Guest guest Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 My Dear Vaisnavas, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada. 1) Under Sankarsana prabhu's system one is NOT supposed to get authorized by the GBC, and therefore must be self-certified, and therefore the word 'thinks' is highly appropriate. We only have his word for the fact that in the early 80s he was already qualified to act as Diksa Guru, because HE thought he knew the 'Science of Krishna'. Neither can he claim he was 'self-effulgent' at that time, for he definitely was not self-effulgent to the whole GBC or ISKCON in the early 80s. 2) Sankarsana prabhu has already stated that the GBC are deviating from Srila Prabhupada's order by not allowing him since the early 80s to act as a Diksa Guru even though he knew the 'science of Krishna'. There is no instruction from Srila Prabhupada stating that we must follow the GBC even when they are deviating from Srila Prabhupada's order. Thus Sankarsana prabhu must find another excuse to justify why he deviated from Srila Prabhupada's order in this regard, and instead chose to co-operate with a deviant GBC. (Samba Prabhu has already made this false argument more than once - that we must follow the GBC even they are deviating from Srila Prabhupada's order - and each time I have asked him to provide a quote to back up his argument, it has been met with silence.) 3) It is nice that Sankarsana prabhu feels he can agree with me. I simply ask that he remember what it is he has agreed with, and not suddenly try and fault-find me for doing things which he has already said he agrees with i.e. sharing our feelings and laughing and crying with us in regards to the contents of BTP. Thank you, Your servant, Krishnakant Sankarshan Das Adhikari [sda (AT) UltimateSelfRealization (DOT) com] Sunday, February 15, 2004 8:49 AM Bhakti Charu Swami; Bir Krishna Goswami; Danavir Goswami (USA); Jayadvaita Swami; Jayapataka Swami (GBC); Purnacandra (das) ACBSP; Isvara (das) GGS (Vrindavana - IN); Krishna Priya (dasi) (Amsterdam - NL); Krishnakant; Mahashakti dasa; Rama Kesava (das) BVTS (Edinburgh - UK); Ramakanta (das) HKS (PAMHO.NET SysOp) (Zurich - CH); Samba (das) SDG; Sankarshan Das Adhikari; Sravana dasi (Shantipur - NL); Sudama das; Tripada (das) (Split - HR); Initiations in ISKCON Reply to Sriman Krishna Kant's points My Dear Vaisnavas, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada. I didn't say "thinks" they know. Krishna Kant is putting words into my mouth. The person must actually know the science of Krishna. It's not actually me who is saying this is Prabhupada's position. It is Prabhupada who is saying that it is his position. I waited many years before initiating because Srila Prabhupada personally told me to obey the GBC. How can I be blamed for following Srila Prabhupada's instruction? I am supposed to follow all of his instructions not just the ones I pick and choose. The fact that I can empathize with Krishna Kant on certain points is the proof that I am not harboring any closed-mindedness or prejudice. I am always a lover of truth wherever I find it. That's why when Krishna Kant is right I can agree with him and when he is wrong I can disagree with him. Hoping this meets you in good health, Always your humble servant, Sankarshan Das Adhikari ==================================================== Contact Information: Ph: 1-512-835-2121 Mail: ISKCON, 10700 Jonwood Way, Austin, Texas 78753 USA irm [irm (AT) iskconirm (DOT) com] Saturday, February 14, 2004 7:37 PM 'Sankarshan Das Adhikari'; 'Bhakti Charu Swami'; 'Bir Krishna Goswami'; 'Danavir Goswami (USA)'; 'Jayadvaita Swami'; 'Jayapataka Swami (GBC)'; 'Purnacandra (das) ACBSP'; 'Initiations in ISKCON' RE: A mini review of Back to Prabhupada Issue #2 My Dear Vaisnavas, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada. 1) Sankarsana Prabhu claims that the IRM are not following Srila Prabhupada. Sankarsana Prabhu also claims that anyone who thinks they 'know the science of Krishna consciousness' is automatically authorized to become a Diksa Guru in ISKCON. The GBC's position however is that only those individuals who are authorized by themselves, via receiving the necessary number of votes, are authorized to become a Diksa Guru in ISKCON. Hence according to Sankarsana prabhu both the GBC and the IRM disagree with his position which he claims is Srila Prabhupada's position. (He also mentions how he was blocked by the GBC for almost 20 years from executing what he sees as Srila Prabhupada's order, because they follow a policy which is not what he claims Srila Prabhupada ordered.) So according to Sankarsana prabhu, the IRM are in good company in not following Srila Prabhupada! 2) Previously Sankarsana prabhu had said the following regarding stories from BTP: "One very effective propaganda technique that he employs is to give the example of one ISKCON guru after another who went astray. I have to admit I share the same disgusted feelings that Krishna Kant has in this regard. I can also laugh and cry with him about gurus flying on broomsticks, etc." (Sankarsana Prabhu, 2/11/2004) Here Sankarsana Prabhu 'admits' he also 'shares' the 'same disgusted feeling' regarding ISKCON Gurus going astray as me, examples of which are given in BTP. He himself even quotes one such example of a story from BTP 1 - Vipramukhya who is featured flying on his broomstick, and agrees that he can 'also laugh and cry' with us regarding these things. 3) He also claims that the IRM by producing this magazine are not 'absorbed in Krishna consciousness'. So here he is making exactly the SAME 'fault-finding' statement about us, which he claims we are making about the ISKCON Gurus, even though he claims he is against 'fault-finding'! This position of his is made even more contradictory by his above statement, where he admits he is happy to 'also laugh and cry' WITH the IRM regarding the contents of BTP! Thank you, Your servant, Krishnakant, Editor, 'Back To Prabhupada' Sankarshan Das Adhikari [sda (AT) UltimateSelfRealization (DOT) com] Sunday, February 15, 2004 3:43 AM Bhakti Charu Swami; Bir Krishna Goswami; Danavir Goswami (USA); Jayadvaita Swami; Jayapataka Swami (GBC); Purnacandra (das) ACBSP; Isvara (das) GGS (Vrindavana - IN); Krishna Priya (dasi) (Amsterdam - NL); Krishnakant; Mahashakti dasa; Rama Kesava (das) BVTS (Edinburgh - UK); Ramakanta (das) HKS (PAMHO.NET SysOp) (Zurich - CH); Samba (das) SDG; Sankarshan Das Adhikari; Sravana dasi (Shantipur - NL); Sudama das; Tripada (das) (Split - HR); Initiations in ISKCON A mini review of Back to Prabhupada Issue #2 My Dear Vaisnavas, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada. Although I did not request it I just received in the mail from Sudama Das issue #2 of "Back to Prabhupada." He is also listed as the publisher. It's motto is "Defeating tyranny in the realm of thought." Whereas Back to Godhead Magazine's motto is from the scriptures this magazine's motto is not. This immediately tells us something about the difference between Back to Godhead and the "Back to Prabhupada" magazine. The title of the magazine is quite appropriate. ISKCON is already with Prabhupada. We never left him, and hence we do not need to get back to Prabhupada. IRM on the other hand has veered very far away from Prabhupada and hence needs to get "Back to Prabhupada." I am hoping and praying that they will heed their own advice and get back to Prabhupada and by giving up their concocted nitwit philosophy. This magazine claims to be "The Magazine of the real Hare Krishna Movement," but we see that this magazine does not promote Krishna consciousness. The whole mood of the magazine is very negative. This is not the production of people who are absorbed in Krishna consciousness. It is the production of people who are absorbed in fault finding. Here's what Srila Prabhupada says about fault-finding: "Those who are committing sins like illicit sex, fault-finding, and unjustified violence rarely attain spiritual knowledge or realization." Renunciation Through Wisdom 2.6 --and vaisnavera guna-grahi, na dekhaye dosa kaya-mano-vakye kare vaisnava-santosa He (Pandit Haridas) always accepted the good qualities of Vaisnavas and never found fault in them. He engaged his heart and soul only to satisfy the Vaisnavas. PURPORT It is a qualification of a Vaisnava that he is adosa-darsi: he never sees others' faults. Of course, every human being has both good qualities and faults. Therefore it is said, saj-jana gunam icchanti dosam icchanti pamarah: everyone has a combination of faults and glories. But a Vaisnava, a sober man, accepts only a man's glories and not his faults, for flies seek sores whereas honeybees seek honey. Haridasa Pandita never found fault with a Vaisnava but considered only his good qualities. Caitanya Caritamrita Adi 8.62 ISKCON Solidarity ki jaya! Hoping this meets you in good health, Always your humble servant, Sankarshan Das Adhikari ----------------------- To from this mailing list, send an email to: Initiations.in.ISKCON-Owner (AT) pamho (DOT) net ----------------------- To from this mailing list, send an email to: Initiations.in.ISKCON-Owner (AT) pamho (DOT) net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 While we are on the subject of ignoring, how about this one? > [Plus Samba Prabhu cannot even phrase the question below correctly. > The disciplic succession does NOT STOP if Srila Prabhupada continues > as the Guru. By 'loading' the question in this way, Samba Prabhu is > simply assuming that which needs to be proven.] Here is the proof that the disciplic succession would cease... Predecessor acaryas | | Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura | | His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada | | STOP Why keep ignoring it? Does the disciplic succession stop or not? Your servant Samba das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 On Monday, February 16, 2004, at 03:14 pm, Samba (das) SDG wrote: >> [Plus Samba Prabhu cannot even phrase the question below correctly. >> The disciplic succession does NOT STOP if Srila Prabhupada continues >> as the Guru. By 'loading' the question in this way, Samba Prabhu is >> simply assuming that which needs to be proven.] > > Here is the proof that the disciplic succession would cease... > > Predecessor acaryas > | > | > Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura > | > | > His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada > | > | > STOP > > Why keep ignoring it? > > Does the disciplic succession stop or not? Exactly. Under rtvik-vadi you cannot have a disciplic succession - parampara - because no-one is succeeding him as guru. Ys., Rama Kesava dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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