Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Live from Sri Mayapur Candrodaya Mandir! March 20, 2005 Verse: Srimad Bhagavatam 1.13.23 Speaker: HG Pushkar Prabhu __ agnir nisrsto dattas ca garo daras ca dusitah hrtam ksetram dhanam yesam tad-dattair asubhih kiyat TRANSLATION: There is no need to live a degraded life and subsist on the charity of those whom you tried to kill by arson and poisoning. You also insulted one of their wives and usurped their kingdom and wealth. PURPORT: The system of varnasrama religion sets aside a part of one's life completely for the purpose of self-realization and attainment of salvation in the human form of life. That is a routine division of life, but persons like Dhrtarastra, even at their weary ripened age, want to stay home, even in a degraded condition of accepting charity from enemies. Vidura wanted to point this out and impressed upon him that it was better to die like his sons than accept such humiliating charity. Five thousand years ago there was one Dhrtarastra, but at the present moment there are Dhrtarastras in every home. Politicians especially do not retire from political activities unless they are dragged by the cruel hand of death or killed by some opposing element. To stick to family life to the end of one's human life is the grossest type of degradation and there is an absolute need for the Viduras to educate such Dhrtarastras, even at the present moment. (invocatory prayers) So I haven't heard every single class, but most of them. And the thread is that the whole Bhagavatam is meant to bring us to this point of this vairagya: vairagya-vidya-nija-bhakti-yoga Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission. So this Dhrtarastra is here staying in quite a humiliating position. He was blind and always being conducted by Sanjaya. Prabhupada mentions in several places that he was spiritually blind as well as materially blind. One requires spiritual vision even if he's blind. Prabhupada pointed out that Bilvamangala Thakur was physically blind. We know he poked his eyes out, but he was seeing Krsna, divya-kisora murti, at every moment. He composed the Krsna-karnamrta-we won't ask Dravida to recite it-but he had poked his eyes out, could see divya-kisora murti at every moment and was fully liberated which is the goal here, Vidura is trying to liberate his brother. Vidura, the great sage, he is meant for cutting the knot of this material world. Vidura had travelled, he was thrown out of the palace, Duryodhana said "Leave him with only his breath". He actually wanted to practically beat him to death, his uncle. So Vidura took it as the arrangement, it's said he saw the external energy as supreme which meant he's the uttama-adhikari. Only the uttama-adhikari can see the external energy as supreme. He's seeing everywhere: sthavara-jangama dekhe, na dekhe tara murti sarvatra haya nija ista-deva-sphurti He's seeing only the isvara. So he took, and travelled, and met Maitreya. When we read Third Canto it's a very ecstatic conversation there that even approaching Maitreya Muni who was a great great sage, Vidura spoke such wonderful questions. Like one question: kas trpnuyat tirtha-pado 'bhidhanat satresu vah suribhir idyamanat (yah karna-nadim purusasya yato) bhava-pradam geha-ratim chinatti This was his question, very ecstatic: Who could be satisfied hearing the glories of Krsna? Noone. In other words he's saying that there's no end to this, we want to hear more and more. This is even before he got his answer, he was speaking very wonderfully. Who could reach the end of satisfaction, we want to hear more and more of this nectar. In this way he approached Maitreya Muni, this was his state of mind. Krsna's feet are the sum total of all holy places and He's worshipable by all society. And then finally he says in that sloka that hearing these instructions, when they enter the ear, they cut our attachment to this material world. Just hearing Bhagavatam, the more we hear, it will cut our attraction to the house. With Dhrtarastra is obviously very attached, he's blind, what can he do, he's helpless practically. So he's very attached: matir na krsne paratah svato va Prabhupada mentions here the politicians. So in relation to politicians Prabhupada would quote this verse because especially in India they want to, Prabhupada would say, screw out something from the sastras. They don't really understand the sastra. Even Gandhi, Prabhupada wrote him a letter that "You will fail"-I forget the exact words-but he predicted his ultimate failure. "You should give it up and simply surrender to Bhagavad Gita and preach actual Bhagavad Gita. Not that they, Prabhupada would say, take picture with Bhagavad Gita, "I read Bhagavad Gita three times a day". So many politicians. . . . I was personally present in 1975-Tejiyas isn't here, but I was speaking with him the other day-we went to the Railway Minister in Janpath. In 1975 we went there for several days with Srila Prabhupada. There was Dinanatha and several others doing kirtana, Acyutananda was doing kirtana. Anyway, this lady she was big, in the Indian cabinet, Congress party probably, and she was actually speaking Bhagavad Gita. She spoke something and knew many verses, maybe the whole Bhagavad Gita, but as soon as she finished speaking Prabhupada corrected her. She gave her own interpretation-immediately stopped her, "No, no, this is wrong. You have given impersonal interpretation." He wasn't afraid she was big big Cabinent minister; I won't correct her. No, Prabhupada immediately corrected her in a nice way and she listened submissively. I remember that, it's a little far back now, 30 years or so, but it was something. . .. Prabhupada would often criticise "mitho 'bhipadyeta grha-vratanam" because they are grha-vratanam, because they are big big persons, just like not only Gandhi, but so many. There was man who came and was speaking to Prabhupada on a walk about this fellow Tilak. He's some big Gita preacher and this man was one of his right hand men. So he said "Yes, Tilak is speaking Bhagavad Gita, we have a big place," and all this and immediately Prabhupada said "Tilak doesn't know Bhagavad Gita". And this is one of his chief men. Prabhupada was like this, cutting, "sneha-pasam imam chindhi" to cut our affection for this material life. Prahlad Maharaja is speaking about this household life. He was only five yet somehow he knew about household life. Very wonderful instructions are there, "ko grhesu puman saktam", Dhrtarastra is a perfect example. "Atmanam ajitendriyah", those whose senses. . . . Dhrtarastra was intrinsically was bound up with his son. His son was such a rascal, but he was controlled "Oh, he has some good sides too", but he listened to Vidura so he had this good fortune. But Duryodhana was a real rascal. Vidura had predicted the demise of the Kuru dynasty by his affection for his son. So if the son is a rascal he should be rejected. He can be dealt with nicely, but. . . . Prabhupada used to quote in the gurukula instruction: "lalane bahavo dosah", to pat your son creates many faults. So here's a good example. Duryodhana had many faults, he was a rascal all the way through, 100%. And "tadane bahavo gunah", if one is a little strict with his son, he will create good many qualities in his son. But Dhrtrarastra had no power to do that, unfortunately. But near the end now he's getting nectar from Vidura, these instructions. This problem of sons and attachments-generally in Bhagavatam we don't hear about daughters-but daughters are also there, so whether it's sons, daughters, throughout the Srimad Bhagavatam there are many examples. The Haryasvas had been sent by their father to do austerities and then create progeny. When Narada Muni saw them there he thought "Why they should these guys become progenitors, they're already advanced." So he just took advantage there and gave them some spiritual instructions. And one of them was "You don't even know who your father is". If they were unintelligent they would have thought "What's he talking about, we don't know who our father is?", but they understood because they were so intelligent that the father is the sastra, sastra-caksusa. caksudana dilo yei, janme janme pita sei Sometime Prabhupada would quote this verse instead of using the word "guru", he would use "pita" father, that the guru is our father and he's delivering us. So our real father is the sastra, is the guru: janaka, janani, dayita, tanay Bhaktivinoda Thakur says "Krsna, You are my father, my mother, my daughter, everything to me." But Dhrtarastra wasn't seeing like. Vidura's trying to bring him to this point and bring us to the point. Dhrtarastra was lucky, he had the close association of Vidura. But we're also fortunate, we're getting now "caksudana dilo yei." We're all more or less blind: "Om ajnana timirandhasya, jnananjana salakaya." This salakaya, we have to cut out the cataract. Prabhupada said you're all covered with cataracts, so I'm giving you "divyam dadami te caksuh", Krsna says to Arjuna, "I'm giving you the divine eye." So He is acting as guru, Krsna is guru, and the guru is also able to cut out our attachment. We're all full of attachments. The sannyasis are here, they don't have any attachments, but most of us are full of attachment. So when I'm speaking here it's kind of insolent, there are many people so much more advanced, they don't have any attachment for this material world. But for the grhasthas, ajitendriyah, their senses are out of control. They're attached to their sons and daughters. Narada Muni was giving so many wonderful instructions about the material world. He described "ksaura" or "ksurasya dhara," that the material energy is like a whirling spinning thunderbolt. . . imagine a thunderbolt is pretty bad on it's own, if you get hit by one you're not going to last very long. But a thunderbolt full of razor sharp and spinning, a thunderbolt comes one time, but this is a spinning, this material world, cutting us down. Prahlad Maharaja described "nispidyamanam upakarsa" it's crushing us, the wheel of time. So similarly Narada Muni is describing this thunderbolt just destroying, and Dhrtarastra is undergoing this. So Vidura is bringing us to this point again and again Srimad Bhagavatam is so wonderful: prati-sloke prati-aksare nana artha kaya There's many. . . this is a kind of small purport, it doesn't appear to be big, but there are many angles. When you look at it, it's very wonderful, Srimad Bhagavatam. Every syllable, according to Kaviraja Goswami, what to speak of the verse, every syllable is full of many things, and you can go again and again, we're never tired of hearing it. We never tire of it. When Arjuna wanted to hear these instructions he said it's like amrta, again and again we can hear it. We need to come to this point of detachment, vairagya, vidya. And without vidya then what vairagya is there? Prabhupada one time, I think it was here, somebody was doing something while he was speaking. He was making a garland even, but he got up to walk and Prabhuada said "Sit down.Oh, they're making a garland, Srila Prabhupada.No, what will they do if they don't hear? They'll do nonsense." Prabhupada was so strict, in Mayapur very relaxed, but strict. Even he didn't want householders walking together. One time he saw a couple of senior devotees reading, he said "No, no, it shouldn't be like that." He wanted us to act like sadhus. It's not that only Srila Prabhupada is sadhu or Vidura is sadhu, he wanted us to be sadhu, everyone to be sadhu, be advanced. That verse: prasangam ajaram pasam atmanah kavayo viduh sa eva sadhusu krto moksa-dvaram apavrtam I like this word viduh, it appears in many verses, one should know, of course Vidura is there, so "viduh" one should know that our attachment to this material world is very nasty, very bad. It's like a rope binding us, asa-pasa. And Bhaktivinoda is describing "asa-pasa-satair baddhah kama-krodha-parayanah", these things are meant to be given up, especially in Mayapur. Srila Prabhupada, so wonderfully. . . some of us remember when it was very simple, now it's expanded, so many people come-well, people came then, they came to see the white elephants even in 1974-we can see Prabhupada mission is unfolding more and more. He's representing the whole disciplic succession, Narada Muni, Vidura, their only mission is to extricate us-we are thinking this material world is very nice, we have so many wonderful attachments, like Dhrtarastra in every home. He was attached to his son such a rascal. Just see Hiranyakasipu, his son was very wonderful and he wanted to kill him. Even Hiranyakasipu told a very wonderful story after his brother was killed, it's in the Bhagavatam. He's our guru. "Amedhyad api kancanam", one has take gold from a dirty place, so Hiranyakasipu told a story about these ladies who were attached to their husband, the king of Usinara. They didn't want to die with their husband on the funeral pyre, they were just lamenting, crying, and Yamaraja, Vidura himself, appeared there. We have to remember Vidura is Yamaraja, he's one of the mahajanas, and he gave very wonderful instructions. He came as a child and said "You ladies are so supposed to be senior to me, I'm just a boy, but you're so attached in this material world. You should give up that attachment." Throughout the Bhagavatam these instructions are given again and again. Citraketu, very attached to his son, we heard about that the other day, he was fainting, falling, he could only think of his son. Our business is to surrender to sastra, to Prabhupada as the guru, and give up our mundane attachment. It's just simply causing pain. The more attachment the more pain there is. Prabhupada wanted everyone to come to Mayapur, come to the Holy Dhams at least once a year. Somebody protested, "But Prabhupada, that is so costly, how can we come once a year?Well, you eat, don't you?" In other words Prabhupada was making the point it's so important to come to the Dham to give up this attraction, "geha-ratim chinatti", this sneha-pasa. Who? Ko grhesu. It creeps up on us, "avijnata", we heard the verse before, "kala parama dustara" time is just very impercebtible. We're thinking "It's OK, our kids are there, very nice, we can chant" but no, we have to come to the higher platform and be able to pull ourselves out. This is the mission of the Bhagavatam: srimad-bhagavatam puranam amalam yad vaisnavanam priyam Srimad Bhagavatam is very dear and we want to hear it again and again, not once, not twice: srnvatah sraddhaya nityam grnatas ca sva-cestitam We hear it again and again very seriously, not only in the morning, "nityam bhagavata-sevaya". Yesterday I was reading a lot of Bhagavatam, I was thinking why should we do something else? It's silly, you come to the Dham, and why should we eat and why should we sleep? Prabhupada says in one purport when Narada Muni was instructing these Haryasvas, later on the other brothers followed suit, the Saryasvas or something, a thousand more progeny of Daksa. So there he was saying that it appears here that the chanting of Hare Krsna should be accompanied by great austerities. Actually it was here in 1976 that Prabhupada said there is no need for such austerities "kalena tivra-tapasa parisuddha-bhavah," how lord Brahma had done intense austerities for a long time and he became pure. Similarly the sons of Daksa were doing severe tapasya. And then Prabhupada said "Actually we're simply giving that you chant 16 rounds, you rise early in the morning, follow the four regulative principles, but you cannot even do this. Caitanya Mahaprabhu has come and given this simpler, easy method." Prabhupada has given this very nice method, but it doesn't mean we have to stick to the simple, we can become more and more advanced. Not artificially. Here we don't need to be attached always thinking about how may we be maintained. Dhrtarastra, it was always predicted in the Bhagavad Gita: ami ca tvam dhrtarastrasya putrah sarve sahaivavani-pala-sanghaih Arjuna is speaking, I can see that all the sons of Dhrtarastra, and Drona, Karna, Bhisma, they're all going to be chewed up by this universal form, their heads crushed in the mouth of the Visvarupa. This is the ultimate end of this body. The body doesn't experience really. . . it's described in the Eleventh Canto the Avanti brahmana, he was a greedy brahmana, he was very attached to his family but he couldn't do anything and he was insulted by them finally, his wealth was plundered, his crops were destroyed by time, drought, famine, finally he had nothing. He realised his spiritual position and took sannyasa. Therefore one of the sannyasa slogans, Prabhupada would say, mantras: aham tarisyami duranta-param tamo mukundanghri-nisevayaiva I will surpass this material energy by taking to the service of Mukunda. So that Avanti brahmana was insulted. Somehow or other people would see him and say " Look, see this bogus guy. He was so rich and so attached; now he's artificially pretending to be renounced!" So they would spit at him and pass air, urinate in his food, and he had to realise himself, he was forced to. In his realisation he spoke "Actually what is going on? Who's suffering? The spirit soul can't suffer, and this material body is simply made of the five material elements, and mind, three sublte elements, so actually there's no suffereing going on." This was his realisation. So if we actually get to this point and we see everywhere the instructions. .. . Prabhupada if you take the instructions of the Bhagavatam it is just like Krsna. Many purports here that, it's not that we have to dance with Krsna, but Srimad Bhagavatam, Bhagavad Gita: krsna-tulya bhagavata-vibhu, sarvasraya If we take shelter of the sastras, there are father, again and again and never give up their shelter, it is exactly being with Krsna. idam bhagavatam nama puranam brahma-sammitam The Bhagavatam is equal to Krsna, equal to all the sastras. There's no need to go outside, do anything, Prabhupada is giving Gita, Bhagavatam, "kim va parair isvarah sadyo hrdy avarudhyate 'tra krtibhih susrusubhis tat-ksanat". All these modes of nature are uprooted, unmulanat. They are firmly rooted in the heart. Prabhupada is sastra-caksusa. Prabhupada would walk and quote something, he saw by sastra. One time we were walking on this dirt road, here simply dirt path and then there was the gosalla on the left, and I saw a perfect example, many times, but a cow was coming towards us. Now who would think that a cow could be something to worry about. But Prabhupada had been gored by a cow. He stuck his cane out, the cow was 15-20 feet away, and he quoted a Canakya-sloka, "raja kulesa ca, don't have faith, the first part, narinam nakhinam caiva (?) one should beware of an animal that has horns or claws. So the cow has horns, Prabhupada pointed his cane. Sastra-caksusa, this was Srila Prabhupada, he would never miss a time to quote the sastra. It's not that he is saying no, we're with the gopis, no, he didn't always say like that. But sastra was there and. . . . Just like another Canakya, he would say that the son is an enemy who is a rascal, "ko'ta putrena jatena, yo na vidya na bhaktiman"(?) Just like Duryodhana, how did Dhrtarastra get like this, because of Duryodhana, so attached. Vidura said kill this guy. As soon as he was born he was braying like an ass. He's useless, crazy, (makes braying noise). Vidura was intelligent: get rid of him. He wouldn't even listen. "Kanena caksusa kimva caksuh pidaiva kevalam", Just like Prabhupada said someone is blind, his eyes are painful, so they take out his eyes. So a son like that, he's not putra, he's mutra, urine. This is the position of Duryodhana. He was meant to be killed. He created so much enmity, he put the Pandavas in the house of lac, and Vidura was the one who told. He spoke some mleccha-bhasa to them to give the secret that they should dig a hole like a mouse. He gave some analogy like that they did it, they got some man in there and dug a big hole and escaped from the house of lac. Bhima was carrying them out sometimes when they were too tired. Similarly the poison cake was given, so many rascal things they did. Can you imagine that? They were supposed to be brothers. Dhrtarastra was supposed to be their father but he made a big differention: mamakah pandavas caiva kim akurvata sanjaya My sons, and the sons of Pandu. It wasn't supposed to be like that. In the Vedic culture his sons and the Pandavas were supposed to be all the same, no differentiation. And Prabhupada says, why was he so worried, why did he ask this question "What did they do?" Of course they're going to fight. Prabhupada gave this example, we're eating prasada and give a plate to so many Maharajas. And if we go to another room and I ask "What did they do?" After you put the prasadam in front of them what did they do? They ate it! Of course they'll fight. But he was worried, he wanted to hear, what's going to happen. He was nervous. He knew they were in Kuruksetra; it's a holy place, even the demigods would come there. He knew his sons were rascals but he was so attached, "What can I do?" When he was informed by Krsna (or was it Akrura?), when he heard the messages, still he said "I can't do anything, I'm too attached." He's seeing Krsna face to face but this is the position. We're also seeing Krsna face to face. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta would say "If you go to Vrndavana and actually participate in the rasa dance, so many people go and see the rasa dance, then they won't go back." If they're actually in the rasa dance there's no question of going back. Prabodhananda Sarasvati has given so many instructions like that. So our senses are not our friends, they're giving us bad advice. And the sages are giving us good advice. Like Bhaktivinoda Thakur: "jivana hoilo sesa", like Dhrtarastra his life is about to end, "na bhajile hriskesa", you didn't worship Hrsikesa, the lord of the senses. "Bhaktivinoda upadesa", he's the modern day Vidura, we don't have to go back too far, we have Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, Srila Prabhupada, all representatives of Vidura, as good as Vidura, they're giving so much instruction in their songs. Vidura was there for Dhrtarastra, perhaps we didn't get face to face with Vidura but we have face to face with Prabhupada practically, and Caitanya Mahaprabhu is giving so many wonderful instructions, "trnadapi sunicena', Dhrtarastra didn't understand this point. Humble. The Pandavas were humble, they went out to the forest. Especially Yudhisthira, he was the leader, it seems like they could have done something, the wife was insulted, he didn't do anything. He was humble in this way, maybe excessively, but our examples are there that if we become humble we can chant the holy name always (trnadapi, etc.) So our only mission is to hear these instructions of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, to speak them yare dekha, tare kaha `krsna'-upadesa amara ajnaya. . . . Become guru, His order is there. It doesn't mean we have to initiate everybody we see, but we can speak something in their favour to try to extricate them. Because everybody is suffering like that. Lord Brahma, if we read in Third Canto, he is our guru: ksut-trt-tridhatubhir ima muhur ardyamanah sitosna-vata-varasair itaretarac ca He's taking great pain to see our suffering. The three elements of our body, the hunger the thirst, the heat, the cold, blasted by wind, scorching heat and rain, so many things. So our acaryas, samsarinam, Sukadeva Goswami, karunaya, are full of mercy. Lord Brahma is similarly saying like that, he says seeing this he feels great great pain. All our acaryas feel great pain, doya koro. Narottam Das Thakur is so merciful but he's begging for mercy: tandera carana sevi bhakta-sane vasa janame janame haya, ei abhilasa Life after life, so we don't care this life, another life. . . if we get, Bhaktivinoda Thakur says "kita janma hau", even if I become a worm or bug or insect in the house of a devotee, I'd rather do that than Lord Brahma and have all kinds of opulence. This is our aspiration, take the dust. "Gopi bhartuh padakamalayor dasadasanudasa", not that we are gopi, manjari, but servant's servant's servant, hundred times servant, million times servant. Whenever Prabhupada would chant this tandera carana sevi, this rendition, it's in the top ten of the universe, his voice was cracking with emotion, because this is the mood to get this. . . . We don't have to concoct anything, the mood is already given, Prabhupada's bhava is already there. We just have to hear from him. So if there are ny comments or questions. Please, Maharajas, fill in some gaps. Is there a travelling microphone, we used to have one here. Anyone's grabbing it? Not working? He has to go and turn it on. Question: Hare Krsna, the question comes, Vidura is suggesting that Duryodhana be killed at his birth, and that was a common practice in India at the time, infanticide, they would put the children on the mountainside if they defective(?) in some way. So is this advocated in this age? Answer: (chuckles) You know it was a common practice? Devotee: Yes, it was a common practice. Answer: It's still a common practice then, it must be much more prevalent now, abortion. Devotee: Abortion is much more prevalent even before the child whether the child is ?? or not, they kill, but what if a person is advocating this, what do we think? Answer: I don't think we can circumvent the laws of the state. . . no, I don't think that's advocated. In Bihar I heard it's a common practice, no matter who if it's a daughter they just immediately, not always, live birth abortion. Something George Bush is against. He's very compassionate, burning Bush. Anything else, microphone please. Partial birth abortion. Some people are against that in America. . . but Duryodhana was very obviously a bad seed. Candramauli Swami: The point is of the whole class, or the theme of this particular chapter is attachment is so deep. Despite being defeated on all levels, still the attachment remains. We hear in Bhagavatam "pasyann api na pasyati," people see but still they don't see. So we are preaching but what else is there to break those attachments. Answer: Lord Caitanya would say first become perfect and then preach. Sometimes Prabhupada said that's not necessary, that gradually you will become realised by speaking, by preaching, by acting. In New Vrindavan, remember, Kasyapa was just driving a tractor, and Prabhupada said he's living Bhagavad Gita. Preaching is very broad. One time Prabhupada said these weavers here-I don't know if we have weavers anymore, but there were weavers there on the wall-they weren't attending, they weren't so strict in their sadhana. Prabhupada said their weaving is their sadhana. Prabhupada had a big vision for this preaching. In other words, Prabhupada wanted us here, if you just stay on this property on this Dham or go out, to just act nicely as gentleman. That can be preaching. You don't have to do anything spectacular. It may be better if you can be spectacular. There is always some defect: saha-jam karma kaunteya sa-dosam api na tyajet There is always some fault. Probably in what I'm saying. Anything else please? Here, pass the mike. Devotee: When Abhimanyu was killed by the Kauravas, Arjuna became very worried. So was Arjuna attached to his son? Answer: To his son Abhimanyu, he was crying, right, there was some emotion. That's true, he was, but apparently he was more attached to Krsna. He went on fighting, he could've stopped fighting. He's a ksatriya. . . Prabhupada said everyone has some emotion, it's not like we are stone-hearted, that's not the fact, but it wasn't something he was thinking of at the fag end of his life like Dhrtarastra. As far as I know. Maybe one of the Maharajas can comment, Danavir Maharaja? Danavir Goswami: Yes, Srila Prabhupada said exactly what you said. That question was asked, what about Arjuna's attachment to his son. He was overwhelmed. And Prabhupada said exactly the same thing, yes, for some time naturally there is some affection and emotion, but the next day he was out fighting again, doing his service on the battlefield. He didn't become overwhelmed. Pushkar Prabhu: desa-kalartha-yuktani hrt-tapopasamani ca haranti smaratas cittam govindabhihitani me Arjuna spoke that verse that these instructions are good at all times and places. So he was reflecting again on Bhagavad-gita, after, in the First Canto. They're meant for cutting our chains to this material world. Bolo. Kesi Damana Prabhu: We have to become attached to Krsna, and we hear in the sastra that that will bring unlimited bliss. So why do we maintain our material attachments even though we hear this so many times? Answer: Well, that was asked in a different way in 1972, in New Vrindavan up on the hill top, that why are we always caught in maya? Because your purpose is not strong enough. Purpose meaning we have to become more strong, more sincere. Kesi Damana: So how do we become more sincere? Pushkar Prabhu: Just increase, "anandambudhi-vardhanam prati-padam purnamrtasvadanam", the nectar is ever-increasing. And we'll realise that the material attractions are not giving us any nectar. Bhaktivinoda Thakur: dhana-yauvana-jivana-rajya-sukham na hi nityam anuksana-nasa-param tyaja gramya-katha-sakalam viphalam. . . . If we hear that, they're not nitya, they're going to be finally finished. We'll give up our gramya-katha some time, hopefully sooner than later. It's always viphalam, there's no fruit to it, nothing at the end. Whereas our spiritual instruction, doing bhajan, hearing wonderful kirtana. That's why Mayapur's so wonderful. So many wonderful singers here, it's ecstatic. So we have to partake, then. . . . as soon as we stop, then maya is again there ready: "pasete maya tare japatiya dhare" Maya is there, Jagadananda Pandit says, ready to grab us again, come on. Even in Mayapur. Kesi Damana: Is there a secret formula then or something we can do to put aside maya. What is the most important thing? Pushkar: Secret formula? Didn't Prabhupada ask that in Allahabad, he was asked what the secret formula was, who remembers that? Dr. Kapoor asked him. .. . give him the microphone, he can tell it. Bhakti Vikasa Swami: Dr. O. B. L. Kapoor told in his household life when they were both living in Allahabad, he asked his Godbrother Abhay Caranaravinda Prabhu, later to be Srila Prabhupada, he was joking with him, "You're a pharmacist, you're mixing so many formulae which help people to cure their disease. Do you know the formula how we can chant Hare Krsna in such a way that we can cure the material disease?" So Prabhupada said "I know what it is but don't know how to personally enact it. The formula is trnadapi sunicena. . . ." Caitanya Mahaprabhu said the same thing: harse prabhu kahena,-"suna svarupa-rama-raya ki bhave nama laile prema uparjan (?) Now I'll tell you, Ramananda Raya and Svarupa Damodar, how to chant the holy names in such a way that love of Krsna will arise, what is the formula, trnada api sunicena, easy to say, but no so easy to put into practice. Pushkar: Wear it like a garland around the neck. Anything else. Mataji: (long-winded question about if a pure devotee suffers)Hare Krsna. I would like to ask an explanation that it's written in Nectar of Devotion that one of the first results of practicing of pure devotional service, suffering is no more, isn't it. So my question is how is that, for example, Arjuna was suffering from the death of his son. I heard recently one Prabhupada disciple telling me that Srila Prabhupada didn't suffer at all and also Haridas Thakur didn't suffer when he was beaten on the marketplace. I need clarification because Srila Prabhupada was a pure devotee, Haridas Thakur was a pure devotee, Arjuna was a pure devotee, and you just mentioned also at the end of the class that some acarya was feeling pain. They are all pure devotees and for me it's like contradictory. Could you please explain. The pure devotees are supposed not to suffer, but you just mentioned Pushkar: No, the bodies appear to be suffering, there's one verse in the Caitanya Bhagavat: yata dekha vaisnavera vyavahara duhkha niscaya janiha taha paramananda-sukha It means that although you see a Vaisnava suffering, actually he's experiencing the highest happiness. Maybe we don't understand that right now, but it's not a contradiction. Thakur Haridas was in ecstasy the whole time he was being beaten, apparently. He was being beaten in 22 marketplaces, generally you would die after one or two marketplaces, even the strongest man would man, but Thakur Haridas simply said, "These men look like they're in anxiety who are beating me" and he asked them what's going on. They said "Well, if we don't kill you, we'll be killed." So that's OK, and he just rolled over and apparently died, and they threw him in the river. He was fully protected, Prahlad Maharaj did not die, he was being poisoned, thrown off cliffs, crushed by elephants, boiled in whatever. Mataji: My question is are they suffering. . . ? Pushkar: They are not suffering, sastra explains that. . . . Mataji: So Prabhupada was not suffering when he was sick? I was not there, I joined later, but I heard from his disciples that he was suffering. . . . Pushkar: You heard it described as suffering? So that can be explained by the swamis. Who's explaining this because she heard it was described. Prabhupada didn't himself say he was suffering though. That's the point. Mataji: He was in great pain, for example Radha Kunda Mataji explained on the main stage for the Prabhupada katha, that Prabhupada was laying, he couldn't even raise his head, he was sick, and one important man came at the temple and Prabhupada got up with great difficulty to go and meet this person. For Janmastami '77 his body was destroyed, but in great pain he went to London. He couldn't walk even. . . . Pushkar: But he wasn't identifying with it, that's the only explanation. Like when we read Caitanya Caritamrta, Kaviraja Goswami says "I am trembling with old age, any moment I can die", but still he was writing. Prabhupada was translating till the last few dies. So our only understanding is that they are not identifying with this pain. You may not be able to understand that now, but we have to try for that. Microphone, somebody. Did you want to speak. Bhakti Vikasa Swami: Yes, as Pushkar Prabhu said, the pure devotee doesn't identify with it, There may be some suffering, the pure devotee may no doubt experience the fever or the discomfort or pain, but the pure devotee's experience of love for Krsna is so overwhelming that it may be something. . .. if we can give a material example, it may be like you're eating a nice cake and getting a lot of pleasure from that, and some tiny discomfot comes, you hardly notice it. The experience may be there of some discomfort, but the overwhelming experience of Krsna consciousness is so great in comparison to that that it seems inconsequential to them. Another point to be understood is that Prabhupada explained that, just like Madhavendra Puri appeared to be suffering on what, in anyone else's situation we would call his deathbed, but it's said he actually enacted this lila just to give his disciples a chance to serve him. And he was in this the highest ecstasy of maha-bhava, feeling that "My life is useless, I couldn't attain Krsna." This feeling was overwhelming. Therefore whatever we see as apparent suffering we should know that they are in paramananda sukha, they're on a different platform. If I was in this situation I would be suffering so much, we have to understand that their consciousness is a different quality to ours. Pushkar: Prabhupada gave one example, I don't know if it was on tape, but he said that Stalin had gone a serious abdominal surgery, but because he was so paranoid, he was such a power-hungry madman, he underwent no anasthesia. And they were operating on his guts. Prabhupada said what to speak of one in Krsna consciousness. In other words he was transcending this severe pain for a completely greedy materialistic motive, so what to speak of someone who is absorbed in Krsna. Where is the microphone, we need 7-8 mikes in a place like this Jananivasa Prabhu: Hare Krsna. The activities of a pure devotee are conducted under the potency of yogamaya, not mahamaya. So although he may appear to be suffering or he may be in ecstasy, we should understand it's the activity of yogamaya. And if we think the pure devotee is suffering because of his karmic reaction, that is actually an offence. Pushkar: OK, anybody else. Is it time to end, it must be. Thank you. Hare Krsna. (applause) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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