can someone give sastric and sadhu validations for ritvikism

January 5, 2005

> Do you think even Mpd is interested in this anymore.NO! its just a sheild

> for him, to not follow the GBC and authority of his Guru.Anyone who is

> mislead by MPd is getting cheated because he/she wants to get cheated,

> there is no bases to this whole issue. You also need not break your head

> with it anymore unless you have some doubts. If you have some doubt then

> please come over and we shall discuss and i shall try my best to clear

> them.

That's a good point. Ritvikism is just a smoke-screen Mpd uses to hide

behind so he undisturbed can usurp ISKCON funds for his own purposes. And we

are speaking crores of rupees here, that he has taken complete control over.

The ritvik issue is not at all a philosophical issue. How can it be, when

there is no evidence for it in guru, sadhu and sastra?

The only ones who have blown it up to be so, was first Nityananda in his

Vedic Village Review, who in his envy did it with the sole purpose of

destroying the GBC, and now it is Mpd in Bangalore who adds fuel to the

ritvik smolders, and keeps doing it, even long after they have died down. He

is using he ritvik issue to divert the attention of the general mass of

devotees away from the fact, that he is busy stealing ISKCON's property.

Thus a lot of confused and uninformed devotees have been misled into

thinking there is some kind of philosophical schism going on in ISKCON, or

some use the ritvik issue (which is not an issue) simply to vent their own

frustrations on the GBC. Many things may be wrong in ISKCON and the GBC, but

do we really think we can help correct these wrongs by inventing bogus

philosophies? That doesn't make any sense. And if one cannot understand that

the ritvik idea is bogus and that TFO is a load of incoherent garbage, then

there is not much that can be done. But lets at least relocate the ritvik

issue to where it belongs - the garbage can.

Hare Krishna

ys, jdd

January 5, 2005

Dear MCD Prabhu

PAMHO. AGTSP.

>can someone also add Madhu Pandit Prabhu and Chanchalapati Prabhu from

>ISKCON Blore and get them to also convince us on this philosophy? Also

>please add Krishna Kant Prabhu, Sattvik Prabhu from Calcutta and other

>Ritvik adherents to please enlighten us on this issue.

The philosophy that Srila Prabhupada continues as the current spiritual

master in ISKCON is comprehensively explained in "The Final Order" (TFO), as

you well know. All you have to do is read it and in this way your desire to

become enlightened about Srila Prabhupada's instructions on ritvik

initiations will be fulfilled.

Contrary to Jahnu Prabhu's uneducated critique of TFO that it is "incoherent

garbage", ISKCON's own leading academic advisor Prof. Kim Knott stated in

the Foreword to TFO:

"It raises important theological questions concerning spiritual authority

and its transmission, the relationship of the disciple and Krishna's

representative, the guru, and the proper objects of devotional worship...

the profound issues it raises demand consideration at all levels. Every

devotee has a real stake in the matter."

So if Jahnu would like to tell the academic community that they are so

unprofessional as to recommend a work of "incoherent garbage", I'm sure they

will heed this advice from such a recognised scholar as himself.

It should also be noted that TFO, which was written **specifically in

response** to the GBC paper "Gurus and Initiations in ISKCON" (GII),

resulted last year in the GBC withdrawing its own GII paper, admitting in

the process that it both "stretches the truth" and is full of "lies". That

doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement for the GBC's philosophy on

guru-tattva, does it?

>also why is it that instead of discussing and convincing opposing

>views....they believe in throwing people out physically ...and use force

>rather than logic and arguement...is this what Srila Prabhupad taught

>us....

This is a rather sad attempt to twist the facts. I seem to recall devotees

being beaten and physically thrown out of Srila Prabhupada's temples by the

GBC for simply advocating Srila Prabhupada's final signed directive of July

9th 1977. Yes, I'm sure I'm right...

----------

ASIAN AGE: April 28, 2001

"Seventy two ISKCON Mayapur devotees were arrested by the Shakespeare Sarani

Police on charges of rowdyism on Saturday morning. They have been kept in

Police custody. Sources say that more than 250 ISKCON Mayapur devotees

barged into the ISKCON Revival Movement office on Albert Road on Friday

evening and tried to assault IRM President Adridharana Das who, they

claimed, is no more the president. Adridharana Das had filed a case against

70 ISKCON Mayapur Gurus who claimed they were the chief leaders of the

ISKCON Movement. Das said ISKCON only had one leader - Srila Prabhupada.

This has been the major bone of contention between the two factions. They

assaulted the 15 IRM devotees who lived inside the temple and held them

hostage for the entire night. They again assaulted the IRM devotees on

Saturday night."

THE TIMES OF INDIA: 15 October 2001

"Police arrested three persons from Iskcon temple in Mayapur and seized the

attendence register, in relation to a blast near the Temple on Saturday

which killed a man & injured two brothers. according to Police, Babu Ghose

was making crude bombs near the temple compound when one of them went off

accidentaly killing him on the spot & injuring two others. Initially, the

temple authorities had denied any connection with the de-ceased or the

injured but on Sunday admitted that Ghose was a group D staff."

(other reports not included due to space limitations).

>if a philosophy is right...then its practitioners will have exemplary

>behaviour...

Quite so.

>..and did not physically assault or cause to assault Chand Kazi...he also

>did not file cases against any devotee or non devotee to harass them....

Unfortunately, it is too late now for Suresvara Das, the Calcutta devotee

who took his own life after being framed in what turned out to be a false

rape allegation in which certain ISKCON members were implicated.

>Let Truth Prevail..and let cowards and wrongdoers beware and keep away

Well you can't have the truth by twisting facts, or by framing and beating

devotees, or by promoting a philosophy which you later secretly admit was a

pack of lies (GBC paper above-mentioned).

So if MCD Prabhu, you would like to continue our philosophical discussion

which you somewhat unceremoniously abandoned mid-stream in October 2004, I

would be happy to continue. (Please note that I can physically only discuss

with one person at a time, namely MCD if he wishes, and will therefore not

be responding to any other posters on this Forum - unless MCD wishes to

nominate someone else to take his place. Thank you).

Your servant,

Deepak

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January 5, 2005

Instead of being in a fighting mood we should simply all accept

all the instructions of Srila Prabhupada. This will solve

everything. We don't need anyone to redefine Srila Prabhupada's

instructions because his books are crystal clear.

Krishnapriya dd [Krishnapriya.dd (AT) pamho (DOT) net]

Wednesday, January 05, 2005 7:25 AM

Anukulya Keshava (das) JPS (Bangalore - IN); ashesha govinda das(iskcon

blore); Deepak Vohra; Jahnu (Dvipa das JPS) (Mayapur - IN); K.S. Mahesh

Cc: Bhanu Swami (Madras - IN); Kavicandra Swami (GBC Japan); Jasomatinandan

(das) ACBSP (Gujarat - IN); Krsnadasa Kaviraja (das) ACBSP (Toronto - CA);

Mukunda Datta (das) ACBSP (BBT Govardhan); Acintya Caitanya (das) JPS

(Bangalore - IN); Dayaram (das) JPS (Mayapur - IN); Narahari (das) JPS

(Bangalore - IN); Ratnavali (dd) JPS (JPS Office Mayapur - IN); Sarvajna

Krishna(das)JPS(Chennai,Moscow Temple Project); Tusti Mohan Krsna (das) JPS

(JPS Off. MYR-IN); Vaikuntha Pati (das) JPS (JPS Office Mayapur - IN);

Vibhav Krishna (das) JPS (Bangalore - IN); Vidvan Gauranga (das) JPS

(Mayapur - IN); Vishal Gauranga (das) JPS (Bangalore - IN);

mantraguru9 ; gangreg ; ard (AT) iskconbangalore (DOT) org;

vyasapuja (AT) iskconbangalore (DOT) org; Initiations in ISKCON

can someone give sastric and sadhu validations for ritvikism

<<<<And if one cannot understand that

the ritvik idea is bogus and that TFO is a load of incoherent garbage, then

there is not much that can be done. But lets at least relocate the ritvik

issue to where it belongs - the garbage can.>>>>>

>From Deepak's reply to MCD, which is also applicable to the above:

***