The guru gives no proof of his authorization to initiate. Who is

[Guest guest]

Dear Prabhu

 

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

Just see how desperate this guy Sankarshan is. He

forwarded, this, and that, etc. as proof of his

bona-fides regarding his authorization from Srila

Prabhupada to be diksa-guru.

 

"One should take initiation from a bona fide

spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession,

who is authorised by his predecessor spiritual master.

This is called diksa -vidhana."(S.B. 4.8.54,purport)

 

Now that all his attempts to convince the devotees on

this conference about his guru credentials have proven

futile, he's decided a new revolutionary approach to

the problem.

 

In this his latest diatribe on the subject of diksa

-vidhana he has decided to try - We don't need

authorization, because were bona-fide! (How nouvelle!)

 

In the hope that maybe, just maybe, there is someone

out there who is gullable enough to believe him.

 

However Srila Prabhupada tells us differently.

 

".....You should know that one can become guru when he

is ordered by his guru,...." Bhagavad-gita 7.2 --

Nairobi,October 28, 1975

 

So if Sankarshan prabhu can tell us WHEN he was

ordered by Srila Prabhupada to be diksa guru, then

this whole discussion can cease.

 

If YOU have NOT received ANY ORDER from Srila

Prabhupada to be diksa guru, why don't YOU have the

adhikari to just say so?

 

 

ys

Madhusudana dasa

 

 

 

 

--- "Sankarsana (das) ACBSP (Austin, Texas - USA)"

<Sankarsana.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote:

 

> My Dear Prabhupadanugas,

> Please accept my obeisances.

> All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

>

> These ritviks are claiming that we are not bona fide

> spiritual masters

> and they want us to prove that we are, if we are to

> continue initiating

> disciples. Even though Srila Prabhupada insructed

> us to become initiating

> gurus in Mayapur, and even though I was personally

> encouraged to become a

> guru

> and even given pointers by Srila Prabhupada on how

> to become a guru they

> want to know the exact quotes so that through word

> jugglery they can

> dismantle it.

>

> It's interesting to note in this connection that the

> bona fide spiritual

> master does not tell how he received the

> authorization to initiate

> disciples.

> He simply tells that a guru becomes a guru when he

> is ordered by his

> spiritual

> master. That's all.

>

> This is illustrated by the following conversation of

> Srila Prabhupada:

>

> Indian man: When did you become the spiritual leader

> of Krishna

> consciousness?

> Prabhupada: What is that?

> Brahmananda: He's asking when did you become the

> spiritual leader of Krishna

>

> consciousness?

> Prabhupada: When my Guru Maharaja ordered me. This

> is the guru-parampara.

> Indian: Did it...

> Prabhupada: Try to understand. Don't go very

> speedily. A guru can become

> guru when he's ordered by his guru. That's all.

> Otherwise nobody can become

> guru.

> Indian woman 2: (Hindi)

> Prabhupada: (Hindi) Sadhi mam prapannam. "I am

> surrendered to You. Whatever

> You say, I shall carry out." That's all.

> Indian man: When did he tell you to...?

> Prabhupada: What is the business, when did he tell

> me? And why shall I

> disclose

> to you? It is so very insignificant thing that I

> have to explain to you?

> Indian man: No, I am just curious when...

> Prabhupada: You should be curious within your limit.

> You should know that

> one

> can become guru when he is ordered by his guru, this

> much.

> >>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 7.2 -- Nairobi,

> October 28, 1975

>

> On the other hand if the guru is bogus, if he not

> authorized to initiate

> disciples,

> then he will not be able to tell how he got the

> authorization to initiate

> disciples.

>

> So either way no proof is given.

>

> If no proof is given then how will we know who is a

> bona fide spiritual

> master?

> This answer is given by Srila Prabhupada as follows:

>

> It is said, phalena pariciyate: one is recognized by

> the result of his

> actions.

> In Vaisnava society there are many types of

> Vaisnavas. Some of them are

> called

> gosvamis, some are called svamis, some are prabhus,

> and some are prabhupada.

>

> One is not recognized, however, simply by such a

> name. A spiritual master is

>

> recognized as an actual guru when it is seen that he

> has changed the

> character

> of his disciples.

> >>> Ref. VedaBase => Antya 3.143

>

> So the conclusion is:

>

> The guru gives no proof of his authorization to

> initiate. Who is a bona fide

>

> guru is judged by the result of his actions. That is

> the proof.

>

> Hoping this meets you in good health and in a

> cheerful mood,

> Your eternal servant,

>

> Sankarshan Das Adhikari

>

>

>

>

> failure (AT) pamho (DOT) net [failure (AT) pamho (DOT) net]

> On Behalf Of Madhusudana

> Dasa

> Wednesday, January 19, 2005 7:14 AM

> Sankarshan Das Adhikari

> Cc: Initiations in ISKCON

> Re: Toy Firetruck

>

> Dear Prabhu

>

> Please accept my humble obeisances.

> All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

>

> So are you now claiming that this quote from the

> Nectar of Devotion (written

> about 500 years ago by Rupa Goswami) is how YOU got

> your authorization to be

> a diksa guru?

>

> Also "one who follows strictly the order of Lord

> Caitanya to preach Krishna

> consciousness IS a spiritual master" - yes but don't

> forget - diksa guru

> MUST be authorised by the previous acarya.

>

> If "a child who is playing with his toy firetruck"

> can defeat you so easily.

>

> Then just see YOUR position!

>

> Self-realization?

>

> ys

> Madhusudana dasa

>

>

>

>

>

>

-----------------------

> To from this mailing list, send an email

> to:

> Initiations.in.ISKCON-Owner (AT) pamho (DOT) net

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

> Just see how desperate this guy Sankarshan is. He

> forwarded, this, and that, etc. as proof of his

> bona-fides regarding his authorization from Srila

> Prabhupada to be diksa-guru.

 

The only ones desparate here are the ones who keep beating a dead horse that

has been shunned by the entire worldwide Vaishnava community. You uphold an

idea which is solely based on the rantings of some lawyer, who practically

goes epileptic with joy every time he gets a chance to argue some

technicallity, but who is totally and completely bereft af any humility or

devotional understanding. Talk about being desparate. You suggest that KK.

Desai is here to teach everyone the correct siddhanta regarding guru-tattva,

I mean, how desparate is that?

 

If you want to base your philosophy on a piece of meaningless garbage like

TFO, if you actually want to accept TFO as your shruti, then go right ahead.

But why do you have to convince everyone else? Hasn't it dawned on you yet,

that absolutely no one in ISKCON or the rest of the Gaudiya Math buys into

this ridiculous speculation?