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Wake, Dream, Sleep: one the experiences SELF

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Hari Om

~~~~~~~~

 

 

Namaste Manuel

_______________________

Manuel wrote:

Still, I have lived in the "non dual existence" (to put it in words),

and  one of the most shocking memories I have is that "THAT" is there

all the time.

 

_____________________________

 

Thank you for your post, it is good to hear from someone possessed of

SELF.  Is your experience all the time?  7x24x365?

 

Was this a 'dawning' for you, or ahve you been blessed to be in SELF

all of your life?

 

I ask this for you have written 'lived' in past tense, vs. present

condtion. DO you care to describe your experices?

 

pranams,

 

yajvan

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  Namaste Manuel, Yajvan and everyone,

 

    Very interesting to read your experience Manuel. This reminds me

of when I was doing what we (me and friends) called "vamachara

tantric" practices to reach non-dual state of consciousness with the

use of mantra´s, concentration and intoxicants such as LSD and MDMA.

I stopped doing these practices for 1 year and 1 month now, both

because my Guru was always against it, and also because what he said

could happen to me did happen: a had what one can call a "psychotic"

episode. Suddenly the world existed only because of me, I heard

people talking about me, etc. I came back to normal resorting to

Bhakti and slept, then when I woke up I was normal again. This was

in March 2005. 

    But before that (as soon as July 1999, beggining of the tantric

practice using these drugs) I had many interesting experiences.

Coincidentally I met my Guru in September 1999 just months after my

first big experience (which was an LSD experiment conducted by me

and a friend in the mountains) where I saw cristal-clearly that

UNCONSCIOUSNESS is INCLUDED IN CONSCIOUSNESS. What we call

Unconsciousness and fear is in fact another mode of Consciousness,

this was what I saw, and I wept in joy after that, still there was a

terrible feeling of "having to come back" to normal consciousness, I

think it was compassion. Then I got into a depression because I knew

that it was all a trickery, still I wanted to live the trickery. I

only understood that I really did not want to be liberated as they

say about one year ago. Then I understood that the dual-mode (as

opposed to non-dual mode) of being is much more pleasurable. I

identified myself laughingly with the character that wants to come

back and betrays Morpheus in the film "Matrix". It is just the case

with me. I only began losing the fear of being in non-dual mode some

months ago, due to 1-my stopping consumption of any drug, including

alcohol, completely, which restored my sense of solidity of the

world and 2- by my Guru telling me that the process had to be

gradual in my case... that I was "beyond the point of no-return" and

could not come all the way back but, because of my ego, the process

would take many years and perhaps more than this life to be smoothly

finalized, just like a fire made of wood is slowly blazed and

finally even the brases become cool. If the process is too rapid, my

Guru said, there is a sensation of loss, which is not what happens,

but the mind interprets it as a big loss and dreads it.

   I intend to go further on my experiences on other posts and am

very glad to have read about yours, Manuel. Keep smiling in the

matrix and don´t forget to have fun because that is what the matrix

is about. And please tell us Advaitins when you decide to leave the

matrix so that we can write our final words to Manuel Delaflor. ;-)

   Best wishes,

   Fred

 

 

advaitin, "Manuel Delaflor" <delaflor.>

wrote:

>

> On 5/9/06, yajvan <agnimile> wrote:

> >

> > Hari Om

> > ~~~~~~~~

> >

> >

> > Namaste Manuel

> >

>

> Namaste Yajvan

>

>

> > Thank you for your post, it is good to hear from someone

possessed of

> > SELF.  Is your experience all the time?  7x24x365?

> >

> > Was this a 'dawning' for you, or ahve you been blessed to be in

SELF

> > all of your life?

> >

> > I ask this for you have written 'lived' in past tense, vs.

present

> > condtion. DO you care to describe your experices?

> >

>

> I will explain my experience, with pleasure, but I hope you dont

expect the

> "normal" words of one who have reached the ultimate state (to put

it in

> words).

>

> What is worst, I do not know the appropriate words (are they

sanscrit?) to

> express myself better.

>

> Anyway. Indeed I wrote "lived" because I am no longer "there".

>

> It happened suddenly, I was driving back home when I remembered

the I am

> That by Nisargadatta, and without advice I was "THERE". I realized

that the

> book were written just for me, but not me Manuel, but for "me" the

non dual

> reality. There are no others, and there is no I.

>

> Now, for me, this was not about founding "the absolute bliss", all

I reached

> was an inconmensurable fear about not being a human being anymore.

>

> I was there for four months, in constant and violent fear because

my human

> shape was just an idea, and nothing I knew was real. The world

become,

> strangely, completely different to what we normally see. It is

impossible to

> describe using words that state of "no being" that it is still,

somehow,

> inside this illusion about "being".

>

> A bit of history. All I wanted, for all my life, was to understand

what was

> the world and what we were doing here. This is, of course, up to

that

> moment, in which I really didnt want to know anything else. There

were

> nothing else to know. I saw that all "knowledge" is a mental

illusion,

> merely tricks with words, without any content.

>

> I returned to be a human among humans, because the fear was all

that was

> left of me. A zen master told me, years later, that it was the

last resort

> of my ego to "bring me back".

>

> That happened 12 years ago. I still feel that I can go "there" if

I want

> (sometimes, discussing about philosophy or just "entering the

moment" Im

> almost there, for a few moments), but for now Im happy living my

life as a

> human being... Maybe when I feel Im ready.

>

> (I understand perfectly the logical contradictions in here, but

its a

> problem of logic, not of being)

>

> Now, regarding your specific question (sorry for the large post),

yes. THAT

> was there all the time, but again, words cant really grasp it. You

are in a

> completely different state; Walking life, Dreaming and Deep Sleep

are just

> "experiences" that happen, and "something" was there, all the time,

> watching. It was not me, it is not human, it can be called

Brahman??

>

> I hope my answer is useful to you.

>

> :)

>

>

> Manuel Delaflor

>

>

>

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Hari Om

~~~~~~~

 

 

Namaskar Manuel,

Thank you for sharing the experience...

 

Perhaps with your permission I can ask a few questions on this

experience, or level of being you were absorbed in... I will only

pursue with your permission as it sounds that overall, it may have not

been of your desire?

 

Please advise what is best .

 

pranams,

 

yajvan

 

 

 

 

 

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman.

Advaitin Homepage at: Terms of Service.

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  Namaskar Manuel and all Advaitin-s,

 

   One of the reasons why I stopped taking intoxicants to achieve

altered states of consciousness and insights is that whenever I told

my Guru about my experiences he would just remain quiet for a few

moments and say that "this is not the way". Then once he told

me, "can´t you see that if you ingest a substance, even if you have

a Samadhi, it is of no value because of the ingestion of the

substance? what is valuable is only what you can naturally by

yourself realize not what you can get from outer sources even if you

have Samadhi." He told me that because I was having a very

interesting feeling -- one which I have nowadays when I meet him --

that my body is non-existent or made of some so subtle substance

that I cannot feel it. I met him on tuesday and as expected walked

out without my body again :-) and the good thing is that there is

absolutely no drug involved. So to me this proves that real progress

is independent on drug consumption. And also, I would advise anyone

who would like to take drugs to reach higher states of the danger of

dying or getting irreparably mad. My psychotic episode was enough to

divert me from a "spiritual fast-food" path.

    Om.

    Fred

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