I put that

stuff

> there", it rings the bell, you know it is true.

> I saw things which I really disliked, but had to be seen, such as

> the death of my ex-wife and my suicide shortly afterwards in my

last

> life in England. Remembered also an amazing life as a Hun

barbarian,

> very confident tribe-leader, very strong confident man... did a

lot

> of mistakes like raping women pillaging cities etc until was

hanged

> and died... and many other lives including a less turbulent one in

> northern India as a devotee.

> Nevertheless my Guru tells me: "this is valid in RELATIVE level".

> Past lives, such as present life, have no ABSOLUTE reality. The

> Absolute is something that we must find out within ourselves so to

> speak. Clinging to a notion of immortality of soul can be

> detrimental, since if one is always reborn, why do anything? Just

> lay back and enjoy life. But this is detrimental, causes

misfortune

> in future lives so it´s important not to cling to immortality.

> Furthermore the personalities of my past lives had some

resemblance

> with the current one but were different because conditioned by

> different means, parents, education etc. in many ways. So a fresh

> start, a new life, is a most precious jewel so the focus must be

on

> the present life and not in past lives. But of course past lives

are

> real in the relative sense, like the world is real and I am real.

> As to the increase in population there is no contradiction.

Animals

> have been eliminated all over the globe in the past century. Many

of

> them are now having opportunity of life as human. Other

possibility

> is that a jiva from another planet is born on Earth for first

time,

> I believe this is also happening.

>

>      best regards,

>      frederico

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman.

Advaitin Homepage at: Terms of Service.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

   Namaste Yajvan,

 

  This is a delicated matter which I usually do not speak to anyone.

I am just writing it in orkut and here because I know that I can do

this safely but I do not like to talk about it to anyone and even

writing, I advise the readers to ponder and not accept what they

read as the truth as it might influence their post-mortem

experiences. It is like describing what is music to someone who

never heard it. It might make the person have a *bias* and affect

negatively, positively or neutrally the experience of the person. So

what is written above please do not accept as truth.

  In MY particular experience I have noticed that there are lokas or

planets (and I think they are more likely to be STARS) where there

is a possibility of staying and enjoying a high level of pleasurable

consciousness after death. It occured specifically in one of my

deaths that I was able to go to what we call one of the Pleiades

stars and stay there. The consciousness there is though, completely

different from anything on Earth. If you can imagine beautiful

landscapes, incredible smells and so on, up to delightful ecstatic

states of consciousness then you can get the idea of what it is

like. But there is no body and no other bodies, I remembered it as

being in an ocean where there were only pleasurable stimulus. The

notion of "i" and "others" also completely absent there, only

a "refined" experience. No dialog and communication only through

pleasurable stimulus, like sound and colour and scent but no notion

of individual existence. But even this remembrance is affected, my

Guru tells me, by my current brain-apparatus. So probably it was

somewhat different from that and my brain apparatus interpreted it

as colour, sound and pleasurable stimulus because it is the closer

it can get to it. So I really believe in the existence of more

sacred locals where one´s consciousness can go to after death.

  Nevertheless I also noticed that sudden deaths are often followed

by what can be described as unconsciousness and immediate or almost

immediate rebirth. This was the case when I shot myself in the head

in 1981 and was reborn almost immediately. At the moment of the

shooting I remember hearing a loud sound (the sound of the gun) for

a split-second and falling unconscious (it all turns black then).

Then there is no remembrance until my consciousness entering my

mother´s womb when my parents had sex. I also remember the very bad

experiencing of going out of my mother. Very uncomfortable

experience. Then I understood why all babies are born crying. I

really do not know how much time passed from my last death until my

rebirth but from what I remembers it was at most, some months

because my wife died in 1980 and I got into a severe depression

which could not have lasted more than perhaps 8 months at most until

I shot myself in the head.

   Namaste,

   Frederico

 

 

 

advaitin, "yajvan" <agnimile> wrote:

>

> Hari OM

> ~~~~~~~

> Namaste frederico

>

>

> It would be interesting to hear if you recall and 'pauses' between

> lifes. yes, we are destined to return, yet do you recall any

> stopping places?

> Its said there are 7 worlds ( lokas) above) and 7 loka's below.

> Can you recall a time?

>

> ALso in Jyotish there are methods available to suggest how long

> one's spirit may stay around the earth plane , from months to

years.

>

> This would be interesting... of course I wish us all for the time

> for Mahasahmadhi and no return, though HIS grace.

>

> pranams,

> yajvan

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> advaitin, "atmadarshanam" <fsgss@> wrote:

> >

> >   Namaste sadhakas,

> >

> >    I have posted this reply on a thread about past lives in the

> > orkut community advaita vedanta and I think it could be

beneficial

> > if I copied it here. It is a short summary of my experience with

> > recalling past births and my Guru´s and my opinions about

rebirth.

> >

> > 29/04/2006 21:14

> > I remembered past lives clearly through hypnotheraphy. It was

> > literally like remembering where I had put something which I had

> > forgotten, you know, when the memory comes back "oh I put that

> stuff

> > there", it rings the bell, you know it is true.

> > I saw things which I really disliked, but had to be seen, such

as

> > the death of my ex-wife and my suicide shortly afterwards in my

> last

> > life in England. Remembered also an amazing life as a Hun

> barbarian,

> > very confident tribe-leader, very strong confident man... did a

> lot

> > of mistakes like raping women pillaging cities etc until was

> hanged

> > and died... and many other lives including a less turbulent one

in

> > northern India as a devotee.

> > Nevertheless my Guru tells me: "this is valid in RELATIVE

level".

> > Past lives, such as present life, have no ABSOLUTE reality. The

> > Absolute is something that we must find out within ourselves so

to

> > speak. Clinging to a notion of immortality of soul can be

> > detrimental, since if one is always reborn, why do anything?

Just

> > lay back and enjoy life. But this is detrimental, causes

> misfortune

> > in future lives so it´s important not to cling to immortality.

> > Furthermore the personalities of my past lives had some

> resemblance

> > with the current one but were different because conditioned by

> > different means, parents, education etc. in many ways. So a

fresh

> > start, a new life, is a most precious jewel so the focus must be

> on

> > the present life and not in past lives. But of course past lives

> are

> > real in the relative sense, like the world is real and I am real.

> > As to the increase in population there is no contradiction.

> Animals

> > have been eliminated all over the globe in the past century.

Many

> of

> > them are now having opportunity of life as human. Other

> possibility

> > is that a jiva from another planet is born on Earth for first

> time,

> > I believe this is also happening.

> >

> >      best regards,

> >      frederico

> >

>

 

 

 

 

 

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman.

Advaitin Homepage at: Terms of Service.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

yajvan <agnimile (AT) cox (DOT) net> wrote:    Hari OM

~~~~~~~

Namaste frederico

It would be interesting to hear if you recall and 'pauses' between

lifes. yes, we are destined to return, yet do you recall any

stopping places?

Its said there are 7 worlds ( lokas) above) and 7 loka's below.

Can you recall a time?

                  Dear friends,

                                       Trying to know the past lives is tantamount to analysing the dream contents, having been falsified in the waking state. It is only a perpetuation of our personal ego, declared to be an error and illusion by the sages, which we also understand to be true in the process of self-enquiry. All the worlds are mind-begotten illusions fit to be removed by the enquiry, 'Who am I,' Only the state of total voidance of thoughts, is fit to be enquired into, and not these illusions. Even if we recalled our past existence, that it would be recognized to be one of the sojourn of another psychosomatic being, not different from the present one. People are being misguided through seance, medium etc. This type of enquiry will be even harmful to the manes by virtue of our recalling them preventing them from shedding the earlier memories. Previous lives constitute only an undigested matter fit to be discarded, and not pursued after. We should try to

understand only the Self which is beyond time, space, and causation, the one and only purpose for our earthly embodiment.

with warm regards,

Sankarraman

 

           

 

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[Guest guest]

 

atmadarshanam <fsgss (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:      

Dear sir,

              All experiences whether pertaining to this life, or the previous ones. or those of dreams, or visions, and finally extrasensory perceptions-all these are fit to be forgotten in our pursuit to understand the Self. They don't have anything to  do with understanding our real nature, but are harmful exercises.

with warm regards,

Sankarraman

 

                 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hari Om

~~~~~~~

 

Namaste  frederico,

 

If you care to read about the path one takes after dropping the

body, the Kathopanishad does this nicely.  the conversation between

Yama and Nachiketas ( a name that means one who is not aware of the

depth of the question he poses).  Also the Mundakopanishad  and

other Upanishads discuss the Suryadvarena or northern path (

Uttarayaana) after death, the path of light ( that of the sun);  and

the southern path Dadkhinayana, also called dhuma-marga or path of

smoke, that of the moon.

 

That said, the most in depth conversation I can recommend is 

discussed in the Chhandogya Upanishad , Panchagni-vidya. A wonderful

discourse between the son of a sage Uddalaka named Svetaketu

and the king Pravahana Jaivali ( a Kshatriya).

 

The king asks the sisya, are you well educated? The sisya answers

yes my education is over and I am well read.  The king asks, 'do you

know where people go after they depart from this world?'  The sisya

says I do not know.  The king asks ' do you know wherefrom people

come when they are reborn into this world?'.  To this the sisya said

I cannot answer this question.  He poses several other profound

questions to Svetaketu ( which means sweta or pure , and ketu

knowledge born of inner understanding) - in which he cannot answer.

 

>From this ,  profound knowledge comes out on how this whole universe

is connected and ubiquitous. What happens after the span of life is

competed for the body, the path the jiva/atman takes, where it

goes , how it returns, etc. Very profound knowledge and worth

reading. Let me suggest a site for your consideration.

Terms of Service.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hari Om

~~~~~~~~

 

Namaste Sankarraman,

 

you speak wisely... for most,  the notion of a loka is that of

movies and fantasy.  From time to time we find a soul that remembers

a glimpse or two and may share it.  To desire and yearn for this,

only brings more ignorance. Yet to recognize that in this vast

universe there is order on multiple levels is a lesson that is

presented.  These higher levels as I understand it ( as my knowledge

is flawed, not having direct experience) is of consciousness. 

 

Yet, for the person than has this experience, he/she remembers not

from a fanciful wish, but from greater purity that is getting

established within.

One can then look at this as a sign post or indicator.  Just as

achieving siddhi's.  If one gets caught in it, a new layer of

ignorance is added to the sadhu.

 

Let us all gain samrasada, or composure of consciousness that we can

determine the lessons that are given.

 

Idam brahma, idam kshatram, ime lokah, ime devah, imani bhutani,

idam sarvam yad ayam atma.

"This Source of knowledge; this source of power; all these worlds;

all these gods; all these beings; -- All this is just the Self."

Maharshi  Yajnavalka,  Brihadaranayka Upanishad

 

Pranams,

yajvan

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Sankarraman,

 

You wrote:

"All experiences whether pertaining to this life, or the previous ones. or those of dreams, or visions, and finally extrasensory perceptions-all these are fit to be forgotten in our pursuit to understand the Self. They don't have anything to  do with understanding our real nature, but are harmful exercises."

 

This was very wise of you. I would agree wholeheartedly with you on this. Probably because it echoes the spirit of detachment to past lives and mental formations in it. sabbe sankhArA aniccA iti, yadA pannAya paSSati, atha nibbandati dukkhe, eSha maggo viSuddhiya. [savre samskArAh anityAh iti, yadA prajnayA paSyati, tathA nirvaNyati dukkhebhyo, eSha mArgo viSuddhih - in Sanskrit]

 

A person on the path to enlightenment can learn of his previous lifetimes, but does not cling to any of them. Although I donot wish to present any contradictions to anybody's statements, according to Buddhist scripture the description of rebirth is rather wonderous. I wonder if it is appropriate to mention it here, given the nature of the subject. Rebirth in Vedantic parlance is assumed to be a transcendental phenomenon, but in Buddhism it is a worldy phenomenon. Please donot take offense to this or take it as an opposing arguement. People's own experiences may differ, but the ground rule still remains the same. Irrespective of the experience, all sAmsAric experiences are impermanent. None of them is worth clinging.

 

According to the Buddha, rebirth is a process that takes place when the chitta (mental phenomena responsible for the sustenance of life) are using rupa (material phenomena responsible for the sustenance of life) as fuel. He draws an analogy of a flame burning using the fuel of oil. As long as the fule lasts, the flame burns. The flame extinguishes once the fuel is stopped.

 

At the time of death, the fuel (material phenomena like the body) is incapable of supporting the chitta. Hence the end of life. But due to clinging, the chitta instantaneously 'burns' [used symbolically] on yet another body available as fuel till the time that body shall last. What is this chitta? It consists of perceptions, feelings, mental fabrications of past and present life (basically memory and karmic fermentations) and finally consciousness. These 'effluents' [symbolic] 'assume' [symbolic] another 'fuel' [symbolic] and it is these 'effluents' that really take birth. In Buddhism, the tathagata does not take birth. Even in mahayana Buddhism, where the tathagatagarbha is like the Atman of the Upanishads, it does not take birth. It is only these 'effluents' that take birth. [i think even in Vedanta the Atman does not take birth, since there is no birth or death for the Atman. Please correct me if I am wrong]

 

The process of leaving one mass of 'fuel' and 'assuming' another mass of 'fuel' is almost instantaneous. The time it actually takes is about the time in which the body changes. [The body is known to be in a constant state of flux and change. According to an estimattion in the Pali Canon the eye blinks 40 times in a second and the body changes almost 'aneka koti koti koti sahassa sahassa sahassa' times. This would amount to almost 1 followed by 64 zeroes. Although in my opinion this estimate is only a number which is very large and perhaps the actual is much more than this.] Within that time, the chitta assumes another rupa (body).

 

Again Buddhism does not restrict the kind of body that the chitta assumes to one that we have known. It clarifies that the chitta may assume bodies in other lokas or realms such as heaven, realm of Brahma, Pajapati [Prajapati], Indra, etc. The individual lives there just like other beings on earth and depending on his kamma there, he returns to the realm of humans or gets enlightened. According to Buddhism, there are seven realms above the human realm and seven below the human realm. An individual may be reborn in any of these realms depending on his kamma.

 

Now comes a question: 'What carries the chitta to another rupa?' In other words, what carries the 'flame' to another 'fuel'? In the Pali Canon the Buddha answers this question using an analogy. Just like a forest fire spreads on the basis of wind, and wind is said to be the sustenance of fire (In other words, wind 'carries' the fire from one fuel to another), the sustenance of the individual after death is craving or clinging (the chittas are "carried" to another rupa due to craving or clinging).

 

Now to this explanation, the monk has a further question: 'Does a tathagata have craving?' The Buddha answers in the negative. Now he asks a further question: 'Then after the tathagata's death does he get annihilated as the flame gets extinguished upon the complete consumption of all the fuel?'

 

This is a famous question as it shows the misunderstanding of most people. The usual understanding is that Buddhist Nirvana is like 'extinguishing' and hence it is similar to annihilation. Accordingly most people misunderstand and think that Buddhism teaches annihilation of the individual 'self'. They forget that the notion of self in Buddhism means something else.

 

At the same time, they misrepresent the Buddha because they donot pay enough attention to the words of the Buddha. Several times in the Canon, it is repeated by the Buddha, Mahakassapa, Sariputta, and many more buddhas that after the death of the tathagata, nothing at all can be said about his existence, non-existence, both or neither. He is simply beyond all description and has simply cut through the viel of ignorance and has gone beyond all suffering. One cannot say that the tathagata is annihilated, or that he persists or that he is both or neither of these. Why? The Buddha draws an analogy. He asks, if a flame is extinguished due to the complete combustion of all its fuel, would it be appropriate to ask if it went North, South, East or West? The monk's answer is negative. Exactly in the same way, none of the statements, exists, does not exist, both exists and does not exist, or neither exists nor does not exist would apply to the tathagata after death.

 

Then what is annihilated? Why the term nirvana, which literally means extinguishing? It is the extinguishing of the fire of passion or desire. That is what gets annihilated at the death of a tathagata.

 

>From the Buddha's explanation it is clear that all experience is not for the tathagata, who is detached from the world. It is only for the mind-body complex (five aggregates), that we incorrectly consider as self.

 

Finally, I shall conclude this email with: 'sabbe dhammA anattA iti, yadA pannAya paSSati, atha nibbandati dukkhe, eSha maggo viSuddhiya'. All phenomena [including Nibbana] and experiences should not be called 'mine', 'me', 'my self'. One who knows this through directly wisdom is freed of all suffering. This is the path of self-transformation.

 

-Bhikku Yogi

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

  Dear Sankarraman,

 

    I understand your point. Self-realization is of course the most

important thing we must pursue. But knowing that one is reborn and

loosing fear of death strengthens shraddha and is therefore to be

cultivated by any bhakta as it strenghthens his shraddha.

    Nevertheless as you pointed out only the fourth state is to be

aimed at. Everything else including past lives, dreams, etc, can be

used as a medium to reach this fourth state of turiya.

    Namaskar,

    frederico

 

 

 

 

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman.

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[Guest guest]

  Namaste Yajvan,

 

     Thanks a lot for the referenced link. I shall read and comment

if possible.

     Namaskar,

     frederico

 

 

advaitin, "yajvan" <agnimile> wrote:

>

> Hari Om

> ~~~~~~~

>

> Namaste  frederico,

>

> If you care to read about the path one takes after dropping the

> body, the Kathopanishad does this nicely.  the conversation

between

> Yama and Nachiketas ( a name that means one who is not aware of

the

> depth of the question he poses).  Also the Mundakopanishad  and

> other Upanishads discuss the Suryadvarena or northern path (

> Uttarayaana) after death, the path of light ( that of the sun); 

and

> the southern path Dadkhinayana, also called dhuma-marga or path of

> smoke, that of the moon.

>

> That said, the most in depth conversation I can recommend is 

> discussed in the Chhandogya Upanishad , Panchagni-vidya. A

wonderful

> discourse between the son of a sage Uddalaka named Svetaketu

> and the king Pravahana Jaivali ( a Kshatriya).

>

> The king asks the sisya, are you well educated? The sisya answers

> yes my education is over and I am well read.  The king asks, 'do

you

> know where people go after they depart from this world?'  The

sisya

> says I do not know.  The king asks ' do you know wherefrom people

> come when they are reborn into this world?'.  To this the sisya

said

> I cannot answer this question.  He poses several other profound

> questions to Svetaketu ( which means sweta or pure , and ketu

> knowledge born of inner understanding) - in which he cannot answer.

>

> From this ,  profound knowledge comes out on how this whole

universe

> is connected and ubiquitous. What happens after the span of life

is

> competed for the body, the path the jiva/atman takes, where it

> goes , how it returns, etc. Very profound knowledge and worth

> reading. Let me suggest a site for your consideration.

> Terms of Service.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

  Namaste Bikkhu Yogi,

 

    What a wonderful piece of commentaries. Very appropriate. Thanks

for posting. I think this is your first posting to this list that I

fully understand (no offence intended, seriously).

    Thanks for remaining sharing wisdom with us on the list.

    Namaste,

    fred

 

 

advaitin, Yogendra Bhikku <bhikkuyogi>

wrote:

>

> Dear Sri Sankarraman,

>

>> A person on the path to enlightenment can learn of his previous

lifetimes, but does not cling to any of them. Although I donot wish

to present any contradictions to anybody's statements, according to

Buddhist scripture the description of rebirth is rather wonderous. I

wonder if it is appropriate to mention it here, given the nature of

the subject. >

> According to the Buddha, rebirth is a process that takes place

when the chitta (mental phenomena responsible for the sustenance of

life) are using rupa (material phenomena responsible for the

sustenance of life) as fuel. He draws an analogy of a flame burning

using the fuel of oil. As long as the fule lasts, the flame burns.

The flame extinguishes once the fuel is stopped.

>

> At the time of death, the fuel (material phenomena like the body)

is incapable of supporting the chitta. Hence the end of life. But

due to clinging, the chitta instantaneously 'burns' [used

symbolically] on yet another body available as fuel till the time

that body shall last. What is this chitta? It consists of

perceptions, feelings, mental fabrications of past and present life

(basically memory and karmic fermentations) and finally

consciousness. These 'effluents' [symbolic] 'assume' [symbolic]

another 'fuel' [symbolic] and it is these 'effluents' that really

take birth. In Buddhism, the tathagata does not take birth. Even in

mahayana Buddhism, where the tathagatagarbha is like the Atman of

the Upanishads, it does not take birth. It is only these 'effluents'

that take birth. [i think even in Vedanta the Atman does not take

birth, since there is no birth or death for the Atman. Please

correct me if I am wrong]

>

> The process of leaving one mass of 'fuel' and 'assuming' another

mass of 'fuel' is almost instantaneous. The time it actually takes

is about the time in which the body changes. [The body is known to

be in a constant state of flux and change. According to an

estimattion in the Pali Canon the eye blinks 40 times in a second

and the body changes almost 'aneka koti koti koti sahassa sahassa

sahassa' times. This would amount to almost 1 followed by 64 zeroes.

Although in my opinion this estimate is only a number which is very

large and perhaps the actual is much more than this.] Within that

time, the chitta assumes another rupa (body).

>

> Again Buddhism does not restrict the kind of body that the chitta

assumes to one that we have known. It clarifies that the chitta may

assume bodies in other lokas or realms such as heaven, realm of

Brahma, Pajapati [Prajapati], Indra, etc. The individual lives there

just like other beings on earth and depending on his kamma there, he

returns to the realm of humans or gets enlightened. According to

Buddhism, there are seven realms above the human realm and seven

below the human realm. An individual may be reborn in any of these

realms depending on his kamma.

>

> Now comes a question: 'What carries the chitta to another rupa?'

In other words, what carries the 'flame' to another 'fuel'? In the

Pali Canon the Buddha answers this question using an analogy. Just

like a forest fire spreads on the basis of wind, and wind is said to

be the sustenance of fire (In other words, wind 'carries' the fire

from one fuel to another), the sustenance of the individual after

death is craving or clinging (the chittas are "carried" to another

rupa due to craving or clinging).

>

> Now to this explanation, the monk has a further question: 'Does a

tathagata have craving?' The Buddha answers in the negative. Now he

asks a further question: 'Then after the tathagata's death does he

get annihilated as the flame gets extinguished upon the complete

consumption of all the fuel?'

>

> This is a famous question as it shows the misunderstanding of most

people. The usual understanding is that Buddhist Nirvana is

like 'extinguishing' and hence it is similar to annihilation.

Accordingly most people misunderstand and think that Buddhism

teaches annihilation of the individual 'self'. They forget that the

notion of self in Buddhism means something else.

>

 

 

 

 

 

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman.

Advaitin Homepage at: Terms of Service.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

  Namaste Mani,

 

    Thank you for the clarification. The 4th is, then, the

substratum.

    PraNam´s,

    frederico

 

>     Namaskar,

>     frederico

>   

>   Namaste,

>   Pardon me for my intrusion.

>   The "Fourth" (Turiya) is not a state and it is mentioned

as "Chaturtham" only for understanding. In fact it is the "Fourth

(?)" that is the "adharam" substratum, and the other three states,

i.e. waking, dream and deep sleep, seem to appear as associated with

it.

>   Regrds

>   Mani

>

>

>

> Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of

nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman.

> Advaitin Homepage at: Terms of Service.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Note from the List Moderator: Members who have the tendency to send multiple number of messages everyday are requested to limit 2 postings per day. This will provide more time for all of us to contemplate and help us to restrain our thoughts.

 

advaitin, Yogendra Bhikku <bhikkuyogi> wrote:

>

> Dear Sri Sankarraman,

>

> You wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

> At the time of death, the fuel (material phenomena like the body) is

incapable of supporting the chitta. Hence the end of life. But due to

clinging, the chitta instantaneously 'burns' [used symbolically] on

yet another body available as fuel till the time that body shall last.

What is this chitta? It consists of perceptions, feelings, mental

fabrications of past and present life (basically memory and karmic

fermentations) and finally consciousness. These 'effluents' [symbolic]

'assume' [symbolic] another 'fuel' [symbolic] and it is these

'effluents' that really take birth. In Buddhism, the tathagata does

not take birth. Even in mahayana Buddhism, where the tathagatagarbha

is like the Atman of the Upanishads, it does not take birth. It is

only these 'effluents' that take birth. [i think even in Vedanta the

Atman does not take birth, since there is no birth or death for the

Atman. Please correct me if I am wrong]

>

>  Dear Yogendra bikku,

                        The above truth of Buddhism requires

tremendous meditation to be understtod. I have been trying to

understand this thought since my early period of life. If one

understands this basic position, one becomes free from clinging,

because the self is understood to be a mere cooperation of

conformations, or in the language of the Upanishads, a mere unreal

semblance of the true self. When  a question  was put to Ramana

Maharishi as regards the basic postion of the absence of permanent I

answering to the various perceptions,held by the buddhists, Bhaghavan

says that since the seperate consciousness is a spurious off-shoot

from the real self, the buddhists deny its existence, and they are

right. Since this is a tough topic almost leading to enlightenment,

for which a lot of vairagya and tremendous meditation are needed-mere

intellectual brow-beating being irrelevant-I should revert back to you

only after deeply pondering on this issue. But, I shall welcome your

knowledge.

with warm regards,

Sankarraman

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman.

Advaitin Homepage at: Terms of Service.