Excerpt from Bhagavad Gita As It Is defeating ritvikism

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ys Ramakanta dasa

PAMHO.NET SysOp

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Dear Ramakanta Prabhu,

 

PAMHO. AGTSP!

 

I wrote:

>>Srila Prabhupada made it clear that ANYONE who agreed to chant 16 rounds

>>and follow the 4 regulative principles would be his initiated disciple.

 

You replied:

>You provided a lot of quotes, but in none of them Srila Prabhupada said "I

initiate"

>or "we initiate". He said "is initiated".

 

 

Please note:

 

1) "Due to the necessity of these activities, WE do not immediately initiate

disciples in the International Society for Krishna Consciousness" (Cc,

Madhya, 15:108, purport).

 

(The "We" refers to Srila Prabhupada as the initiating guru, with his

disciples acting as his representatives: "In this way the disciple renders

devotional service under the guidance of the spiritual master OR HIS

REPRESENTATIVE for at least six months to a year. He is then recommended for

a second initiation, during which a sacred thread is offered and the

disciple is accepted as a bona fide brahmana." - Cc Madhya-lila 24:330,

purport)

 

2) The system described in the above quote, as well as the other quotes I

supplied, was that Srila Prabhupada was the sole initiator, using

representatives to facilitate thousands of candidates to be his initiated

disciple. There is no instruction that this system should change. Indeed,

the instructions in Srila Prabhupada's books are meant to last for the

duration of ISKCON’s lifetime - 10,000 years. So if you are to adhere

strictly to Srila Prabhupada's books, you would have to continue the exact

same system that was in operation when the books were published - namely,

the ritvik system; otherwise you would be changing the books without

authorisation from Srila Prabhupada.

 

3) Srila Prabhupada set himself up as the sole initiating guru within

ISKCON:

 

"The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I AM THE INITIATOR GURU, and

you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing

what I am doing.” (Srila Prabhupada Letter to Madhudvisa, 4/8/75)

 

"I am the spiritual master of this institution, and ALL the members of the

Society, they're supposed to be MY disciples. They follow the rules and

regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are INITIATED BY ME

spiritually." (March 12, 1968, San Francisco)

 

“The chanting of Hare Krsna is our main business, that is real initiation.

And as you are all following my instruction, in that matter, the INITIATOR

is already there.” (Srila Prabhupada Letter to Tamal Krsna, 19/8/68)

 

You wrote:

 

>If you conclude that "is initiated" means "fin the next 10,000 year

>initiated by Srila Prabhupada", then this is a circular conclusion as

>follows:

 

>1. When Srila Prabhupada said "is initiated", he meant "initiated by me"

>because at that time he was the only initiator.

 

Your statement 1 is correct (see explanation above). It is not a "circular

conclusion", as you will shortly see.

 

>2. Since by "is initiated" Srila Prabhupada meant "initiated by me", this

>means that he will be the only initiator for the next 10,000 years.

 

Your statement 2 is correct (see my points 1-3 above).

 

 

> 3. Since Srila Prabhupada will be the only initiator for the next 10,000

> years, when he said "is initiated", he meant "initiated by me". So

statement

>1 is confirmed.

 

Your statement 1 is fact. At the time Srila Prabhupada made his spoken and

published statements in his books about initiations, he was the only

initiator in ISKCON.

 

Your statement 2 - that SP will be the sole initiator in ISKCON for the

next 10,000 years - is also fact, since it is derived from statement 1; his

books are meant to be law for ISKCON, which is predicted to last for 10,000

years. By introducing a system where Srila Prabhupada is no longer the

initiator, you are changing the system he put in place in his books (and in

his final signed directive of July 9th, 1977) which are meant to be followed

for 10,000 years. Therefore, you are changing the books (and his final

signed directive).

 

Your statement 3 - that SP will be the sole initiator in ISKCON for 10,000

years - is simply the LINEAR CONCLUSION of statements 1 and 2 (or a

repetition of your statement 2). So there is no question of "circular

conclusion".

 

 

In summary:

 

Srila Prabhupada’s books are the law for ISKCON, which is meant to last for

the duration of the sankirtan movement – up to 10,000 years according to

Srila Prabhupada. The system described in his books is meant to be the

system for ISKCON, since nowhere does he say his books will cease to apply

after his departure. That system can only be a single Acarya system since

there is no mention of a multiple guru system where, after the first six

months of accepting Srila Prabhupada, you then have to choose one of 80

gurus, then get their approval, then serve for more time etc etc. The system

described by SP in his books mirrors the ritvik system perfectly – the

ritvik system he himself practised and formally instituted in ISKCON.

 

>So Mahaprabhu Caitanya Prabhu's question remains unanswered.

 

So Mahaprabhu Caitanya Prabhu's question is fully answered.

 

Ys

Deepak

 

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