Who wants war with Iran?

[Kulapavana]

<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>Synopsis: Members of AIPAC held more than 450 meetings with members of Congress in which Iran was the topic</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD><TD vAlign=top>Source: Jewish Telegraph Agency</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD><TD vAlign=top>Published: May 9, 2006 Author: Chanan Tigay</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD><TD vAlign=top></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

<!-- Members of AIPAC held more than 450 meetings with members of Congress in which Iran was the topic -->NEW YORK, May 10 (JTA) — With concern mounting over Iran’s atomic ambitions, the American Jewish community is lobbying intensively to ensure that the threat is taken seriously by the United States, the media and the world.

 

Careful to avoid giving the impression that it’s primarily an issue of Jewish or Israeli concern, however, U.S. Jewish groups are taking pains to highlight the greater regional and global threats posed by a nuclear Iran and its Holocaust-denying president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

 

“We have to mobilize public opinion in this country and around the word to understand the serious threat that this represents,” Malcolm Hoenlein, executive vice chairman of the Conference of President of Major American Jewish Organizations, told JTA. Iran is “the fulcrum of the international terrorist movement, not only though Hezbollah and Hamas and Islamic Jihad, which they aid, but terrorist groups around the world — including in the United States and Europe.”

 

The American Jewish Committee bought ads last month in The New York Times, Financial Times, International Herald Tribune and New York Sun, asking, “Suppose Iran one day gives nuclear devices to terrorists. Could anyone anywhere feel safe?”

 

The idea, said David Harris, the AJCommittee’s executive director, was “to make sure that the global threat was understood, as opposed only to the Israel dimension.”

 

On Tuesday, the head of Israel’s military intelligence unit, Amos Yadlin, said that, absent sanctions, Iran would attain nuclear weapons by 2010.

 

According to reports, Iran already has procured North Korean missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads as far as Israel and parts of Europe. The Bush administration has said it will not tolerate a nuclear Iran, a sentiment recently echoed by German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

 

When Ahmadinejad “says that he wants to destroy Israel, the world needs to take it seriously,” Bush said in an interview with German weekly Bild am Sonntag. “This is a serious threat, aimed at an ally of the United States and Germany. What Ahmadinejad also means is that if he is ready to destroy one country, then he would also be ready to destroy others. This is a threat that needs to be dealt with.”

 

The foreign ministers of several key Security Council members met Monday to discuss a proposed U.N. resolution to brake Iran’s nuclear program, but did not reach consensus. Russia and China still oppose including any mention of sanctions or possible military intervention in the resolution, which is being sponsored by Britain and France and backed by the United States.

 

Hoenlein said the Presidents Conference is deliberately taking a quiet approach to its lobbying on Iran.

 

“This is an area where, I think, we do not want this to be seen as a Jewish issue; it’s not,” he said. “This is a danger for America, for the world. Therefore, I think the low-visibility but intensive approach is appropriate.”

 

“We’re not against protests or American Jews expressing themselves on this,” Hoenlein added, “but it shouldn’t be exclusively Jews.”

 

Jewish groups have publicly backed the Iran Freedom Support Act, a piece of legislation that has passed the U.S. House of Representatives and is now going through the Senate. The act would impose sanctions on companies doing business with Iran and would promote democratic organizations there. The House bill also includes language that urges American investors to divest from Iran.

 

Jewish groups have vigorously lobbied American and international leaders, and have held meetings to educate members of the media.

 

During its Washington policy conference in March, members of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee held more than 450 meetings with members of Congress in which Iran was among the major topics of discussion, AIPAC spokeswoman Jennifer Cannata said.

 

Leaders of the American Jewish Congress have held high-level talks on the topic with the Jordanian mission to the United Nations, and will be traveling to Jordan later this month to meet with King Abdullah II.

 

AJCommittee officials raised the topic of Iran when they met Tuesday with French Foreign Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy. Last week, the AJCommittee spoke with Merkel and U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, among others. The group also has met with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov.

 

Despite differences in approach among world leaders, Harris said, “There is a virtual unanimity of view on the threat assessment. No one we have met takes the issue lightly or minimizes the danger.”

 

The World Jewish Congress has undertaken several significant programs to lobby and educate on the Iranian threat. Coming out of the group’s February Governing Board meeting — during which Israeli, American and European experts addressed the group on Iran — leaders of European Jewish communities began lobbying their governments to speak out against Iran and declare Ahmadinejad and his colleagues personas non gratas.

 

The WJC, which continues to meet with world leaders on the subject, also has been putting out a bi-weekly publication called “Iran Update,” a collection of relevant news on Iran and analyses of the situation that is sent to presidents of Jewish communities around the world, diplomats, politicians, experts and members of the media. The WJC also has made a slide show on Iran available on its Web site, http://www.worldjewishcongress.org.

 

“Iran’s nuclear program is not the only concern,” said Pinchas Shapiro, the WJC’s director of special projects. “Their unbridled support for international terrorism, from the Marine barracks bombing in 1983 to the Buenos Aires Jewish community center bombing in 1994 to their declared recruitment of tens of thousands of suicide bombers to attack Western targets, are all matters of grave seriousness.”

 

Abraham Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League, said Iran is either No. 1 or No. 2 on the group’s agenda in all meetings with American and foreign officials. Sometimes the Hamas-led Palestinian Authority tops the list of talking points.

 

“The threat of a nuclear Iran is an irrational state which has declared war not only on Israel and the Jewish people, but on our values and our institutions and on everything the free world cherishes,” Foxman said.

 

Referring to Ahmadinejad’s threats to annihilate Israel, Foxman added that history has taught that “you pay attention to what lunatics say, especially when they have the means to effectuate their words.”

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

Good logic here - Kulapavana - are you saying that there is something wrong with that paper?

 

No one in the west wants this war - but it may be that this war is unavoidable just how long do we wait to see if their barking and snarling advances to biting?

 

God-damn Kali yuga!

[Kulapavana]

<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>Source: WorldNetDaily</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD><TD vAlign=top>Author: Pat Buchanan</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD><TD vAlign=top></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

<!-- Buchanan at his best! -->When there is no solution, there is no problem, observed James Burnham, the former Trotskyite turned Cold War geostrategist.

 

Burnham's insight came again to mind as President Bush ended his meeting with Ehud Olmert by announcing that the Israeli prime minister had brought with him some "bold ideas" for peace.

 

And what bold ideas might that be?

 

Olmert wants Bush to remain steadfast in refusing to talk to the Hamas-dominated Palestinian Authority. He wants U.S. support for Israel's wall that is fencing in large slices of the West Bank and all of Jerusalem, forever denying the Palestinians a viable state. He wants U.S. recognition of Israeli-drawn lines as the final borders of Israel. And he wants America to remove the "existential threat" of Iran.

 

In the six months before he proceeds unilaterally with this Sharon-Olmert plan, he will be happy to talk with Mahmoud Abbas, the isolated Palestinian president he has called "powerless."

 

What is the Bush plan to advance our interests in the Middle East? There is none. For five years, the Bush policy has been to sign off on whatever Sharon put in front of him. And now that Bush is weak, he is not going to pick a fight he cannot win and, in candor, he does not want.

 

For Bush has signed on to the Sharon agenda. And if he had a policy that clashed with the Sharon-Olmert plan, political realities would prevent his pursuing it.

 

Consider: Suppose Bush declared that Ehud Olmert's proposed withdrawals from the West Bank were insufficient, that an official Palestinian presence in East Jerusalem was imperative, and that the United States needed to aid the Palestinians whom Israel is starving out and to talk in back channels to Hamas, even as we talked to Libya's Col. Gadhafi to convince him to give up terrorism and his weapons of mass destruction.

 

 

Bush's and America's stock might rise worldwide. But here in the United States, it would be another story altogether.

 

We would hear the cry of "Munich!" from neoconservatives, echoed by evangelical Christians and the religious right. "Bibi" Netanyahu would be a fixture on Fox News, which would be asking hourly if Bush had taken leave of his senses.

 

Republican congressmen would be force-bused to the next AIPAC convention to repudiate the Bush policy. Rep. Nancy Pelosi and Sen. Harry Reid, seeing an opening to win back Jewish votes lost to Bush, would introduce a resolution putting Congress behind Olmert, against Bush.

 

Then, as his father did on the loan guarantees for Israel that he briefly held up in 1991, Bush would capitulate.

 

Thus Israel will pursue the Sharon-Olmert plan to completion. There will be withdrawals from isolated settlements and outposts, but no negotiations with a Palestinian Authority to agree on permanent borders and two states.

 

The West Bank wall will soon encompass all of the suburbs of Jerusalem for miles around. Palestine will be divided into three parts: Gaza and two enclaves on the West Bank. There will be no Palestinian official presence in Jerusalem. No viable nation.

 

Meanwhile, America will be called upon for new sums of money to subsidize the Sharon-Olmert plan, even as we are prodded to do our duty and emasculate Iran.

 

As Olmert is the pilot setting the course, and Bush has signed on as crew to his "bold ideas," our destination is easy to foresee.

 

The United States alone will recognize Israel's new borders, and her annexations of the West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem as Israel's exclusive capital. Israel will ask for and the United States will accede to Israel's request that we commit ourselves militarily to defend Israel's new frontiers. No Arab government will recognize the new borders. America's Arab friends will be further estranged.

 

Every demagogue bidding for power in the Islamic world will, like Iran's Ahmadinejad, play the Palestinian card.

 

The suffering of the Palestinian people under the U.S.-Israeli sanctions regime will further radicalize them into hating us as they do Israel. The struggle between Hamas and Fatah over diminishing aid and resources will intensify, degenerating into civil war. Iran will move into the vacuum. Eventually, with aid cut off and no hope of negotiations, Hamas will revert to terror and the third intifada will begin.

 

Western Europe, its Muslim populations growing in numbers and militancy, will neither recognize Israel's borders nor endorse U.S. policy. Europe is not going to side with 5 million Israelis, whom they believe to be in the wrong, against 300 million Arabs, who will be 500 million at mid-century.

 

Rightly, Americans say we will not let Israel be destroyed. But why must we acquiesce in Israel's annexations of Arab land? Why must we remain silent to her deprivations of the Palestinians?

 

These questions will puzzle the historians who investigate the astonishing and swift end to U.S. hegemony in the 21st century.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

Jerusalem is a Hebrew center - if the palestinians don't wish to leave that city - how can they expect peace? Muslims have mecca - what do the hebrews have? Besides - the Dome of the Rock has nothing to do with Islam par-se.

 

This was built to attract away the christian crusaders from the church.

 

On this building is the largest written script on a building anywhere and - what does these things say? That Jesus isn't God and it directs seekers to mecca. So - outside of having a long history - this landmark can be moved from there - how could it be sacrilegious to move it?

 

Of course it's claimed that the Prophet went to heaven from that spot - so what? Is that enough to lay claim to it?

 

What if one day china invades the middle east and takes away mecca?

 

How would that go over? Anyone think they would ever forget their mecca - would they stop trying to get it back?

 

It would seem that as far as global faith based realities - they want the world to tip toe around them!?

[Guest guest]

Hebrews dont have jerusalem, they came there from egypt, dont you read??? Muhammed was born in jerusalem.

 

Oh, thatas a bad thing? to say jesus is not god? We say that too, because Jesus says that too. He says "pray like me, our father....." Jesus denies that he is god, so if the dome of the rock says this too, then I say the dome is good and ought to stay.

 

Jerusalem is a world city, the home of jews, christians, and muslims. Only solution is to get rid of the party spirit of evil sectarinist bigotry and live in peace. As lo0ng as the zionist insists that they are the chosen people, and the muslim and christian say that they, too, are the only way, t5hen they all worship death, because they are all atheists who fail to do the will of the Father, meaning that they dont love God above all else, and they dont love others as they love their own.

 

bye....I let you speak for too long, but your zionism is too obvious.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

Hebrews dont have jerusalem, they came there from egypt, dont you read??? Muhammed was born in jerusalem.

 

Oh, thatas a bad thing? to say jesus is not god? We say that too, because Jesus says that too. He says "pray like me, our father....." Jesus denies that he is god, so if the dome of the rock says this too, then I say the dome is good and ought to stay.

 

Jerusalem is a world city, the home of jews, christians, and muslims. Only solution is to get rid of the party spirit of evil sectarinist bigotry and live in peace. As lo0ng as the zionist insists that they are the chosen people, and the muslim and christian say that they, too, are the only way, t5hen they all worship death, because they are all atheists who fail to do the will of the Father, meaning that they dont love God above all else, and they dont love others as they love their own.

 

bye....I let you speak for too long, but your zionism is too obvious.

 

Quote:

 

Hebrews dont have jerusalem, they came there from egypt

 

Reply:

 

That's only part of the ancient history - who had Jerusalem when they got there from Egypt? Wasn't the Palestinians!

 

Quote:

 

Muhammed was born in jerusalem

 

Reply:

 

Don't you read?? Me thinks he was born in Medina - certainly was NOT Jerusalem...

 

Quote:

 

Oh, thatas a bad thing? to say jesus is not god? We say that too, because Jesus says that too. He says "pray like me, our father....." Jesus denies that he is god, so if the dome of the rock says this too, then I say the dome is good and ought to stay.

 

Reply:

 

Oh please that's a lame premise now isn't it! Of course he isn't God. But the truth is the Dome was built to lure christians [the crusaders] to Islam. It has nothing to do with much else. Sure it aught to stay - just not there.

 

Quote:

 

Jerusalem is a world city, the home of jews, christians, and muslims. Only solution is to get rid of the party spirit of evil sectarinist bigotry and live in peace.

 

Reply:

 

Who says that it's got to be a 'world' city? You're talking about failed U.N. resolution 181 [November 29, 1947] Even if - why does that presuppose that the temple mount should stay as it is?

 

How to 'get rid of the party spirit of evil sectarinist bigotry' - if one side can never respect the Israelis national need for a temple?

 

Quote:

 

As lo0ng as the zionist insists that they are the chosen people, and the muslim and christian say that they, too, are the only way, t5hen they all worship death, because they are all atheists who fail to do the will of the Father, meaning that they dont love God above all else, and they dont love others as they love their own.

 

Reply:

 

Oh yes it's all that simple isn't it...

 

Quote:

 

I let you speak for too long, but your zionism is too obvious.

 

Reply:

 

Who are you that you let me 'speak for too long'? So what if I'm a zionist - you don't understand what that even is oh and - Your bigotry is too obvious?

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

Here is something I posted on another thread:

______________

 

Part of the message here on this thread is that the Israelis and the Palestinians must work out these issues themselves.

 

The fact is - it has been well explained here - even with the Talmud analogy of the - ‘cat and the rat shall make peace over a carcass’.

 

What does that mean here?

 

It means that if the conflicted parties continue like this - they shall not be making peace with each other - [over the region and its issues] - but rather - the 'cats and the rats' shall 'make peace' and thus 'feast' on them and - the spoils of their loss...

 

...and so we read in the news:

 

A senior Israeli source said: "We are not in the slightest bit surprised that this should have come from the British.

"On the one hand, they always say they understand Israel's problems and want to be an intermediary and, on the other they are accusing us and attempting to embarrass us. They cannot be trusted."

 

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/isr...966004637.html

 

It is time for the Israelis and the Palestinians to understand what they have to <big>feel</big> in order to be <big>moving forward with a comprehensive agreement</big> - before outsiders usurp the entire situation - to end it - in total chaos.

 

Both parties have to consider:

 

"It is better to have ten inches to stand upon than a hundred yards to fall." [Avoth d'Rab. Nathan, chap. 1]

 

Regime changes do not lead to democracies - they lead to puppet regimes and later - civil war.

When is it their turn - would the brits and the yanks become so power mad themselves so as to do that to Israel - well their born again evilangelical cult promises it!

It’s that simple – the tit for tat must stop here – as noted in this string before - the whole issue is being calculated by ‘outsiders’ who care little for either party.

They are simply waiting until they can fully usurp the two parties and - their conflict is their mutual trap.

 

<big>So either the parties settle it themselves or the outsiders – whether it be America Britain - the E.U. or even the U.N. – if these outsiders come fully into it - to make the peace - of course we know - there is not going to be real peace in that way.</big>

 

I pray to the Lord that the Leaders of these two States - are opened up to real cooperation – they are to go from being adversarial to neighborly – they can and must do this without the interference of anyone – there mustn’t be any enforced resolutions – not even from the U.N. – if the peace is to work it must come from within…

 

Peace depends on a mutual desire and that must be something that is coordinated locally – if there is to be a need for a mediator - for the parties - it cannot be a ‘politico character’ – for so many reasons – and if the parties continue in this present direction - the noted ‘well-meaning’ outsiders shall usurp them [due to the present course of reactive arrangement] – both parties the Israelis and the Palestinians shall be dictated to by outsiders who shall decide what is what.

 

We can avoid this scenario.

 

The individual parties have to see the logic in the outlined points of the settlement - vicariously discussed here.

 

What is meant when I posted:

 

This disengagement plan must be 'expanded to all other settlements'? There are some 100 west bank settlements in question?

Here is an outline of another 'workable' border plan to re-settle the various peoples.

First it must be noted - when the settlements are vacated - they must not be razed to the ground - unless the new occupants desire it so. It is not a good procedure to do that.

So where does everyone re-settle in this plan?

Well in this plan - as Jerusalem becomes a fully Israeli city - with an expansion to the east – [so of course no east west division] and - with the move of the Dome of the Rock etc., to the new site - which could be the new capital of the Palestinians [to be constructed - or trade in peace an existing city like Tel Aviv?] - this 'new' modern city should be able to PROPERLY service 2-3 million people - with PROPER rural and other urban developments - for two to three million more citizens - with this - the 'right of return' issue - should be dropped.

Part of this plan has to include a desalination plant on the new Palestinian coastline – to supply water to the arid areas that shall make up part of their territory. With this plant on the Mediterranean Sea - there would thus be no issue of water – there would be enough to be piped to new rural and urban developments – maybe enough to sell too. Without a comprehensive plan for this water - such a plan cannot succeed.

Now - the peoples displaced from the various settlements [and the ‘city to be traded’ if that is the course chosen] should be moved to an - 'expanded' - Jerusalem and re-settled PROPERLY there.

Who cannot be happy with this re-settlement plan - if this is done PROPERLY - it would be the fairest adjustment to the present and long term needs of this matter?

Of course - this is only a - 'basic outline'...

Here is a simple map I came up with - I am sure that Jordan would donate that small piece of land [to the distant south of Petra] - to this cause of Peace.

 

Then again - this important point:

 

<b>We must face the reality that part of the 'Justice' here 'naturally demands' that Jerusalem is going to have be again a fully Israeli City.

 

This city is the Hebrew 'Spiritual Center' - or 'tether'.

 

<big>Indeed Muslims - in particular - can see 'why' it is thus important to Jews - through a comparison to their own 'Spiritual Center' - 'Mecca'. </big>

 

Will this reality [of a change for Jerusalem] be - 'need fully' concluded - "honorably" and through - "Justice" - or "dishonorably" - through the so-called leaders of the World's 'singular' Superpower [with their evangelical machinators] - cultivating a future 'need less' "Violence and Urban War"?

 

The only course to see success in this connection is one that presents FULL Justice to the suffering Palestinians and - then 'historic move' of the 'Dome and Alaqsa Mosque' to its new location can take place…</b>

 

Let us pray for the broad and mutual respect of these cousins – may the Supreme [blessed be His Holy Name] offer them both the empathy to see this need to resolve their dispute within – without a need for any outsiders to come and ‘enforce peace’.

 

Here is a good thought – of late – that 'other place' on Earth - which was partitioned about sixty years ago – India and Pakistan – these two have been cooperating more and more over the Kashmir issue – obviously they are seeing the need for a resolution within – rather than having some ‘outsiders’ usurp their peace process…

 

Again - both parties must consider:

 

"It is better to have ten inches to stand upon than a hundred yards to fall." [Avoth d'Rab. Nathan, chap. 1]

 

This whole thread and its message isn’t a ‘know it all’ presentation of - ‘the answers’ - it is a stimulus to discussion of the issues with a discussion of possibilities for the parties.

 

This message here is simply an observation of the situation from the perspective of one who is an ordinary person - not a political leader and someone who is a well-wisher of both parties.

 

I know these things can be resolved - without the hate and its consequences – I know that the mass of [middle-east] Muslims and Jews understand - God is God and - a Mother is a Mother and - the heart of real peace shall be deeply impressed by mutual service to these – there must be real peace - for our God and - for our Mothers.

The truth is we do not hear much for positive resolution based discussion - like this – we see extremists everywhere pumping the masses with their various nightmare theologies – those based in illusion and hate and exclusivity messages – we hear ‘little’ about the real possibility of comprehensive peace - for everyone.

 

Also – this Jerusalem issue – when is ‘this’ to be dealt with – when do proper and REALSITC discussions begin?

 

Who is going to conduct that settlement - if the peoples of consequence - cannot resolve to do so themselves?

 

What are the obviously perilous alternate options for this aspect of the resolution? Shall it be a plan - which is a facsimile of the foolish U.N. Resolution 181?

 

Why are the various ‘outsiders’ [the Europeans and the Americans] still encouraging that there can be a two-state-divided Jerusalem?

 

In doing that they are not relating to the real needs and the proper justice of this issue – of course - all this is [and will be] discussed here on this thread…

 

http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/forums/spiritual-discussions/40918-origins-satan-myth-impact-global-politics-18.html#post304848

[mahak]

Haribol. You said:

 

Who are you that you let me 'speak for too long'? So what if I'm a zionist - you don't understand what that even is oh and - Your bigotry is too obvious?

 

<!-- / message -->I am sorry for sounding so puffed up, and Im not trying to shut you up at all. What I meant is that your viewpoints have largely gone unchallenged, and I am merely challenging. But the way I put it was wrong, wrong, wrong, and I apologize heartily.

 

Also, I am not a bigot. The problem is that anyone who opposes Israel (the nation) is immediately accused of bigotry asnd anti semitism. This is the bigotry of the zionist, actually, shutting off all debate on the issues and assuming the victim pose. I challenged you because you blew off the obvious false news report as if it didnt matter, yet before exposure of the lie, you were making quite a statement with that lie. This is also a convenient tool of the neocons. Their leader has been exposed as one who only lies every time he moves his this murderous lips, yet they say his lies dont matter because we got rid of the evil saddam. Next year, if the dems self-destruct (which I fully expect, BTW) and fail to win both the house and the senate, then this fascist will nuke Iran, Iran will destroy the middle east, China and russia will get into the act, and then we will have nothing at all to talk about. In fact, if you are, indeed, a scholar (which I believe you are to an extent, albeit a biased one), you will know that in the end, on the battlefield, all the participants will be laid so low (loss of gravity, destruction of magnetic shield) that they will forget why they are engaged in battle. This is the prophecy, not only in conventional sources, but in rare sources such as the kebra and abyssinian writings, the indigenous prophecy of the indigenous tribesfolk throughout the world, etc.

 

Anyway, there is no justice, there is no peace, and this is certainly the age for it, which we probably agree on. We witness, but lets not get all wrapped up in that we participate. I wont, even though I firmly believe that fascists have usurped Amerikkka<!-- sig -->. I am a historian, and I know that the only way fascists relinquish power is to have a crushing military defeat at the hands of their enemy. This means Amerikkka is laid low, seven cities gone, and the suffering too great for the rest of us to bear. Thats why I have preached that we learn to give what we have been given, up to the full extent of what we have recieved, understood, and applied to our own lives. We wont have a center to consult, we may be the only vaisnava within hundreds of mad max wasteland miles. We may have to initiate, we may have to be diksa guru. What options exist in the survival camp where everyone has particulate bleeding thru their forms.

 

Please dont cheerlead this outcome. Kali Yuga is not the age for cheerleading political sides. Ill leave for now, but will reprint here Srila Prabhupadas points on political movement here in this age.

 

Hare Krsna, again, I apologize for being so blunt, ys, mahaksadasa

[mahak]

Srimad Bhagavatam 1.5.11

On the other hand, that literature which is full of descriptions of the transcendental glories of the name, fame, forms, pastimes, etc., of the unlimited Supreme Lord is a different creation, full of transcendental words directed toward bringing about a revolution in the impious lives of this world's misdirected civilization. Such transcendental literatures, even though imperfectly composed, are heard, sung and accepted by purified men who are thoroughly honest.

PURPORT

It is a qualification of the great thinkers to pick up the best even from the worst. It is said that the intelligent man should pick up nectar from a stock of poison, should accept gold even from a filthy place, should accept a good and qualified wife even from an obscure family and should accept a good lesson even from a man or from a teacher who comes from the untouchables. These are some of the ethical instructions for everyone in every place without exception. But a saint is far above the level of an ordinary man. He is always absorbed in glorifying the Supreme Lord because by broadcasting the holy name and fame of the Supreme Lord, the polluted atmosphere of the world will change, and as a result of propagating the transcendental literatures like Srimad-Bhagavatam, people will become sane in their transactions.

 

While preparing this commentation on this particular stanza of Srimad-Bhagavatam we have a crisis before us. Our neighboring friend China has attacked the border of India with a militaristic spirit. We have practically no business in the political field, yet we see that previously there were both China and India, and they both lived peacefully for centuries without ill feeling. The reason is that they lived those days in an atmosphere of God consciousness, and every country, over the surface of the world, was God-fearing, pure-hearted and simple, and there was no question of political diplomacy. There is no cause of quarrel between the two countries China and India over land which is not very suitable for habitation, and certainly there is no cause for fighting on this issue. But due to the age of quarrel, Kali, which we have discussed, there is always a chance of quarrel on slight provocation. This is due not to the issue in question, but to the polluted atmosphere of this age: systematically there is propaganda by a section of people to stop glorification of the name and fame of the Supreme Lord. Therefore, there is a great need for disseminating the message of Srimad-Bhagavatam all over the world. It is the duty of every responsible Indian to broadcast the transcendental message of Srimad-Bhagavatam throughout the world to do all the supermost good as well as to bring about the desired peace in the world. Because India has failed in her duty by neglecting this responsible work, there is so much quarrel and trouble all over the world. We are confident that if the transcendental message of Srimad-Bhagavatam is received only by the leading men of the world, certainly there will be a change of heart, and naturally the people in general will follow them.

 

The mass of people in general are tools in the hands of the modern politicians and leaders of the people. If there is a change of heart of the leaders only, certainly there will be a radical change in the atmosphere of the world. We know that our honest attempt to present this great literature conveying transcendental messages for reviving the God consciousness of the people in general and respiritualizing the world atmosphere is fraught with many difficulties. Our presenting this matter in adequate language, especially a foreign language, will certainly fail, and there will be so many literary discrepancies despite our honest attempt to present it in the proper way. But we are sure that with all our faults in this connection the seriousness of the subject matter will be taken into consideration, and the leaders of society will still accept this due to its being an honest attempt to glorify the Almighty God. When there is fire in a house, the inmates of the house go out to get help from the neighbors who may be foreigners, and yet without knowing the language the victims of the fire express themselves, and the neighbors understand the need, even though not expressed in the same language. The same spirit of cooperation is needed to broadcast this transcendental message of the Srimad-Bhagavatam throughout the polluted atmosphere of the world. After all, it is a technical science of spiritual values, and thus we are concerned with the techniques and not with the language. If the techniques of this great literature are understood by the people of the world, there will be success.

When there are too many materialistic activities by the people in general all over the world, there is no wonder that a person or a nation attacks another person or nation on slight provocation. That is the rule of this age of Kali or quarrel. The atmosphere is already polluted with corruption of all description, and everyone knows it well. There are so many unwanted literatures full of materialistic ideas of sense gratification. In many countries there are bodies appointed by the state to detect and censor obscene literature. This means that neither the government nor the responsible leaders of the public want such literature, yet it is in the marketplace because the people want it for sense gratification. The people in general want to read (that is a natural instinct), but because their minds are polluted they want such literatures. Under the circumstances, transcendental literature like Srimad-Bhagavatam will not only diminish the activities of the corrupt mind of the people in general, but also it will supply food for their hankering after reading some interesting literature. In the beginning they may not like it because one suffering from jaundice is reluctant to take sugar candy, but we should know that sugar candy is the only remedy for jaundice. Similarly, let there be systematic propaganda for popularizing reading of the Bhagavad-gita and the Srimad-Bhagavatam, which will act like sugar candy for the jaundicelike condition of sense gratification. When men have a taste for this literature, the other literatures, which are catering poison to society, will then automatically cease.

 

We are sure, therefore, that everyone in human society will welcome Srimad-Bhagavatam, even though it is now presented with so many faults, for it is recommended by Sri Narada, who has very kindly appeared in this chapter.

 

;)

[D B Cooper Jr]

The way it is looking in America it isn't going to take any sort of Iranian invasion or nuclear strike to bring America to its knees. The massive immigration looks like it is going to be the end of America as people know it. Wether the new America will be better than the old America remains to be seen but it looks more and more like the new America is going to be a massive social welfare state.

 

 

Haribol. You said:

 

Who are you that you let me 'speak for too long'? So what if I'm a zionist - you don't understand what that even is oh and - Your bigotry is too obvious?

 

<!-- / message -->I am sorry for sounding so puffed up, and Im not trying to shut you up at all. What I meant is that your viewpoints have largely gone unchallenged, and I am merely challenging. But the way I put it was wrong, wrong, wrong, and I apologize heartily.

 

Also, I am not a bigot. The problem is that anyone who opposes Israel (the nation) is immediately accused of bigotry asnd anti semitism. This is the bigotry of the zionist, actually, shutting off all debate on the issues and assuming the victim pose. I challenged you because you blew off the obvious false news report as if it didnt matter, yet before exposure of the lie, you were making quite a statement with that lie. This is also a convenient tool of the neocons. Their leader has been exposed as one who only lies every time he moves his this murderous lips, yet they say his lies dont matter because we got rid of the evil saddam. Next year, if the dems self-destruct (which I fully expect, BTW) and fail to win both the house and the senate, then this fascist will nuke Iran, Iran will destroy the middle east, China and russia will get into the act, and then we will have nothing at all to talk about. In fact, if you are, indeed, a scholar (which I believe you are to an extent, albeit a biased one), you will know that in the end, on the battlefield, all the participants will be laid so low (loss of gravity, destruction of magnetic shield) that they will forget why they are engaged in battle. This is the prophecy, not only in conventional sources, but in rare sources such as the kebra and abyssinian writings, the indigenous prophecy of the indigenous tribesfolk throughout the world, etc.

 

Anyway, there is no justice, there is no peace, and this is certainly the age for it, which we probably agree on. We witness, but lets not get all wrapped up in that we participate. I wont, even though I firmly believe that fascists have usurped Amerikkka<!-- sig -->. I am a historian, and I know that the only way fascists relinquish power is to have a crushing military defeat at the hands of their enemy. This means Amerikkka is laid low, seven cities gone, and the suffering too great for the rest of us to bear. Thats why I have preached that we learn to give what we have been given, up to the full extent of what we have recieved, understood, and applied to our own lives. We wont have a center to consult, we may be the only vaisnava within hundreds of mad max wasteland miles. We may have to initiate, we may have to be diksa guru. What options exist in the survival camp where everyone has particulate bleeding thru their forms.

 

Please dont cheerlead this outcome. Kali Yuga is not the age for cheerleading political sides. Ill leave for now, but will reprint here Srila Prabhupadas points on political movement here in this age.

 

Hare Krsna, again, I apologize for being so blunt, ys, mahaksadasa

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

Haribol. You said:

 

Who are you that you let me 'speak for too long'? So what if I'm a zionist - you don't understand what that even is oh and - Your bigotry is too obvious?

 

<!-- / message -->I am sorry for sounding so puffed up, and Im not trying to shut you up at all. What I meant is that your viewpoints have largely gone unchallenged, and I am merely challenging. But the way I put it was wrong, wrong, wrong, and I apologize heartily.

 

Also, I am not a bigot. The problem is that anyone who opposes Israel (the nation) is immediately accused of bigotry asnd anti semitism. This is the bigotry of the zionist, actually, shutting off all debate on the issues and assuming the victim pose. I challenged you because you blew off the obvious false news report as if it didnt matter, yet before exposure of the lie, you were making quite a statement with that lie. This is also a convenient tool of the neocons. Their leader has been exposed as one who only lies every time he moves his this murderous lips, yet they say his lies dont matter because we got rid of the evil saddam. Next year, if the dems self-destruct (which I fully expect, BTW) and fail to win both the house and the senate, then this fascist will nuke Iran, Iran will destroy the middle east, China and russia will get into the act, and then we will have nothing at all to talk about. In fact, if you are, indeed, a scholar (which I believe you are to an extent, albeit a biased one), you will know that in the end, on the battlefield, all the participants will be laid so low (loss of gravity, destruction of magnetic shield) that they will forget why they are engaged in battle. This is the prophecy, not only in conventional sources, but in rare sources such as the kebra and abyssinian writings, the indigenous prophecy of the indigenous tribesfolk throughout the world, etc.

 

Anyway, there is no justice, there is no peace, and this is certainly the age for it, which we probably agree on. We witness, but lets not get all wrapped up in that we participate. I wont, even though I firmly believe that fascists have usurped Amerikkka<!-- sig -->. I am a historian, and I know that the only way fascists relinquish power is to have a crushing military defeat at the hands of their enemy. This means Amerikkka is laid low, seven cities gone, and the suffering too great for the rest of us to bear. Thats why I have preached that we learn to give what we have been given, up to the full extent of what we have recieved, understood, and applied to our own lives. We wont have a center to consult, we may be the only vaisnava within hundreds of mad max wasteland miles. We may have to initiate, we may have to be diksa guru. What options exist in the survival camp where everyone has particulate bleeding thru their forms.

 

Please dont cheerlead this outcome. Kali Yuga is not the age for cheerleading political sides. Ill leave for now, but will reprint here Srila Prabhupadas points on political movement here in this age.

 

Hare Krsna, again, I apologize for being so blunt, ys, mahaksadasa

 

 

Most polls in recent years have shown strong Palestinian public support for a state along the 1967 borders. Hamas seeks an Islamic state in place of Israel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://ca.news./s/26052006/6/n-world-hamas-militia-streets-abbas-challenge.html

[Guest guest]

I have heard many projections for Iran having nuclear weapons capability in no more than 7 years. In the meantime, the US is allowing other nations like Russia to support Iranian weapons defense programs. I read an article out of France the other day that said that the US was encouraging Russia to provide Iran with missles. In my view, this is to encourage a confrontation between Israel and the rest of the middle east.

 

This is going to get very serious very fast. We already have military training police in domestic weapons confiscation of citizens. We have "practice" emergencies where some emergency situation is manufactured so that people get used to being directed by men in black suits... quarantining.. commanding... without question.

 

The people in power are rotten- not all, but the ones who have the most clout. And the disturbing thing is that many can't beleive it. Looking at EVERY single government in history, we can see that they are always out for their own good.. things start off well after a revolution or a coop, but as the years go by, things get worse and the corruption deepens.

 

Look at the fiat currency system. Look at the drug pushing. There is even a move to make over the counter vitamins (like vitamin C) available by prescription only. This is already the case in countries like austrailia where you can only purchase low doses of vitamin without a prescription. if you want more, you have to buy the drug company's vitamin c. For people like me who take at least 1000mg of vitamin c per day, this is not good news. They want to limit all of the good vitamins. They want people to be sick. It's good for business.

 

We have police murdering citizens throughout the country with no real consequences. Constitutional rights are ignored. The government controls the media. Trackable cell phones, cars, and eventually forced mircochipping. Cameras on all major expressways and city conrners. Those in london know how it is. The goal is total control of society. This is not new to the US and it is not new to history. The most dangerous part is that the technology we have now makes the control grid much much tighter. We have capabilities that soviet russia would salivate over.

 

Check out the alternative media. Listen to the "crazy people" because not all of them are crazy. Don't be fooled by the propaganda machine. Prepare for the worst.

 

It's almost too much. The only way I can stay sane is to chant Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

[gHari]

aw thinks they want nukes cuz the sunni's got nukes. Who else is nutz enough to use 'em?

[Aeshma]

Hi, just here to chat.

 

The Neoconservative agenda was pretty clearly laid out in the Project for the New American Century. Of course they want global hegemony. Essentially, they are an imperial power. Whether or not this is bad, per se, well. I don't know. I don't know the minds of the men and women at work bringing this particular harvest to fruit. It certainly doesn't feel particularly beneficial to me myself, but it could be that acquiring all of these resources is to fuel the "American" way of life. (For just a little longer.)

 

What you are facing in the states: if the material comforts are not presented to the people, they will blame those they deem to be in charge. So power is lost. Having a multiparty system is, to an extent, mitigates this effect, because the parties take the blame, yet the system remains intact. In this sense, it's design is quite ingenious. However, if the loss of comforts becomes sustained, then the system itself will be thrown down. (Comfort is, of course, a relative thing, western society has become accustomed to a high degree of comfort indeed, paired with a powerful sense of entitlement and the belief that the individual is capable of causing change in and of itself, makes an unstable situation at best.)

 

Oh where was I.

 

Ah yes. War with Iran. It's about energy, of course. A conflict has been brewing for several decades now. It will surface in some form. Despite our relatively high degree of privilege, none of us likely have any real influence amongst the movers and the shakers. No sense fearing it. Consider this an opportunity to acquaint yourself with death. The sanitization of death in modern society has resulted in a number of problems; perhaps something suitably horrific would be good for the west on a spiritual level. For everyone else, of course, business as usual.

[mahak]

I do. I want to be the wartime president. Where, dont matter. I want war so folks dont know how to live without it. I want fear to rest in america so that they will allow me to make war with whoever I want. I want war with Iran because this last straw will break my subjects of this holy american empire will to think bavck on that rag those liberals dubbed the constitooshun.

 

I want a neoconstitution, so I can go to war with anyone I want, even if 85 percent of my subjects think I need to have court approval (which, BTW, I got anyway) or legislative authority (which Ill keep because those dems are trying to be just like me, and I can sink em anyway with just three words, guns, gays, and god). I want war with china and russia, too, and mexico wants to be USA, and Canada can be, too, if they just give up hockey and good 7% beer, otherwise, well go to war with them too. Hell, well go to war with america too. Waco, Philadelphia, we can bomb entire cities, call em insurgent terrorists, and my beloved pulpit people will cheer in the streets, I want war.

 

Hell, if it twernt for 9-11, wherd eye bee anyway.

 

Bye, like yer site, vot for us, stay the course, GW Bush

[mahak]

This is why we want war with Iran. This is why we went to war with Iraq. The world has madmen with weapons of mass destruction, who have no morality, they kill the innocent, have nuclear capabilities, have stockpiled chemical and biological war agents, even possess unknown technologies of mass destruction and have resolve to use without consultation and as a first strike. The madmen have assured that their government approves of such action in violation of all treaties. Oh, by the way, the madmen live in DC.

 

mahak

[stonehearted]

[stonehearted]

(Nuts--didn't work)

[suchandra]

[Bhakta Don Muntean]