desired activities

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On 25 Jun 2002, Shyamasundara das wrote:

 

> We should remember that the last of the 9 items of devotional service is

> "atma nivedanam" offering one's self to the Lord. This is what Arjuna did,

> he offered all his work, his very being to become an instrument of the Lord.

> The teaching of the Gita and all Bhagavat literature is how to mold our

> whole life as an offering to Lord Krsna. Indeed, in my first text to which

> Mother Urmila originally responded I showed how a woman by following in the

> footsteps of Arjuna, by offering all of her work in the familiy as an

> offering to Lord Krsna will get exactly the same result as did Arjuna. That

> means her whole life becomes an offering to Lord Krsna--that is atma

> nivedanam.

 

Please accept my obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

 

Yes. Point? I assume the point is that "desired" activites cannot be

whimsical. Certainly they cannot. For example, in the quote I gave from NOD,

Prabhupada says we may engage in the nine processes according to our taste.

So, we have the "ordinary" duty of Bhagavatam class, but may also desire to

attend a VIHE extended class. It is not required, and as long as such

attendance doesn't conflict with our ordinary duties, we can do it.

 

Or, a woman has her ordinary household duties, but may desire to embroider the

border of the window curtains. Her husband may not have asked her to do it,

nor is it necessary, but as long as such doesn't interfere with her other

duties and her husband is at least agreeable, she can do it.

 

I am confused as to why the category of desired activities is a point of

discussion at all, frankly.

 

 

 

 

>

>

> Just as a boy's guna may or may not be the same as the father the same will

> hold true for the girl. A girl coming from an aristocratic family may turn

> out to be a raksasi (Indira Gandhi), and a girl coming from a fisherman's

> family may turnout to be a jewel (Satyavati). Hence Canakya Pandit says:

>

> "One can pick up gold even from a filthy place, marry a good girl even from

> a bad family, and take good advice even from a fool."

>

>

>

> >

> > Re. Devahuti- she was raised in a ksatriya environment. Whether or not she

> > also had a sattvic nature/guna according to astrology we can only guess

> > but because she was *chaste*, she was raised to the status of brahmani.

> > I'm not saying "a woman's varna is designated by birth" either because you

> > are defining varna differently. I agree that a woman's guna-based nature

> > may not be exactly the same as her parents but I don't agree that her

> > astrological horoscope be equated with real varna. Varna means

> > occupational duty and, scripturally speaking, it refers to men.

>

> >From an astrological view point we could say that such and such girl would

> be a good match for a brahmana, or a Ksatriya, etc. Not because she is a

> Brahmana, but because she has good sattvik disposition, religious, pious,

> respects Brahmanas, etc. She will not do Brahminical work, the man will do

> the brahminical work. Varna = guna + karma, not guna alone.

 

Wonderful points. I would say we are making *exactly, exactly* the same point,

but using different terminology. Women have different natures, on their own

account, which may or may not be the same nature as their father and mother

and which will, in a sane society, be a major factor in deciding whom they

marry. They should marry someone of the same nature.

 

 

 

>

>

> >

> > Yes, any woman should be able to mold to any man if he becomes her

> > husband. This is why we honour the stories of Sukhanya and Cyavana Muni,

> > Nala-Damayanti, and Gandhari. Once she has been trained in a "varna" as

> > you believe they should, other than what the scriptures deliniate, it'll

> > be much harder to chastely work in the mood of her husband's assistant.

> > She will want to act in her own independent career and disguise it as her

> > desired devotional service. Is this what Prabhupada taught? Please show me

> > where.

 

Straw man argument. I have never said that a woman should be trained as a man

is trained. A woman's primary training should be in chastity and obedience to

male authority. She should also be trained according to her qualities, of

course...don't all good parents do that?

 

If by her karma a woman is married to a man who is not truly suitable for her,

then she is supposed to adjust. Such a situation is one that the guardians try

to avoid, according to the purports I posted elsewhere from Srila Prabhupada.

 

 

 

>

> Rather than say Varna just substitute Guna. It is axiomatic that females

> have Guna, they can not be without Guna. But by definition in BG 4.13

> Varna=Guna + Karma. The karmic duties of the 4 varnas are not assigned to

> women only to men.

 

Here I respectfully submit that perhaps you could consider that perhaps in

Vedic society, even pre-industrial society, that women did, indeed, have

karmic/economic duties that were suitable for their guna, and would be in

complete harmony with the texts that the fortunate and pious Sita quotes

below. It was when I studied such through history that much of what Prabhupada

was saying about women made sense to me.

 

An example--a sudra man works at tanning leather and making items from the

leather. His sudra wife not only cooks, cleans, and takes care of the

children, but may also help him collect the tanning chemicals from the local

trees, prepare the tanning broth, etc. She is acting as his assistant in his

activities. And, he does work around the house, too, such as yard work and

maintenance of the house.

 

Another example--a ksatriya man is ruling the country, fighting the wars, etc.

and his ksatrani wife has servants to cook, clean, and mind the children. She

manages the servants, and perhaps the royal household, and maybe she manages

the royal treasury also (Secretary of the Treasury??) Sometimes she may even

drive a battle chariot, and certainly she is involved in behind-the-scenes

diplomacy.

 

A vaisya man takes the cows out to pasture and milks them and his vaisya wife

makes the milk into so many preparations, preserves the vegetables and grains,

and so on.

 

 

 

> Sita Mataji is a credit to her good husband Jivan Mukta Prabhu who is one

> very intelligent, and may I also say a very lucky man indeed.

 

yes, and her kids are lucky too!

 

Your servant, Urmila devi dasi