Guest guest Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Erik wrote: > In a message dated 1/17/2005 2:20:20 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Jahnu (AT) pamho (DOT) net writes: > > He didn't initiate the ritvik system in the first place, so your point > > is moot. > > You need to elaborate on this please There is nothing to elaborate. You only have KK Desai's word in TFO that SP instituted a ritvik system. If you would rather learn about Srila Prabhupada from someone like KK Desai, who is a nobody in ISKCON, who never met Srila Prabhupada, who never lived in a temple, who obviously is not well versed in Vaishnava philosophy, and who definitely doesn't follow the proces of Krishna consciousness - if you would rather learn from such a person, who is further more the editor of the most offensive piece of filthy garbage, the magazine published by the ritvikvadis that goes under the name Back To Prabhupada - if you would rather learn from him instead of learning from the faithful devotees of Srila Prabhupada, especially those who were directly trained by him, then go right ahead. Who can stop you? It's up to you who you want to listen to. But maybe you can elaborate on why you have chosen to listen to someone like Krishna Kant, who is obviously not a well-wisher of ISKCON, rather than listening to the devotees of ISKCON. It would be nice for us to hear your reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Jahnu, what makes you think I am part of IRM? I have never read any of Krishna Kant's writings. You should not speculate. I read Prabhupada's books, conversations and letters and that is where I got the info about the ritvik initiations. I clearly read the ritvik instructions but have never read anywhere Prabhupada saying to end them. Please provide the instruction in Prabhupada's words. thanks Bhakta Erik In a message dated 1/18/2005 1:21:41 AM Pacific Standard Time, Jahnu (AT) pamho (DOT) net writes: > Erik wrote: > > >In a message dated 1/17/2005 2:20:20 AM Pacific Standard Time, > >Jahnu (AT) pamho (DOT) net writes: > > >>He didn't initiate the ritvik system in the first place, so your point > >>is moot. > > > >You need to elaborate on this please > > There is nothing to elaborate. You only have KK Desai's word in TFO that SP > instituted a ritvik system. If you would rather learn about Srila Prabhupada > from someone like KK Desai, who is a nobody in ISKCON, who never met Srila > Prabhupada, who never lived in a temple, who obviously is not well versed in > Vaishnava philosophy, and who definitely doesn't follow the proces of > Krishna consciousness - if you would rather learn from such a person, who is > further more the editor of the most offensive piece of filthy garbage, the > magazine published by the ritvikvadis that goes under the name Back To > Prabhupada - if you would rather learn from him instead of learning from the > faithful devotees of Srila Prabhupada, especially those who were directly > trained by him, then go right ahead. Who can stop you? It's up to you who > you want to listen to. > > But maybe you can elaborate on why you have chosen to listen to someone like > Krishna Kant, who is obviously not a well-wisher of ISKCON, rather than > listening to the devotees of ISKCON. It would be nice for us to hear your > reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 > Jahnu, > > what makes you think I am part of IRM? I have never read any of Krishna > Kant's writings. Yeah, right. > You should not speculate. I read Prabhupada's books, > conversations and letters and that is where I got the info about the > ritvik initiations. Yeah, right. > I clearly read the ritvik instructions but have never read anywhere > Prabhupada saying to end them. Yeah, right. > Please provide the instruction in Prabhupada's words. The instructions are all there in Prabhupada's teachings. Read the Point by Point refutation of the Final Order or some of the many other papers that have been written in refutation of ritvikvada. As I said, if you refuse to listen to Prabhupada's disciples and followers, and instead would rather listen to someone like KK Desai or even your own mind, then go right ahead. Who can stop you? It is up to you who you will listen to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Jahnu, PAMHO AGTSP Not everyone that is not immeshed in Iskcon is IRM, Hare Krsna Society, Pada or PSS. What has happened within Iskcon is one of my main reasons to be hesitate to hook up with any organization; Ritvik or otherwise. I do not have to belong to an organization to read Prabhupada's books and see what His true instructions are. The unchanged books that is! Until you or anyone else within Iskcon can answer with intelligence my very simple question of "When did Prabhuapda order the His ritvik system to be ended?" then I do not see any reason to banter with your childish comments of "yeah right" and the like. Why would I read some paper written by Iskcon that refutes Prabhupada's instructions? This brings to mind another question or two that I sit on the edge of my seat waiting for an answer. Why are you all so intent on hiding Prabhupada's true instructions? What is in it for you? What do you have to lose? Obviously, Iskcon of today is no longer Prabhupada's organization. It has become a sectarian church. I will not hold my breath waiting for those quotes that prove Prabhupada ordered the eleven ritviks to become diksa gurus and the prediction that suddenly there would magically be hundreds of uttama adhikaris waiting to take the hands of the devotees and bring them to the Lotus Feet of Lord Krsna. The next book change no doubt will be the addition of all these names to the disciplic succession!!! Bhakta Erik In a message dated 1/18/2005 11:45:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, Jahnu (AT) pamho (DOT) net writes: > >Jahnu, > > > >what makes you think I am part of IRM? I have never read any of Krishna > >Kant's writings. > > Yeah, right. > > >You should not speculate. I read Prabhupada's books, > >conversations and letters and that is where I got the info about the > >ritvik initiations. > > Yeah, right. > > > I clearly read the ritvik instructions but have never read anywhere > >Prabhupada saying to end them. > > Yeah, right. > > >Please provide the instruction in Prabhupada's words. > > The instructions are all there in Prabhupada's teachings. Read the Point by > Point refutation of the Final Order or some of the many other papers that > have been written in refutation of ritvikvada. As I said, if you refuse to > listen to Prabhupada's disciples and followers, and instead would rather > listen to someone like KK Desai or even your own mind, then go right ahead. > Who can stop you? It is up to you who you will listen to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Dear Bhakta Erik, PAMHO. AGTSP! > "When did Prabhuapda order the His ritvik system to be ended?" When did Prabhuapda order the ritvik system to be continued after his departure? ys Ramakanta dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 > Until you or anyone else within Iskcon can answer with intelligence my > very simple question of "When did Prabhuapda order the His ritvik system > to be ended?" You have been given the answer repeatedly, that Prabhupada didn't order a ritvik system in the first place, but you refuse to accept it, so what to do? > Why are you all so intent on hiding Prabhupada's true instructions? I'm not. >What is in it for you? I like to defend the truth against atheistic aggressions. >What do you have to lose? Nothing. > Obviously, Iskcon of today is no longer Prabhupada's organization. It > has become a sectarian church. That's your opinion, but see who is sharing it - people like Puranjana, Nityananda, Adridharan, Madhupandit and KK. Desai. Why are you so intent on sharing their opinion, when it is shared by no other Vaishnavas? If you want to follow atheistic people like KK. Desai and flaunt it in the face of the whole Vaishnava community, how are you then a Vaishnava? You can't be a Vaishnava unless you follow other Vaishnavas. You can't just do what you like because you feel like it. That's what atheists do. Vaishnavas don't do that. They have to follow. And if they don't they certainly shut up about it and don't go braying to the whole world. What the ritviks do, is that with their words they claim to be following Prabhupada, but with their activities and propaganda they are trying to smash Prabhupada's very own movement, the one he personally started to save the world. So I have a question for you in that regard: How is that following Prabhupada? > I will not hold my breath waiting for those quotes that prove Prabhupada > ordered the eleven ritviks to become diksa gurus and the prediction that > suddenly You won't accept any proof, so I guess you'll have to die from suffocation. > there would magically be hundreds of uttama adhikaris waiting to take the > hands of the devotees and bring them to the Lotus Feet of Lord Krsna. So far there is a good number of gurus in ISKCON who are taking their service seriously and helping their disciples to make advancement. That's more than what you are doing. You are not even helping your own advancement, what to speak of helping others advance in Krishna consciousness. > The next book change no doubt will be the addition of all these names to > the disciplic succession!!! Kali-yuga is an ocean of faults. Any idiot can pick out faults. Once you start it will never stop, because the faults are endless in this age. The only good thing about Kali-yuga, in fact, is that just by chanting Krishnas name one can cross over this ocean of faults. So ISKCON, despite all the faults and short-comings of its devotees, are spreading this message of Lord Chaitanya all over the world. They are doing this as their service to Srila Prabhupada. What are the ritviks doing for Prabhupada? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Dear Jahnu Prabhu, PAMHO. AGTSP! > What are the ritviks doing for Prabhupada? They publish a magazine called BTP ("Blasphemous Trash about Prabhupada"). You repeatedly wrote that they are doing that, but none of the ritviks protested. So I conclude that it is true. ys Ramakanta dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 > What are the ritviks doing for Prabhupada? They publish a magazine called BTP ("Blasphemous Trash about Prabhupada"). You repeatedly wrote that they are doing that, but none of the ritviks protested. So I conclude that it is true. ys Ramakanta dasa Trash about Srila Prabhupada? You are surely mistaken, my dear friends. BTP is simply pinpointing the cheaters, acting socalled in name of Srila Prabhupada and putting him and his movement through endless shame......! "BTP is a magazine with a perfect balance. Information, presentation of Srila Prabhupada's instructions, explanations, participation of the devotees. No fanaticism or sentimentalism. Only the truth.” quoted on behalf of all IRM devotees and to be devotees of the REAL ISKCON AND THE REAL ACHARYA OF ISKCON HIS DIVINE GRACE A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, Srila Prabhupada! Going BACK TO PRABHUPADA ONE IS SURE TO GO BACK TO GODHEAD. ys KPdd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 ALL GLORIES TO SRILA PRABHUPADA PAMHO Jahnu say's Quote: That's your opinion, but see who is sharing it - people like Puranjana, Nityananda, Adridharan, Madhupandit and KK. Desai. Why are you so intent on sharing their opinion, when it is shared by no other Vaishnavas? If you want to follow atheistic people like KK. Desai and flaunt it in the face of the whole Vaishnava community, how are you then a Vaishnava? You can't be a Vaishnava unless you follow other Vaishnavas. You can't just do what you like because you feel like it. That's what atheists do. Vaishnavas don't do that. They have to follow. And if they don't they certainly shut up about it and don't go braying to the whole world. Actually Krishna Priya "you dont"! just do what you like! You, follow Srila Prabhupada! So what's jahnu's rubbish about following other Vaisnavas?? Re-phrased jahnu means this,,(" Join the cult become a mushroom and let us think for you".) These two croaking frogs (jahnu & ramakanta) haven't produced one sensible argument! They Cannot stop Srila Prabhupada being re-instated into His rightful position! The Movement of Prabhupadanugas is gaining GREAT MOMENTUM, let these people CROAK AND CROAK until they come to their senses! ys Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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