Vedic Cosmology debate

[Guest guest]

Dear Prabhus

 

Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila

Prabhupada!

 

I have read the debate between Guranga Premananda Prabhu and Madhu Gopal

Prabhu with Danavir Maharaja based on his book "Vedic Cosmology."

 

In my estimation the debated stated off on the wrong foot altogether with a

completely incorrect assumption.

 

Guranga Premananda Prabhu starts of by stating:

 

"The main point made in `Vedic Cosmology" is that the 18 quadrillion yojanas

statement of Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur given in Sri Caitanya Caritamrta (CC)

Madhya Lila, chapter 21, text 84, is describing half of the universe

including the layers."

 

However this is not the main point of "Vedic Cosmology" at all. Maharaja has

titled his book "Brahmanda Saksat Tika" and the meaning he has given for

this is "Vedic Cosmology taken literally."

 

So the real issue is are we to accept the statements of the

Srimad-Bhagavatam literally "as it is" or should we accept them as simply

allegorical stories that are open to be interpreted in any non-literal way

that we can conjure up in our imagination?

 

BST has been written in response to a book by Sadaputa Prabhu which proposes

various non-literal interpretations of the Bhagavatam cosmology which are

nothing but products of his imagination.

 

So there are many devotees, myself included, who are very disturbed by this

suggestion that the Bhagavatam should not be taken literally and that we are

free to concoct various non-literal interpretations of the text of the

Bhagavatam.

 

This is the real issue.

 

As far as the Vedic Planetarium is concerned Srila Prabhupada has ordered us

to build it according to the information given in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. And

I have read the Bhagavatam many times and it is very clearly stated in many

places and Prabhupada confirms it in his purports also that the inside of

the universe is four billion miles across. If one would take the time to

type "four billion miles" into the folio he will see the diameter of the

universe is stated to be four billion miles twenty one times. So if we are

to build a Planetarium based on the Bhagavatam cosmology we have to accept

such a basic point as the diameter of the universe...

 

I am not surprised that there may be some differences in the information

presented in the Bhagavatam and in other Vedic astrology and astronomy

texts.

 

It is very important to understand what we are dealing with here. What we

are dealing with is predictive models. Even an honest Western scientist or

astronomer will agree that he does not actually know how far away the stars

are or exactly what the galaxies are. They will tell us they have a model, a

predictive model, and that model is successful to a certain extent in

predicting what they observe in the sky. The more accurately the model

predicts what they observe, then the more useful the model is and the more

faith they have in it. But an honest and thoughtful scientist will not claim

that the model, even though it is very good at predicting the behavior of

the system, is necessarily an accuratate description of how the system

works.

 

So in India there are a number of models of the solar system used for

different purposes and their utility is their ability to predict the

positions of the various planets and constellations that are important in

astrological calculations. The purpose of these models is not necessarily to

actually depict the exact operation of the universe, but to provide a means

of calculating the position of various heavenly objects at certain points in

time. We can be sure that the model of the universe we have in the West has

its counterpart in India.

 

Although this principle, that science does not clam to actually know very

much about the universe at all--all they have is a predictive model--is

fairly well known among thoughtful scientists, the general population tend

to accept scientific theories as fact. And that is a great mistake.

 

If we can present a "predictive model" based on the information given to us

by the Srimad-Bhagavatam and display it in such a way that the people can

see the exact same view of the sky they are familiar with and can then see

how that vision is created, according to the Bhagavatam perspective, and see

how radically different it is from what they have come to accept through

science, it will be a very dramatic presentation. It will make people think

and question how valuable is this knowledge we have got through science

anyhow? And that is the point. Ultimately we can not get any perfect

knowledge through our imperfect senses. We will never be able to understand

how the universe works through our imperfect senses. Real knowledge has to

be received from a perfect authority.

 

Therefore I do not expect that necessarly the information in the

Surya-siddhanta will tally exactly with the information in the

Srimad-Bhagavatam. However it is the order of Srila Prabhupada that we build

the planetarium based on the information in the Srimad-Bhagavatam.

 

So as far as I have understood it Srila Prabhupada's concept of the Vedic

planetarium is to show the people how imperfect the knowledge we have

gathered through our imperfect senses is and how valuable the real knowledge

in the Bhagavatam is.

 

We have to have faith in the Bhagavatam and faith in Srila Prabhupada. For

example if the Bhagavad-gita, the Bhagavatam and Srila Prabhupada say there

is only one sun in the universe and the stars are like the Moon, that is the

way it is. If we get information from a perfect source that contradicts the

understanding of the universe we have from modern science that gives us the

hint that modern science is wrong.

 

We have already seen Sadaputa Prabhu and Drutakrama Prabhu take a hint from

the Bhagavatam and research that hint and prove that one of the most

fundamental, basic beliefs of modern science is completely wrong. The theory

that things evolve from a very primitive form to a more advanced form by the

process of natural selection is a very highly esteemed scientific principle.

Sadaputa Prabhu and Drutakrama Prabhu got the hint from Srila Prabhupada and

the Bhagavatam that this is not actually a fact. In reality Lord Brahma is

the first-born person within the universe and he is the most advanced, the

most evolved creature. So the idea that things gradually evolve from a

primitive form to a more advanced form by chance is completely wrong.

 

So this is just one instance where we can take some information from the

Bhagavatam and use it to show that ideas that are almost universally

accepted are completely wrong. And it is not just on the point of evolution

that modern science is completely wrong. There are so many points. And we

can find the real information in the Bhagavatam.

 

So overall the discussion you have had with Maharaja has completely missed

the point of his book. The point of his book is that the Bhagavatam should

be taken literally and that is what Prabhupada wants us to do. Take it "as

it is."

 

There is no scope in the teachings of Srila Prabhupada for us to interpret

the Bhagavatam in a non-literal manner. He orders us to accept it "as it is"

so we have to do that. And we will not make a mistake doing that.

 

There is a great treasure house of real scientific knowledge in the

Srimad-Bhagavatam. We should take advantage of it...

 

Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

 

Your servant

 

Madhudvisa dasa