Guest guest Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 This "can doesn't mean can" argument is not valid. This Prabhu wants to bring in UK driving requirements to support his case. Just see. Instead of using raksasa so-called civilization to support our case we should revert to Srila Prabhupada. Here's how Srila Prabhupadas uses the word "can": "with that submissive spirit we can understand the Bhagavad-gita." Does this mean that submissive spirit gives you the ability to understand the Bhagavad-gita but not the authorization to do so? I challenge this Prabhu to show substantial cases from Srila Prabhupada's teachings in which his use of can means ability but no authorization. Guru Parampara ki jaya! May it continue unbroken for at least the next 10,000 years! failure (AT) pamho (DOT) net [failure (AT) pamho (DOT) net] On Behalf Of Madhusudana Dasa Saturday, January 15, 2005 5:22 PM Sankarshan Das Adhikari; Initiations in ISKCON Re: Ritvik Philosophy If left Unchecked Will be the Death of ISKCON In reply to Sankarshan prabhu: Who has quoted ..... "Whatever position one may have, if he is fully conversant with the science of Krishna, Krishna consciousness, he can become a bona fide spiritual master, initiator or teacher of the science." TLC, Chapter 31 My reply is the same as it was for the last quote you posted..... Here again the key words are *he can become*. How is the instruction that something can happen the same as authorising that it must? e.g. one can drive a car once one is 17 years old (in the UK). But separate qualification and then authorisation is also required. It is not automatic. Qualification and authorisation must also be there. Srila Prabhupada taught that specific authorisation from the predecessor acarya was essential before anyone could act as a diksa guru: "One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is authorised by his predecessor spiritual master. This is called diksa -vidhana." (S.B. 4.8.54, purport) The ISKCON movement is based on the teachings of Srila Prabhupada, and not the GBC. If one wants to drive a car, then this is possible for all, but only with *qualification* and *authorisation*. Ironically, these self-appointed gurus have no authorisation to act independently as initiating gurus. I can prove this, as there are no gurus in any bonafide sampradaya that have been voted into the position of a guru. I quote from Srila Prabhupada: "Guru cannot be self-made. No. There is no such single instance throughout the whole Vedic literature. And nowadays, so many rascals, they are becoming guru without any authority. That is not guru. You must be authorised. Evam parampara-praptam imam ra... As soon as the parampara is...kalena yogo nasta parantapa, immediately finished. The spiritual potency finished. You can dress like a guru, you can talk big, big words, but it will never be effective." (Srila Prabhupada Lecture, 27th February 1977, Mayapur, India) So where is the authorisation for the present ISKCON (so-called) diksa-gurus? btw. I must compliment you on a rather astute observation - that IRM (Ritvik Philosophy) will be the death of the *MAYA* ISKCON which YOU steadfastly represent. However let me assure you that ISKCON WILL flourish for the next 9,500 years, despite what certain demons try to do - to the contrary. ysmsd --- Sankarshan Das Adhikari <sda (AT) UltimateSelfRealization (DOT) com> wrote: > The ritvikvadis say that ye krsna-tattva-vetta, sei guru haya (One who > knows the science of Krishna can become a > guru) means > that one who knows the science of Krishna may become a siksa-guru or a > vartma-pradarsaka-guru but not an initiator guru. > According to > the ritvikvadis only Srila Prabhupada can be the initiator guru. > However, this interpretation is not acceptable to Vaisnavas because > according to His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada, the word guru in this > verse spoken by Lord Caitanya applies to the vartma-pradarsaka guru, > the siksa guru, and the diksha (initiator) guru as well. > > This deviant ritvik philosophy is an attempt by the personality of > Kali to bring an end to the Brahma Sampradaya. If this is ritvik > philosophy is allowed to go unchecked it will bring about the complete > destruction of ISKCON. Therefore it must quickly and thoroughly > uprooted and defeated for the sake of Lord Caitanya's mission. > The ritvikvadis call themselves the ISKCON Revival Movement when in > fact they are the ISKCON Ruination Movement. > > That the knower of the Krishna science can be an initiator guru is > confirmed by Srila Prabhupada in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya as > follows, > > "Whatever position one may have, if he is fully conversant with the > science of Krishna, Krishna consciousness, he can become a bona fide > spiritual master, initiator or teacher of the science." TLC, Chapter > 31 > > > Sankarshan Das Adhikari > 15 January 2005 > > > > > ----------------------- > To from this mailing list, send an email > to: > Initiations.in.ISKCON-Owner (AT) pamho (DOT) net > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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