Straightforward Anser

[Guest guest]

> Although the $1000 is an appealing prize, I think I mis-quoted the

> requirements for receiving it.

>

> Here's the actual newsletter quote:

>

> <snip>

> The problem with *Triuprari's* analysis is that it is a straightforward

> lie. There is not ONE place in Srila Prabhupada's books where Srila

> Prabhupada has stated "the necessity of taking initiation from a Guru

> who is physically present," what to speak of such a statement being

> "emphasized" repeatedly. If Tripurari or anyone else can find such a

> statement from Srila Prabhupada's books, the IRM will immediately give

> them a $1000 reward.

> </snip>

>

> I apologize for the misunderstanding. Apparently the quote needs to say

> that one must take initiation from a guru who is physically present

 

Well, here are the quotes:

 

-----------------

 

SB 3.32.42 Purport:

The bona fide spiritual master must see the bona fide qualities of a person

whom he is going to initiate. An unworthy person should not be initiated.

 

SB 3.33.6 Purport:

Usually, initiation depends on the bona fide spiritual master, who directs

the disciple. If he sees that a disciple has become competent and purified

by the process of chanting, he offers the sacred thread to the disciple just

so that he will be recognized as one-hundred-percent equal with a brahmana.

 

SB 4.8.30 Purport:

Sri Narada Muni, the supreme spiritual master, is testing Dhruva Maharaja to

see how determined he is to prosecute devotional service. This is the

process of accepting a disciple. The great sage Narada has come to Dhruva

under the direction of the Supreme Personality of Godhead just to initiate

him, yet he is testing Dhruva's determination to execute the process.

 

Bg 4.34-39 Lecture:

Therefore in the system it is enjoined that the spiritual master also

observe the disciple at least for one year, and the disciple also studies

the spiritual master at least for one year. So when both of them are

convinced that "He can be my spiritual master" or "He can be my disciple,"

then the relationship is established. We initiate our students. The

preliminary initiation is offering chanting. Then we observe at least for

one year, how he is chanting, how he is doing. Then the second initiation

confirms. That is the system.

 

SB 1.16.25 Lecture:

Therefore, in the Hari-bhakti-vilasa by Sanatana Gosvami it is directed that

the spiritual master and the disciple must meet together at least for one

year so that the disciple may also understand that "Here is a person whom I

can accept as my guru," and the guru also can see that "Here is a person who

is fit for becoming my disciple."

 

-----------------

 

I am aware that Srila Prabhupada did not meet many disciples, but IRM asked

for quotes.

 

ys Ramakanta dasa

[Guest guest]

Dear Ramakanta Prabhu

 

PAMHO. AGTSP!

 

>Where in the quotes that you provided does it explicitely say that the

>candidate becomes initiated by Srila Prabhupada? It just just "he is

>initiated", "he receives the sacred thread", "WE initiate our students".

 

The quotes I provided from Srila Prabhupada's books are describing the exact

system that was in place when Srila Prabhupada was on the planet - the

system in which he was the sole initiator. Thus if we are to properly follow

the books we would have to reconstruct the same system that was in place

when they were written. That system had Srila Prabhupada as the only

initiator. This is identical to the ritvik system.

 

It maybe argued that Srila Prabhupada was only describing the system as it

was then, not necessarily the system that was to continue in ISKCON. This

proposition, however, suffers from the following problems:

 

a) There is no mention of this relevancy restriction in the books

themselves.

 

b) The instructions are given in a generic sense, and not restricted in

applicability to any limiting time frame, i.e. - "In our Krsna consciousness

movement". There is no reason why someone receiving and reading the book now

would not conclude that this system was still operative within the "Krsna

Consciousness movement" at the present time. The only time limit implied in

Srila Prabhupada's books is the duration of the "Krsna consciousness

movement" itself.

 

c) Why would Srila Prabhupada describe a system that would only have

relevance for 2 years, in books which were to remain the standard teachings

for ISKCON, a movement which was to last for up to ten thousand years

according to Srila Prabhupada himself? (The Caitanya-caritamrta was only

fully published in 1975, with Srila Prabhupada having departed in 1977).

 

Even the GBC have never argued that these initiation instructions were only

applicable for whilst Srila Prabhupada was on the planet (unlike the July

9th order for ritviks).

 

Your servant,

Deepak

 

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