NDE's can be explained through string theory?

[Guest guest]

Anybody ever think that String theory holds the answer to the idea of God, the efficacy of mantras, the acquisition of siddhis, of reincarnation, of just about any mystical phenomenon?

 

That it may be the key to truly uniting science with religion, and at a point of full understanding of string theory, everyone will become a potential yogi?

[Guest guest]

care to explain "String theory"....thanks

 

anand

[Guest guest]

 

care to explain "String theory"....thanks

 

anand

 

 

String theory, you've never heard of it? it's the possible theory that some scientists are exploring that might unify quantum physics and general relativity. Einstein, in his latter years, worked on a "Theory of Everything" which would unite quantum physics and general relativity, as the idea of two separate scientific models describing the world ran counter to his sensibilities. He died obsessing over a potential Theory of Everything.

 

String theory is that potential Theory of Everything, and consists of a theory that the universe isn't based on zero-dimensional point-like particles, but rather one-dimensional strings of energy of Planck length, vibrating at different frequencies, which more or less causes the formation of the universe. That's the rough idea, but it does imply that there are more than 4 dimensions that we normally experience (the usual length, width, height, and time). In fact, there are 11 dimensions, some of which are coiled up really tightly and therefore practically invisible to most people (if not all).

 

There are open strings and closed strings. I've heard it said that the chakras in the human body, are actually "knotted strings", and considering the opening of those chakras elevates human consciousness to other planes of reality, the chakras may be the coiled up dimensions string theorists are speculating about.

 

Just some speculation on my part about the link between mystical ideas and string theory, but if it were indeed true, that would be very exciting. The thing is, most scientists do not view string theory as an actual THEORY as it is nearly impossible to falsify, because either the technology's not there yet, nor is string theory fully fleshed out enough to be able to make predictions about the universe that can be empirically tested. However, I believe some physicists of reknown such as Stephen Hawking, and Brian Greene are big proponents of string theory.

[theist]

We know there must be a connection. Rather they now have discovered it or not I have no idea because i can't understand it really. There are other dimensions so there must be some way of recognizing them through higher science.

 

Brian Greene was being interviewed by Terry Gross on her widely broadcast show called Fresh Air. In that interview he mentioned that when discussing some of these ideas with his brother who is a Hare krsna devotee, his brother told him he that was point was already there in some vedic book which Brian didn't name.

 

I am curious as to who his brother actually is. Anyone know? Joshua Greene maybe?

[Guest guest]

 

String theory, you've never heard of it? it's the possible theory that some scientists are exploring that might unify quantum physics and general relativity. Einstein, in his latter years, worked on a "Theory of Everything" which would unite quantum physics and general relativity, as the idea of two separate scientific models describing the world ran counter to his sensibilities. He died obsessing over a potential Theory of Everything.

 

 

I've heard about string theory and remember seeing a programme on it on TV.

Some Hindus believe string theory and quantum mechanics have some relation to Advaita Vedanta. Do you know what the relation is?

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the explanation. This is the first time i am hearing about this theory. Sounds very interesting. Only if the scientists can come out a little from their rigid testing formula and accept other schools from a different angle, i am sure they can discover more in science than they actually do.

 

They are falling prey to their own testing mechanims that they dont think beyond it. My 2 cents....i had to say something.......

 

Haribol!

 

anand

[bija]

The science show I saw about string theory was very complex and way beyond my grasp. In the show they said that the strings could possibly be the source of life. And that the strings could be described in some degree to sound vibration. Somewhat like the vibration coming from the string of a violin, they said. That the whole universe was built upon sound vibration. My heart jumped when I heard this. Sound familiar to anyone?

The Veda explains truth in a different way than modern science language. But wouldn't it be wonderful if this modern language of science eventually begins to verify and corollate the truth of the vedas.

Forgive my speculation but, "Oh, the wonderful sound vibrations of Krsna's flute!":)

[Guest guest]

Haribol

 

 

You are right , bija. I read something about String Theory, too. That is why in the thread by theist , receiving the holy name from the proper source I did emphasize the holy names being received through the sound vibrations.

 

In the science of cosmology, the study of vibrations leads to so many possibilities and many theories like how the universe is expanding, etc, and these theories are deduced from the vibrations the scientists are picking up from the space.

 

Om nama om nama om Vasudevayah

Myrla

Australia

[bija]

Speculating in this way is fun and exciting for me. But I must say my accepting of Veda does not depend on the knowledge of modern science.

The beauty of Caitanya Caritamrita, Gita, and Bhagavatam are the sound vibrations to nurture my faith and the tools to develop bhakti. But I am glad that this thread on string theory came up. Exciting times we live in if such theories eventually will lead to the acceptance of the spiritual realm.

 

Nice to hear from you Myrla...Nitai-Gaura Hari bol.

[Guest guest]

I just finishished cleaning the floor being a lazy Saturday morning here in Melbourne and this topic of cosmology brings back to memory an article I read about the theory of multiverses and what came to my mind immediately was the image of MahaVishnu lying in the causal ocean with the many universes in the background. I think Jndas has a very nice picture of that painting in his other website.

 

However, at this stage in the field of science, there are many theories and concepts too that run counter to the Vedic knowledge. But sometimes it’s nice to hear scientist getting a tiny glimpse of the “reality” beyond this planet.

 

Also coming back to my mind, how the knowledge, Srimad Bhagavatam, the Bhagavat Purana, was transmitted to Vyasadev orally— through sound vibrations.

 

But the bad thing is that, this topic, also brings back the memory that I failed my one physics subject in the university. I had to take it a second time !!

 

Radhe Radhe

Myrla

[bija]

Is anyone familiar with the Brahma Samhita? Does it shed any light on all this?

[Guest guest]

Bija:But I must say my accepting of Veda does not depend on the knowledge of modern science

 

 

Yes, that applies to me too. It is fun talking about these topics especially after we have done a few rounds and heard some kirtan.

 

Nice to hear from an Aussie in this forum.

[Guest guest]

Bija: Is anyone familiar with the Brahma Samhita? Does it shed any light on all this?

 

 

A good question, it taps my curiosity too. After my material responsibilities today, will try to search something on the net, if there is.

 

 

Glories to Guru and Gauranga

Myrla

[Guest guest]

In any case, this is precisely what I'm talking about. The idea that all things in the universe are vibrational in nature, just like the Vedas say. I don't think it has as much to do with SOUND vibrations, as it does vibrations of the strings of energy, which consciousness (presumably) can impact the most when it is honed, thus giving way to yogic powers and perception of God. Reciting mantras isn't necessarily sound-based. I've heard that these mantras are far more impactful when reciting them silently, and I think I understand why. Saying them aloud is much easier than saying them in your mind, while absolutely still, with consciousness honed, so I imagine the benefits and effects of the mantras are much greater.

 

However, I don't think science will EVER accept God as its present conception. I think God will be reinterpreted in a way that will be reduced to a set of physical laws most likely string-related, and won't be recognized as God per se. For instance, imagine a person inspecting a mole on a person's skin with a magnifying lens. All he'll see is that person's mole, not the person. In that same way, I think that's the direction scientists are heading. They'll see aspects of God, but they won't "see" or recognize God as God.

 

Also, I really do believe string theory is valid to a certain extent, simply because it's compatible with mystical phenomena yet describes scientific phenomena as well.

 

However, if modern science comes to a conclusion against string theory, I must say, that I can't hold faith in all this, because ignoring what is discovered seems like wishful thinking more than real faith. Real faith has to be grounded in something, otherwise it's just pure fantasy.

 

What frustrates me however is myopic scientists with incredibly closed-minds. Take Michael Shermer for instance, author of "Why People Believe Weird Things". Scientists like these ridicule others for their beliefs, but never truly understand where they're coming from and say that personal life experiences can't be trusted as they could be based on psychological wishful thinking.

[Guest guest]

Come on. make this discussion a bit personal. What is your name? You are discussing a topic that is neutral --- no aparadhas i suppose will result ot of this topic.

 

Jaya Sri Radhe

 

Myrla

[Guest guest]

Your post above is controversial to say the least. All the same, why hide?

 

Anyway, I will try to digest what you say and make my comments.

Myrla

[bija]

Dear Guest,

I am not so well read regarding the scientific approach. So my comments in this discussion will be limited. But a couple of weeks ago I saw a show about the Intelligent Design debate going on in the U.S. I perceived from the tv show that many of the supporters of this Intelligent Design are more from the fundamentalist christian persuasion. I thought wouldn't it be good if some Hindu scientists or Vedic scholars could deepen and enrich the debate. The depth and understandings of God in the Vedic tradition are much more broad I feel. And could add much more weight to the debate.

 

You have shared some great insights; for example you say honed in consciousness could impact these strings. Giving way to and explaining mystical phenomena. Interesting stuff. Very probable indeed.

 

What are your feelings about spiritual substance, beyond this material substance(both subtle and gross)? Do you make a distinction between the spiritual and material? If strings do exist, would they be still of the material substance? Or do you make no distinction between material and spiritual substance. You seem to have a very probing mind, I am interested to know what you think.

[Guest guest]

 

We know there must be a connection. Rather they now have discovered it or not I have no idea because i can't understand it really. There are other dimensions so there must be some way of recognizing them through higher science.

 

Brian Greene was being interviewed by Terry Gross on her widely broadcast show called Fresh Air. In that interview he mentioned that when discussing some of these ideas with his brother who is a Hare krsna devotee, his brother told him he that was point was already there in some vedic book which Brian didn't name.

 

I am curious as to who his brother actually is. Anyone know? Joshua Greene maybe?

 

Wow, I didn't know Brian Greene was actually aware even remotely of the connection between the Vedic religion and string theory.

 

Pretty cool stuff.

 

 

Advaita Vedanta is possibly related to all of this, because advaita vedanta doesn't espouse a personal God. Advaita vedanta suggests consciousness is behind all phenomena, that we are all consciousness, and that we essentially are creating our own reality. However, this doesn't mean I don't believe in God. My leanings are more towards vishishtadvaita, which is qualified nondualism. I don't believe in absolutes, as I think most of the ideas and philosophies often discussed and still thriving today have some merit, and bring some aspect of Truth into focus. It's important I believe to reconcile which are the key points in philosophies that are compatible with one another, and see it all from a much broader view. At least, that's what I believe.

 

In any case, I've heard many physicists are VERY reluctant to even contemplate the connection between consciousness and quantum physics. I don't actually know why, but I do think that string theory and consciousness are connected in some way, as string theory seems to hold the key to different dimensions in the universe, and is even more subtle than quantum physics. That would be at least my hope, that somehow there'll be a link established between consciousness and string theory, where consciousness is proven to be the substratum behind strings. However, I think that's quite a ways off, as there still needs to be proven strings first.

[Guest guest]

 

Dear Guest,

I am not so well read regarding the scientific approach. So my comments in this discussion will be limited. But a couple of weeks ago I saw a show about the Intelligent Design debate going on in the U.S. I perceived from the tv show that many of the supporters of this Intelligent Design are more from the fundamentalist christian persuasion. I thought wouldn't it be good if some Hindu scientists or Vedic scholars could deepen and enrich the debate. The depth and understandings of God in the Vedic tradition are much more broad I feel. And could add much more weight to the debate.

 

You have shared some great insights; for example you say honed in consciousness could impact these strings. Giving way to and explaining mystical phenomena. Interesting stuff. Very probable indeed.

 

What are your feelings about spiritual substance, beyond this material substance(both subtle and gross)? Do you make a distinction between the spiritual and material? If strings do exist, would they be still of the material substance? Or do you make no distinction between material and spiritual substance. You seem to have a very probing mind, I am interested to know what you think.

 

 

Thanks bija, I appreciate the compliments. I can't say I'm a scholar on any of this yet, and may never actually be one, though I am contemplating on pursuing this course of study. I believe the spiritual side stems from consciousness, which produces these strings and vibrates them. Perhaps strings also produce consciousness, but this is just pure speculation on my part. These strings are energy that can "manifest" matter through vibrations, from what I understand. So matter need not only be converted to energy, there could be a way to convert energy into matter, and thus we would be able to truly manifest anything out of the ether.

 

I don't know what you mean by this as controversial, myrla, so if you would enlighten me as to the controversy, where it's coming from and why, I would appreciate that.

[stonehearted]

Regarding Brian Greene's brother, I'm 99 44/100 % certain that it is Joshua Greene, my Godbrother Yogesvara das.

 

There are many aspects of string theory that devotees may find interesting. One is, as mentioned, the idea that everything is vibrating energy, and in a sense, everything comes from something like sound. Greene anaologizes the vibrations of the "strings" with sound vibration. Another interesting aspect is that it shows that the four dimensions with which we're familiar (the three physical dimensions plus time) are inadequate to explain the way things seem to work. We need ten or eleven dimensions to make sense of things. This should point out the inadequacy of sense perception and reason in explaining even the phenomenal world and make it easy for thoughtful people to at least consider, if not accept, that most of life, even in the material world, goes on beyond the perception of our senses and the reach of our little minds.

 

As far as the comment that mantras are more powerful when chanted mentally, we should note that they are transmitted through sound vibration. The guru chants the mantra aloud when conferring it on the disciple.

[bija]

 

I can't say I'm a scholar on any of this yet. quote by guest.

Same here. Also I am no scholar regarding vedic spirituality. My inclinations are toward bhakti, which is very satisfying. You may like to read Brahma Samhita for an idea of the bhakti school I am focusing on.http://vedabase.net/bs/en (Click on the green icons to read the purports and verse translations). Oneday I would like to grasp more of this great scripture. I have similar interests to you regarding all this science(even if my knolwedge is not so diverse). And when you posted this thread I straight away thought of this Brahma Samhita.

I have made a note of your inclinations toward vishishadvaita. Out of respect and interest I will do some internet searching on this philosophy.

Surely spirit and consciousness are the roots of all we see, and if science can work at discovering the nature of spirit and consciousness, I feel it will be doing a great service for humanity.

I wish you all the best with your interests and research.

 

 

Even better than me searching about vishishadvaita on the net. Guest, do you know of any good sites where I may learn more about this philosophy propounded by Ramanujacarya.

[bija]

 

As far as the comment that mantras are more powerful when chanted mentally, we should note that they are transmitted through sound vibration. The guru chants the mantra aloud when conferring it on the disciple. quote by stonehearted

Yes this is what I was alluding to when the scientists are making a comparison between the vibrations of strings and sound vibrations, to use an example. It relates to the idea of transcendental sound.

Thanks Stonehearted for putting all this into words so nicely.

The strings may possibly be still material substance(who knows), maybe just a shadow of the transcendental reality. Speculating, speculating:idea:!!!

[theist]

 

Wow, I didn't know Brian Greene was actually aware even remotely of the connection between the Vedic religion and string theory.

 

Pretty cool stuff.

 

Yeah, very cool. I hope to see him sporting a bead bag on his next PBS special about string theory. The interview Terry Gross exhibited a rare stunned moment where she was obviously really surprised to hear the Hare Krsna connection. She is so smooth ordinarily.

 

 

 

Advaita Vedanta is possibly related to all of this, because advaita vedanta doesn't espouse a personal God. Advaita vedanta suggests consciousness is behind all phenomena, that we are all consciousness, and that we essentially are creating our own reality. However, this doesn't mean I don't believe in God. My leanings are more towards vishishtadvaita, which is qualified nondualism. I don't believe in absolutes, as I think most of the ideas and philosophies often discussed and still thriving today have some merit, and bring some aspect of Truth into focus. It's important I believe to reconcile which are the key points in philosophies that are compatible with one another, and see it all from a much broader view. At least, that's what I believe.

 

Personal or impersonal I don't think it matters when studying the actions of universe even at sub sub atomic levels. Both accept that the universe emanated from Brahman. The Vaisnavas though accept that Brahman emanates from Krsna. The scientists are not near that distinction. Hopefully they will follow the example of Flew their past atheist hero who has come to theism convinced by the arguments of the Intelligent Design proponents in regards to the sheer unimaginable complexity of forms and their impossibility of having evolved. No need for a stop over in impersonal thought along the way.

 

 

 

My uneducated guess is many scientists realize that once they admit that connection then they will be entering the domain of the mystics and spiritualists who they have long ridiculed. I believe many would rather be wrong then do that. I true seeker of the truth would have no problem with that but most of these scientists are very falsely proud.

 

We need Avinash in this conversation. Avinash ji where are you?

[theist]

 

Regarding Brian Greene's brother, I'm 99 44/100 % certain that it is Joshua Greene, my Godbrother Yogesvara das.

 

99 44/100%. That's pretty close there Babhru. Is Yogesvara das also scientifically trained and does he preach in that field?

[theist]

I would say strings must be material phenomena or they would be spiritual and fully eternal & conscious forms right?

 

I believe Greene referred the vibrations of strings as making up symphony. I like that, a cosmic all pervading symphony.

 

My present speculative view: (Subject to revision of course.)

From Krsna's flute the primordial sound emanates. As matter emanates from that prinordial sound at some point it may take the form of strings all vibrating an infitesimal particle of that sound. When the whole of that symphony sea of strings is heard (realized) combined in its purified or original state one hears the Omkara.

 

Maybe?

 

But we don't want to stop there. We need to trace it back to the flute of Krsna, and the form of Shamasundar, the most elegant flute player.