RE: Why I Am Accepting Disciples on Prabhupada's Behalf as My

[Guest guest]

Srila Prabhupada didn't say we had to be fully realized

to act as guru. He did say though that we had to be

strictly obedient. Considering myself unfit I am initiating

disciples on his behalf although they (according to his

instruction) are considered "my" disciples. Ultimately

none of us are to think that anything or anyone is ours. Nirmama.

Nothing is mine. Everything is the property of Krishna.

 

 

 

 

 

Krishna Priya (dasi) (Amsterdam - NL) [Krishna.Priya (AT) pamho (DOT) net]

 

Saturday, January 08, 2005 7:27 AM

Sankarshan Das Adhikari

Why I Am Accepting Disciples - Okay, but do it as RITVIK

 

<<<<My spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada, taught me how to become a

completely surrendered disciple who accepts whatever instruction received

from my spiritual master as my very life and soul. This is the standard for

the guru/disciple relationship. Accepting a guru is not like getting a pet

dog that you pat on the head and he wags his tail. Guru means that place

where you fully surrender yourself.>>>>

 

 

My dear godbrother Sankarsan prabhu,

 

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

As a sister loves her brother/sister, I love all the sons and daughters of

My spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada. You are all dear to me, because you

are dear to Srila Prabhupada.

 

And I can understand the words above. I believe you when you say that you

have been "taught to become a completely surrendered disciple who accepts

whatever instruction he received from the spiritual master. I think you

became guru, because you thought it would be the best way for you to serve

Srila Prabhupada.

 

 

<<<<Before meeting Srila Prabhupada I had been seeking a means of fully

surrendering myself unto the will of God. The difficulty I was having was

that I did not know what that will was. When I learned that God's will is

revealed through the form of the orders received from the bona fide

spiritual master, it was the dawning of an entirely new enlightened reality

for me. I then placed myself fully under his orders and instructions as his

eternal servant.>>>>

 

I am touched by your words and honesty of heart.

 

<<<,After I came to this fully surrendered position at his lotus feet I

learned from him the principle that the one who is now the disciple becomes

the next spiritual master. Therefore since my Guru Maharaja, Srila

Prabhupada, is now departed from this world it is my duty to keep the chain

of disciplic

succession going by accepting disciples. This is not a matter of pride of

egotism. I personally consider myself unfit to be a spiritual master, but

it is my duty to do so on behalf of Srila Prabhupada to keep the

guru/disciple legacy going strong into the future just as it has been going

on since the beginning of the universe.>>>>.

 

 

But, I can understand that you and the other devotees did not understand

perhaps, how it was possible to continue the parampara, by using Ritviks,to

initiate on behalf of Srila Prabhupada. When Srila Prabhupada left us

physically, how long had the oldest Hare Krishna devotee been for in the

movement? At the most 12 years........Can we expect them to have become

advanced, fully realised devotees at that time? No! It is not possible for

ordinary beings to become purified like that. So, it is understandable that

the deep and profound decision of Srila Prabhupada, to not have his

disciples succeed him as guru, but continue to represent him as Ritvik had

not been understood........Hence, the first eleven Ritviks thought they were

somehow 'magically spiritually transformed into Mahabhagavata's. I guess

they truly believed this in the naivety of their spiritual youth, love for

spiritual master and enthusiasm to expand Krishna Consciousness. And that it

must been utterly painful to realise that they were one after the other, not

on tha paramahamsa stage, rather far from it..........

In order to lower the profile, they agreed to allow other godbrothers to

become guru, eventually this is threathening to lead to an open invitation

to anyone to become Diksha Guru, with or without the permission of the GBC.

 

There may be some individuals who are extrmely strict in sadhana, who could

act as guru, without having a slip but Srila Prabhupada did not expect this

to happen so quickly. He gave us a method of Initiation, which was to ensure

the smooth ongoing of the movement and naturally maturing of our devotees.

 

Please understand that it is in the interest of Srila Prabhupada's Movement,

for the world at large and ultimately the whole universe, that you realise

that Srila Prabhupada wanted you to be Guru, preaching, inspiring and

guiding his disciples. But he did not authorise any of us to succeed him on

the seat of ACHARYA/Diksa Guru of ISKCON. Because only he is qualified and

fully capable to deliver all the members of the Hare Krishna Movement back

to Krishna. Anyone who comes to this movement comes because of being

attracted by the Krishna Conscious philosphy and lifestyle presented by

Srila Prabhupada. He is our GURU. Who else has then the right to claim to be

Our ETERNAL GURUDEVA?

 

It is not befitting anyone to call themselves the DIKSA GURU of any of Srila

PRABHUPADA'S disciples, including yourself. You were not supposed to

initiate independant from Srila Prabhupada, but on behalf of Srila

Prabhupada, as his Ritvik, his representative.

 

This is just plain truth. Accepting which you will give "your socalled

disciples" to Srila Prabhupada and the other gurus in Iskcon should do the

same. But will you and will they? Or will you fight till the end,just to

maintain this label of "diksa guru" for yourselves..

 

As a mother would tell to her children, or a sister to her brothers, I am

telling all of you, begging all of you: PLEASE DO NO LONGER AVOID

UNDERSTANDING THE REAL ORDER OF OUR FATHER.

 

your servant,

Krishnapriya dasi

[Guest guest]

Dear Krishnapriya dasi,

 

Without belaboring the point and at the risk of

sounding overly critical, I simply want you to know

that your calls for Sankarshan prabhu and other gurus

to give up their disciples to Srila Prabhupada in

favor of the rtvik system strikes me as being just

plain stupid. I too am interested in a united ISKCON

but am certain that rtvik succession is an artifical

and doomed idea. You have heard from others why they

disagree with the rtvik system. You have even heard

from me. Now let me offer another obvious reason.

Because Srila Prabhupada is not here personally to

accept or reject new disciples. He must have the final

say since such disciples become his karmic

responsibility. You cannot pass on karmic

responsibility to a departed Vaishnava. To say it

differently, the idea of a fire yajna conducted by a

priest who initiates directly to Srila Prabhupada is

as riduculous as Christians who in the name of Jesus

are directly baptised and twice born. We see that such

ceremonies are practically useless and the newly

initiated Christians go on sinning in the name of

Jesus. Must Christ suffer for their sins in absentia?

Do not the rtviks condemn Srila Prabhupada to the same

fate?

So, if you really want ISKCON unification, then

please use your god given intelligence to consider how

it can be done under the present system of diksha

initiations.Simply because one is a diksha initiating

guru does not mean that he is or suddenly has become

an uttama adhikari. Neither does every advanced

devotee have to become a diksha guru. Furthermore,

there is no requirement that every diksha guru has to

be given the celebration of a pure devotee. It would

be much better,imo, for guru and disciple alike if

there was no special or extraordinary worship involved

in their relationship ( ie, daily guru puja, special

guru pranam mantra, guru appearance day, glorifying

guru's place of birth, addressing guru as His Divine

Grace, etc). In this way, Srila Prabhupada is never

eclipsed from our vision. I find that those diksha

gurus who follow this example are the true gurus

because their real interest is not name and fame but

service. It is this karmic responsibility that the

rtvik system would care to obliterate but that some

ISKCON gurus lovingly accept. This may not be our past

or present standard but it can be. Better we work with

the eternal diksha system set up by the Lord and

passed down by his pure devotees, then concoct

something new as a solution to our present guru

problems. If you care to refute this letter, then

please stay on topic and address the issue of karma

and how the rtvik system handles the karma of the

newly initiated disciple.

 

Yours in the service of Guru and Gauranga,

 

Mahashakti dasa/ ACBSP

 

--- Sankarshan Das Adhikari

<sda (AT) UltimateSelfRealization (DOT) com> wrote:

 

> Srila Prabhupada didn't say we had to be fully

> realized

> to act as guru. He did say though that we had to be

> strictly obedient. Considering myself unfit I am

> initiating

> disciples on his behalf although they (according to

> his

> instruction) are considered "my" disciples.

> Ultimately

> none of us are to think that anything or anyone is

> ours. Nirmama.

> Nothing is mine. Everything is the property of

> Krishna.

>

>

>

>

>

> Krishna Priya (dasi) (Amsterdam - NL)

> [Krishna.Priya (AT) pamho (DOT) net]

>

> Saturday, January 08, 2005 7:27 AM

> Sankarshan Das Adhikari

> Why I Am Accepting Disciples - Okay, but do

> it as RITVIK

>

> <<<<My spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada, taught me

> how to become a

> completely surrendered disciple who accepts whatever

> instruction received

> from my spiritual master as my very life and soul.

> This is the standard for

> the guru/disciple relationship. Accepting a guru is

> not like getting a pet

> dog that you pat on the head and he wags his tail.

> Guru means that place

> where you fully surrender yourself.>>>>

>

>

> My dear godbrother Sankarsan prabhu,

>

> Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to

> Srila Prabhupada.

>

> As a sister loves her brother/sister, I love all the

> sons and daughters of

> My spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada. You are all

> dear to me, because you

> are dear to Srila Prabhupada.

>

> And I can understand the words above. I believe you

> when you say that you

> have been "taught to become a completely surrendered

> disciple who accepts

> whatever instruction he received from the spiritual

> master. I think you

> became guru, because you thought it would be the

> best way for you to serve

> Srila Prabhupada.

>

>

> <<<<Before meeting Srila Prabhupada I had been

> seeking a means of fully

> surrendering myself unto the will of God. The

> difficulty I was having was

> that I did not know what that will was. When I

> learned that God's will is

> revealed through the form of the orders received

> from the bona fide

> spiritual master, it was the dawning of an entirely

> new enlightened reality

> for me. I then placed myself fully under his orders

> and instructions as his

> eternal servant.>>>>

>

> I am touched by your words and honesty of heart.

>

> <<<,After I came to this fully surrendered position

> at his lotus feet I

> learned from him the principle that the one who is

> now the disciple becomes

> the next spiritual master. Therefore since my Guru

> Maharaja, Srila

> Prabhupada, is now departed from this world it is my

> duty to keep the chain

> of disciplic

> succession going by accepting disciples. This is

> not a matter of pride of

> egotism. I personally consider myself unfit to be a

> spiritual master, but

> it is my duty to do so on behalf of Srila Prabhupada

> to keep the

> guru/disciple legacy going strong into the future

> just as it has been going

> on since the beginning of the universe.>>>>.

>

>

> But, I can understand that you and the other

> devotees did not understand

> perhaps, how it was possible to continue the

> parampara, by using Ritviks,to

> initiate on behalf of Srila Prabhupada. When Srila

> Prabhupada left us

> physically, how long had the oldest Hare Krishna

> devotee been for in the

> movement? At the most 12 years........Can we expect

> them to have become

> advanced, fully realised devotees at that time? No!

> It is not possible for

> ordinary beings to become purified like that. So, it

> is understandable that

> the deep and profound decision of Srila Prabhupada,

> to not have his

> disciples succeed him as guru, but continue to

> represent him as Ritvik had

> not been understood........Hence, the first eleven

> Ritviks thought they were

> somehow 'magically spiritually transformed into

> Mahabhagavata's. I guess

> they truly believed this in the naivety of their

> spiritual youth, love for

> spiritual master and enthusiasm to expand Krishna

> Consciousness. And that it

> must been utterly painful to realise that they were

> one after the other, not

> on tha paramahamsa stage, rather far from

> it..........

> In order to lower the profile, they agreed to allow

> other godbrothers to

> become guru, eventually this is threathening to lead

> to an open invitation

> to anyone to become Diksha Guru, with or without the

> permission of the GBC.

>

> There may be some individuals who are extrmely

> strict in sadhana, who could

> act as guru, without having a slip but Srila

> Prabhupada did not expect this

> to happen so quickly. He gave us a method of

> Initiation, which was to ensure

> the smooth ongoing of the movement and naturally

> maturing of our devotees.

>

> Please understand that it is in the interest of

> Srila Prabhupada's Movement,

> for the world at large and ultimately the whole

> universe, that you realise

> that Srila Prabhupada wanted you to be Guru,

> preaching, inspiring and

> guiding his disciples. But he did not authorise any

> of us to succeed him on

> the seat of ACHARYA/Diksa Guru of ISKCON. Because

> only he is qualified and

> fully capable to deliver all the members of the Hare

> Krishna Movement back

> to Krishna. Anyone who comes to this movement comes

> because of being

> attracted by the Krishna Conscious philosphy and

> lifestyle presented by

> Srila Prabhupada. He is our GURU. Who else has then

> the right to claim to be

> Our ETERNAL GURUDEVA?

>

> It is not befitting anyone to call themselves the

> DIKSA GURU of any of Srila

> PRABHUPADA'S disciples, including yourself. You were

> not supposed to

> initiate independant from Srila Prabhupada, but on

> behalf of Srila

> Prabhupada, as his Ritvik, his representative.

>

> This is just plain truth. Accepting which you will

> give "your socalled

> disciples" to Srila Prabhupada and the other gurus

> in Iskcon should do the

> same. But will you and will they? Or will you fight

> till the end,just to

> maintain this label of "diksa guru" for yourselves..

>

> As a mother would tell to her children, or a sister

> to her brothers, I am

> telling all of you, begging all of you: PLEASE DO NO

> LONGER AVOID

> UNDERSTANDING THE REAL ORDER OF OUR FATHER.

>

> your servant,

> Krishnapriya dasi

>

>

>

-----------------------

> To from this mailing list, send an email

> to:

> Initiations.in.ISKCON-Owner (AT) pamho (DOT) net

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

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