Th rtvik conclusions are not supported in the Final Order

[Guest guest]

Dear Vaishnavas and Krishna Priya devi,

 

I,as a firm believer in the continuation of the

disciplic succession by the order of guru, sastra and

sadhu, do hereby refute the rtvik idea that reference

in the Final Order to the phrase by His Divine Grace "

When I order", was meant for a future and as yet

unfilled time frame. The term " When I order" when put

back into the context of the conversation, refers to

the authority of His Divine Grace to create regular

gurus and has nothing to do with any relative time

periods. Here is an example of how that phrase is used

in common English. The father returns home and sees

his children have not obeyed his command to keep the

house clean. So in an angry tone, he says , " When I

order you to do something, you do it! ". The children

know that the order was given at a prior time and that

the father was simply reiterating his statement of

authority. Similarly, His Divine Grace is also stating

to his disciples in the Final Order that ' When I

order" means it is by my authority you shall become

regular gurus. Srila Prabhupada is reiterating that to

become a regular guru happens by his authority and as

such the authority is already there. Taken within the

context of the statement, SP is mildly chastising his

disciples for doubting his authority. Later, SP

explains that as a matter of etiquette, the disciple

should not take any direct disciples until the guru

has departed. Following perfectly the orders of Srila

Prabhupada, those who were selected as rtivks prior to

the departure of Srila PRabhuapda became regular gurus

after his departure and those disciples of the regular

gurus became grand disciples of Srila Prabhupada. It

is neither logical, practical or submissive to expect

another letter from His Divine Grace at a later date

that states now his disciples are authorized to

initiate. Thus, I have shown that the rtviks, in order

to confuse the general populace of devotees and

nondevotees, have used poor logic and adverse

reasoning to create the false notion that his Divine

Grace never gave any order for his disciples to become

regular gurus after his departure.

 

Yours in the service of Guru and Gauranga,

 

Mahashakt dasa/ ACBSP

 

--- Krishna Priya <Krishna.Priya (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote:

 

> Here follows part of one of the "spicy" articles

> found in the BTP, GBC do

> not want their members to read:

>

>

*************************************************************************

>

> { Taken from BTP Issue 4, page 5}

>

> In 1995, the GBC in their wisdom decided to issue a

> definite document on the

> Guru issue for ISKCON titled: "Gurus and Intitiation

> in ISKCON (GBC,

> 1995),[Henceforwerd to be referred to as GII]. Part

> of this document was a

> paper entitled "On My Order Understood", in which

> the GBC attempted to

> explain once and for all what Srila Prabhupada's

> orders were for how

> initiations in ISKCON would continue after his

> physical departure. The GBC

> said of this paper:

> "The GBC approves of the paper entitled 'On My Order

> Understood" which

> establishes as ISKCON law the final siddhanta on

> Srila Prabhupada's desire

> for continuing the disciplic succession after the

> departure of His Divine

> Grace." [GII, p.1)

> ..................

> "The Final Order", the definite position paper of

> the IRM documenting Srila

> Prabhupada's position as the Diksa Guru for ISKCON,

> was written specifically

> in response to the above GBC paper, taking it as its

> reference point,.......

> TFO then goes to dismantle the arguments put forward

> in GII.

>

> After 8 long years, the GBC have finally admitted

> that their so-called

> 'final siddhanta' paper, the main target of the

> TFO's attack was not only

> not final, but completely bogus, as the following

> resolution passed this

> year (2004) at the GBC meetings states:

>

> 409. Continuing the Disciplic Succession

> [statement]

>

> WHEREAS:

> The paper "On My Order Understood" contains

> assumptions and assertions

> that, in numerous places, do not match the available

> evidence from the

> statements of Prabhupada.

> And the GBC desires to make a more concise

> statement,

> RESOLVED:

> "On My Order Understood" is replaced as official

> GBC policy by the

> following statement:

>

> The GBC officially accepts the following conclusions

> about continuing the

> disciplic succession:

>

> Srila Prabhupada consistently said that his

> disciples would themselves

> become spiritual masters. Guru, sadhu and shastra

> all support this standard

> way of continuing the disciplic succession. Srila

> Prabhupada said that his

> disciples would become "regular Gurus" and that each

> of their disciples

> would thus be a "disciple of my disciple".

> On strength of our Vaisnava tradition and the

> statements of Srila

> Prabhupada, the GBC concludes that Srila Prabhupada

> intended his disciples

> to become 'regular Gurus'after he physically

> departed.

> [GBC Resolution 409,2004]

>

........................................................,

> whilst admitting that their paper is basically a

> fabrication, the GBC are

> happy to re-state the same conclusions, only this

> time with no fabricated

> quotes from Srila Prabhupada to support their

> position Rather they rest

> their whole philosophical position on just one

> piece of evidence: An

> allusion to one line which Srila Prabhupada speaks

> on a tape, and which does

> not even say what they claim. Srila Prabhupada

> states on May 28th, 1977 the

> following:

>

> "When I order you become Guru, he becomes regular

> Guru. That's all. He

> becomes disciple of my disciple".

>

> Srila Prabhupada here clearly states that Gurus will

> emerge only WHEN he

> gives an order to that effect - "When I order you to

> become guru" and as the

> GBC seem now to concede, such an order was never

> given. For this reason the

> GBC have had to fabricate the following account:

> "Srila Prabhupada said that his disciples would

> become "regular Gurus" and

> that each of their disciples would thus be a

> "disciple of my disciple".

>

> Please spot the huge difference between what Srila

> Prabhupada actually says

> and the GBC fabrication. Srila Prabhupada does NOT

> say that his disciples

> "WOULD BECOME regular Gurus". He states that only

> WHEN he orders them to

> become Guru, do they become Guru, not that they

> WOULD become Guru. And the

> authors of this latest GBC resolution have the cheek

> to say the paper it

> replaces contained - 'assertions, that in numerous

> places do not match the

> available evidence form the statements of Srila

> Prabhupada", yet we see

> their latest effort is no better.

>

> In ditching thier 'final siddhanta'paper the GBC

> have effectively admitted

> that 'The arguments and evidence which we put

> forward to reach our

> conclusion were completely wrong, and we are not

> offering any alternative

> argument or evidence, but we still want to say that

> the conclusion - that we

> be allowed to operate a Guru program replacing

> srila Prabhupada - is

> correct"

>

> Thus the GBC's programme is simply to be "Gurus at

> all cost". First they

> tried to do it by instituting the Guru Hoax part 1 -

> the zonal acharya

> system. When that failed they tried Guru Hoax part 2

> - the everyone and

> anyone can be Guru programme - justified by the now

> discarded "On My Order

> Understood" paper. This contiunual changing of

> position papers to try and

> keep the "Guru business" on the road was thoroughly

> condemned by Srila

> Prabhuapada.

>

> "So these rascals will change every year their

> theology"

> [srila Prabhupada, morning walk, LA 21/12/73

>

>

*****************************************************************

>

> ys

> KPdd

>

>

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