The guru gives no proof of his authorization to initiate. Who is a

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My Dear Prabhupadanugas,

Please accept my obeisances.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

These ritviks are claiming that we are not bona fide spiritual masters

and they want us to prove that we are, if we are to continue initiating

disciples. Even though Srila Prabhupada insructed us to become initiating

gurus in Mayapur, and even though I was personally encouraged to become a

guru

and even given pointers by Srila Prabhupada on how to become a guru they

want to know the exact quotes so that through word jugglery they can

dismantle it.

 

It's interesting to note in this connection that the bona fide spiritual

master does not tell how he received the authorization to initiate

disciples.

He simply tells that a guru becomes a guru when he is ordered by his

spiritual

master. That's all.

 

This is illustrated by the following conversation of Srila Prabhupada:

 

Indian man: When did you become the spiritual leader of Krishna

consciousness?

Prabhupada: What is that?

Brahmananda: He's asking when did you become the spiritual leader of Krishna

 

consciousness?

Prabhupada: When my Guru Maharaja ordered me. This is the guru-parampara.

Indian: Did it...

Prabhupada: Try to understand. Don't go very speedily. A guru can become

guru when he's ordered by his guru. That's all. Otherwise nobody can become

guru.

Indian woman 2: (Hindi)

Prabhupada: (Hindi) Sadhi mam prapannam. "I am surrendered to You. Whatever

You say, I shall carry out." That's all.

Indian man: When did he tell you to...?

Prabhupada: What is the business, when did he tell me? And why shall I

disclose

to you? It is so very insignificant thing that I have to explain to you?

Indian man: No, I am just curious when...

Prabhupada: You should be curious within your limit. You should know that

one

can become guru when he is ordered by his guru, this much.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 7.2 -- Nairobi, October 28, 1975

 

On the other hand if the guru is bogus, if he not authorized to initiate

disciples,

then he will not be able to tell how he got the authorization to initiate

disciples.

 

So either way no proof is given.

 

If no proof is given then how will we know who is a bona fide spiritual

master?

This answer is given by Srila Prabhupada as follows:

 

It is said, phalena pariciyate: one is recognized by the result of his

actions.

In Vaisnava society there are many types of Vaisnavas. Some of them are

called

gosvamis, some are called svamis, some are prabhus, and some are prabhupada.

 

One is not recognized, however, simply by such a name. A spiritual master is

 

recognized as an actual guru when it is seen that he has changed the

character

of his disciples.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Antya 3.143

 

So the conclusion is:

 

The guru gives no proof of his authorization to initiate. Who is a bona fide

 

guru is judged by the result of his actions. That is the proof.

 

Hoping this meets you in good health and in a cheerful mood,

Your eternal servant,

 

Sankarshan Das Adhikari

 

 

 

 

failure (AT) pamho (DOT) net [failure (AT) pamho (DOT) net] On Behalf Of Madhusudana

Dasa

Wednesday, January 19, 2005 7:14 AM

Sankarshan Das Adhikari

Cc: Initiations in ISKCON

Re: Toy Firetruck

 

Dear Prabhu

 

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

So are you now claiming that this quote from the Nectar of Devotion (written

about 500 years ago by Rupa Goswami) is how YOU got your authorization to be

a diksa guru?

 

Also "one who follows strictly the order of Lord Caitanya to preach Krishna

consciousness IS a spiritual master" - yes but don't forget - diksa guru

MUST be authorised by the previous acarya.

 

If "a child who is playing with his toy firetruck" can defeat you so easily.

 

Then just see YOUR position!

 

Self-realization?

 

ys

Madhusudana dasa