Bhagavatam class of HG Pushkar Prabhu at Mayapur

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Dear devotees

PAMHO,AGTSGM,AGTSP

Pl find below the live Bhagavatam trancripts by HG

Ananda Tirtha prabhu from mayapur

yr hs

radhabhava gaur das

 

Live from Sri Mayapur Candrodaya Mandir!

 

March 20, 2005

Verse: Srimad Bhagavatam 1.13.23

Speaker: HG Pushkar Prabhu

__

 

 

agnir nisrsto dattas ca garo daras ca dusitah

hrtam ksetram dhanam yesam tad-dattair asubhih kiyat

 

TRANSLATION: There is no need to live a degraded life

and subsist on

the

charity of those whom you tried to kill by arson and

poisoning. You

also

insulted one of their wives and usurped their kingdom

and wealth.

 

PURPORT: The system of varnasrama religion sets aside

a part of one's

life

completely for the purpose of self-realization and

attainment of

salvation

in the human form of life. That is a routine division

of life, but

persons

like Dhrtarastra, even at their weary ripened age,

want to stay home,

even

in a degraded condition of accepting charity from

enemies. Vidura

wanted to

point this out and impressed upon him that it was

better to die like

his

sons than accept such humiliating charity. Five

thousand years ago

there was

one Dhrtarastra, but at the present moment there are

Dhrtarastras in

every

home. Politicians especially do not retire from

political activities

unless

they are dragged by the cruel hand of death or killed

by some opposing

element. To stick to family life to the end of one's

human life is the

grossest type of degradation and there is an absolute

need for the

Viduras

to educate such Dhrtarastras, even at the present

moment.

 

(invocatory prayers)

 

So I haven't heard every single class, but most of

them. And the thread

is

that the whole Bhagavatam is meant to bring us to this

point of this

vairagya:

 

vairagya-vidya-nija-bhakti-yoga

 

Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission. So this Dhrtarastra is

here staying in

quite

a humiliating position. He was blind and always being

conducted by

Sanjaya.

Prabhupada mentions in several places that he was

spiritually blind as

well

as materially blind. One requires spiritual vision

even if he's blind.

Prabhupada pointed out that Bilvamangala Thakur was

physically blind.

We

know he poked his eyes out, but he was seeing Krsna,

divya-kisora

murti, at

every moment. He composed the Krsna-karnamrta-we won't

ask Dravida to

recite

it-but he had poked his eyes out, could see

divya-kisora murti at

every

moment and was fully liberated which is the goal here,

Vidura is trying

to

liberate his brother.

 

Vidura, the great sage, he is meant for cutting the

knot of this

material

world. Vidura had travelled, he was thrown out of the

palace,

Duryodhana

said "Leave him with only his breath". He actually

wanted to

practically

beat him to death, his uncle. So Vidura took it as the

arrangement,

it's

said he saw the external energy as supreme which meant

he's the

uttama-adhikari. Only the uttama-adhikari can see the

external energy

as

supreme. He's seeing everywhere:

 

sthavara-jangama dekhe, na dekhe tara murti

sarvatra haya nija ista-deva-sphurti

 

He's seeing only the isvara. So he took, and

travelled, and met

Maitreya.

When we read Third Canto it's a very ecstatic

conversation there that

even

approaching Maitreya Muni who was a great great sage,

Vidura spoke such

wonderful questions. Like one question:

 

kas trpnuyat tirtha-pado 'bhidhanat

satresu vah suribhir idyamanat

(yah karna-nadim purusasya yato)

bhava-pradam geha-ratim chinatti

 

This was his question, very ecstatic: Who could be

satisfied hearing

the

glories of Krsna? Noone. In other words he's saying

that there's no end

to

this, we want to hear more and more. This is even

before he got his

answer,

he was speaking very wonderfully. Who could reach the

end of

satisfaction,

we want to hear more and more of this nectar. In this

way he approached

Maitreya Muni, this was his state of mind. Krsna's

feet are the sum

total of

all holy places and He's worshipable by all society.

And then finally

he

says in that sloka that hearing these instructions,

when they enter the

ear,

they cut our attachment to this material world. Just

hearing

Bhagavatam, the

more we hear, it will cut our attraction to the house.

 

With Dhrtarastra is obviously very attached, he's

blind, what can he

do,

he's helpless practically. So he's very attached:

 

matir na krsne paratah svato va

 

Prabhupada mentions here the politicians. So in

relation to politicians

Prabhupada would quote this verse because especially

in India they want

to,

Prabhupada would say, screw out something from the

sastras. They don't

really understand the sastra. Even Gandhi, Prabhupada

wrote him a

letter

that "You will fail"-I forget the exact words-but he

predicted his

ultimate

failure. "You should give it up and simply surrender

to Bhagavad Gita

and

preach actual Bhagavad Gita. Not that they, Prabhupada

would say, take

picture with Bhagavad Gita, "I read Bhagavad Gita

three times a day".

So

many politicians. . . .

 

I was personally present in 1975-Tejiyas isn't here,

but I was speaking

with

him the other day-we went to the Railway Minister in

Janpath. In 1975

we

went there for several days with Srila Prabhupada.

There was Dinanatha

and

several others doing kirtana, Acyutananda was doing

kirtana. Anyway,

this

lady she was big, in the Indian cabinet, Congress

party probably, and

she

was actually speaking Bhagavad Gita. She spoke

something and knew many

verses, maybe the whole Bhagavad Gita, but as soon as

she finished

speaking

Prabhupada corrected her. She gave her own

interpretation-immediately

stopped her, "No, no, this is wrong. You have given

impersonal

interpretation." He wasn't afraid she was big big

Cabinent minister; I

won't

correct her. No, Prabhupada immediately corrected her

in a nice way and

she

listened submissively. I remember that, it's a little

far back now, 30

years

or so, but it was something. . ..

 

Prabhupada would often criticise "mitho 'bhipadyeta

grha-vratanam"

because

they are grha-vratanam, because they are big big

persons, just like not

only

Gandhi, but so many. There was man who came and was

speaking to

Prabhupada

on a walk about this fellow Tilak. He's some big Gita

preacher and this

man

was one of his right hand men. So he said "Yes, Tilak

is speaking

Bhagavad

Gita, we have a big place," and all this and

immediately Prabhupada

said

"Tilak doesn't know Bhagavad Gita". And this is one of

his chief men.

Prabhupada was like this, cutting, "sneha-pasam imam

chindhi" to cut

our

affection for this material life.

 

Prahlad Maharaja is speaking about this household

life. He was only

five yet

somehow he knew about household life. Very wonderful

instructions are

there,

"ko grhesu puman saktam", Dhrtarastra is a perfect

example. "Atmanam

ajitendriyah", those whose senses. . . . Dhrtarastra

was intrinsically

was

bound up with his son. His son was such a rascal, but

he was controlled

"Oh,

he has some good sides too", but he listened to Vidura

so he had this

good

fortune. But Duryodhana was a real rascal. Vidura had

predicted the

demise

of the Kuru dynasty by his affection for his son. So

if the son is a

rascal

he should be rejected. He can be dealt with nicely,

but. . . .

Prabhupada

used to quote in the gurukula instruction: "lalane

bahavo dosah", to

pat

your son creates many faults. So here's a good

example. Duryodhana had

many

faults, he was a rascal all the way through, 100%. And

"tadane bahavo

gunah", if one is a little strict with his son, he

will create good

many

qualities in his son. But Dhrtrarastra had no power to

do that,

unfortunately.

 

But near the end now he's getting nectar from Vidura,

these

instructions.

This problem of sons and attachments-generally in

Bhagavatam we don't

hear

about daughters-but daughters are also there, so

whether it's sons,

daughters, throughout the Srimad Bhagavatam there are

many examples.

The

Haryasvas had been sent by their father to do

austerities and then

create

progeny. When Narada Muni saw them there he thought

"Why they should

these

guys become progenitors, they're already advanced." So

he just took

advantage there and gave them some spiritual

instructions. And one of

them

was "You don't even know who your father is". If they

were

unintelligent

they would have thought "What's he talking about, we

don't know who our

father is?", but they understood because they were so

intelligent that

the

father is the sastra, sastra-caksusa.

 

caksudana dilo yei, janme janme pita sei

 

Sometime Prabhupada would quote this verse instead of

using the word

"guru",

he would use "pita" father, that the guru is our

father and he's

delivering

us. So our real father is the sastra, is the guru:

 

janaka, janani, dayita, tanay

 

Bhaktivinoda Thakur says "Krsna, You are my father, my

mother, my

daughter,

everything to me."

 

But Dhrtarastra wasn't seeing like. Vidura's trying to

bring him to

this

point and bring us to the point. Dhrtarastra was

lucky, he had the

close

association of Vidura. But we're also fortunate, we're

getting now

"caksudana dilo yei." We're all more or less blind:

"Om ajnana

timirandhasya, jnananjana salakaya." This salakaya, we

have to cut out

the

cataract. Prabhupada said you're all covered with

cataracts, so I'm

giving

you "divyam dadami te caksuh", Krsna says to Arjuna,

"I'm giving you

the

divine eye."

 

So He is acting as guru, Krsna is guru, and the guru

is also able to

cut out

our attachment. We're all full of attachments. The

sannyasis are here,

they

don't have any attachments, but most of us are full of

attachment. So

when

I'm speaking here it's kind of insolent, there are

many people so much

more

advanced, they don't have any attachment for this

material world. But

for

the grhasthas, ajitendriyah, their senses are out of

control. They're

attached to their sons and daughters.

 

Narada Muni was giving so many wonderful instructions

about the

material

world. He described "ksaura" or "ksurasya dhara," that

the material

energy

is like a whirling spinning thunderbolt. . . imagine a

thunderbolt is

pretty

bad on it's own, if you get hit by one you're not

going to last very

long.

But a thunderbolt full of razor sharp and spinning, a

thunderbolt comes

one

time, but this is a spinning, this material world,

cutting us down.

Prahlad

Maharaja described "nispidyamanam upakarsa" it's

crushing us, the wheel

of

time. So similarly Narada Muni is describing this

thunderbolt just

destroying, and Dhrtarastra is undergoing this. So

Vidura is bringing

us to

this point again and again Srimad Bhagavatam is so

wonderful:

 

prati-sloke prati-aksare nana artha kaya

 

There's many. . . this is a kind of small purport, it

doesn't appear to

be

big, but there are many angles. When you look at it,

it's very

wonderful,

Srimad Bhagavatam. Every syllable, according to

Kaviraja Goswami, what

to

speak of the verse, every syllable is full of many

things, and you can

go

again and again, we're never tired of hearing it. We

never tire of it.

When

Arjuna wanted to hear these instructions he said it's

like amrta, again

and

again we can hear it.

 

We need to come to this point of detachment, vairagya,

vidya. And

without

vidya then what vairagya is there? Prabhupada one

time, I think it was

here,

somebody was doing something while he was speaking. He

was making a

garland

even, but he got up to walk and Prabhuada said "Sit

down.Oh, they're

making a garland, Srila Prabhupada.No, what will

they do if they

don't

hear? They'll do nonsense." Prabhupada was so strict,

in Mayapur very

relaxed, but strict. Even he didn't want householders

walking together.

One

time he saw a couple of senior devotees reading, he

said "No, no, it

shouldn't be like that." He wanted us to act like

sadhus. It's not that

only

Srila Prabhupada is sadhu or Vidura is sadhu, he

wanted us to be sadhu,

everyone to be sadhu, be advanced. That verse:

 

prasangam ajaram pasam atmanah kavayo viduh

sa eva sadhusu krto moksa-dvaram apavrtam

 

I like this word viduh, it appears in many verses, one

should know, of

course Vidura is there, so "viduh" one should know

that our attachment

to

this material world is very nasty, very bad. It's like

a rope binding

us,

asa-pasa. And Bhaktivinoda is describing

"asa-pasa-satair baddhah

kama-krodha-parayanah", these things are meant to be

given up,

especially in

Mayapur.

 

Srila Prabhupada, so wonderfully. . . some of us

remember when it was

very

simple, now it's expanded, so many people come-well,

people came then,

they

came to see the white elephants even in 1974-we can

see Prabhupada

mission

is unfolding more and more. He's representing the

whole disciplic

succession, Narada Muni, Vidura, their only mission is

to extricate

us-we

are thinking this material world is very nice, we have

so many

wonderful

attachments, like Dhrtarastra in every home. He was

attached to his son

such

a rascal. Just see Hiranyakasipu, his son was very

wonderful and he

wanted

to kill him. Even Hiranyakasipu told a very wonderful

story after his

brother was killed, it's in the Bhagavatam. He's our

guru. "Amedhyad

api

kancanam", one has take gold from a dirty place, so

Hiranyakasipu told

a

story about these ladies who were attached to their

husband, the king

of

Usinara. They didn't want to die with their husband on

the funeral

pyre,

they were just lamenting, crying, and Yamaraja, Vidura

himself,

appeared

there. We have to remember Vidura is Yamaraja, he's

one of the

mahajanas,

and he gave very wonderful instructions. He came as a

child and said

"You

ladies are so supposed to be senior to me, I'm just a

boy, but you're

so

attached in this material world. You should give up

that attachment."

 

Throughout the Bhagavatam these instructions are given

again and again.

Citraketu, very attached to his son, we heard about

that the other day,

he

was fainting, falling, he could only think of his son.

Our business is

to

surrender to sastra, to Prabhupada as the guru, and

give up our mundane

attachment. It's just simply causing pain. The more

attachment the more

pain

there is.

 

Prabhupada wanted everyone to come to Mayapur, come to

the Holy Dhams

at

least once a year. Somebody protested, "But

Prabhupada, that is so

costly,

how can we come once a year?Well, you eat, don't

you?" In other

words

Prabhupada was making the point it's so important to

come to the Dham

to

give up this attraction, "geha-ratim chinatti", this

sneha-pasa. Who?

Ko

grhesu. It creeps up on us, "avijnata", we heard the

verse before,

"kala

parama dustara" time is just very impercebtible. We're

thinking "It's

OK,

our kids are there, very nice, we can chant" but no,

we have to come to

the

higher platform and be able to pull ourselves out.

 

This is the mission of the Bhagavatam:

 

srimad-bhagavatam puranam amalam yad vaisnavanam

priyam

 

Srimad Bhagavatam is very dear and we want to hear it

again and again,

not

once, not twice:

 

srnvatah sraddhaya nityam grnatas ca sva-cestitam

 

We hear it again and again very seriously, not only in

the morning,

"nityam

bhagavata-sevaya". Yesterday I was reading a lot of

Bhagavatam, I was

thinking why should we do something else? It's silly,

you come to the

Dham,

and why should we eat and why should we sleep?

Prabhupada says in one

purport when Narada Muni was instructing these

Haryasvas, later on the

other

brothers followed suit, the Saryasvas or something, a

thousand more

progeny

of Daksa. So there he was saying that it appears here

that the chanting

of

Hare Krsna should be accompanied by great austerities.

 

Actually it was here in 1976 that Prabhupada said

there is no need for

such

austerities "kalena tivra-tapasa parisuddha-bhavah,"

how lord Brahma

had

done intense austerities for a long time and he became

pure. Similarly

the

sons of Daksa were doing severe tapasya. And then

Prabhupada said

"Actually

we're simply giving that you chant 16 rounds, you rise

early in the

morning,

follow the four regulative principles, but you cannot

even do this.

Caitanya

Mahaprabhu has come and given this simpler, easy

method." Prabhupada

has

given this very nice method, but it doesn't mean we

have to stick to

the

simple, we can become more and more advanced. Not

artificially.

 

Here we don't need to be attached always thinking

about how may we be

maintained. Dhrtarastra, it was always predicted in

the Bhagavad Gita:

 

ami ca tvam dhrtarastrasya putrah

sarve sahaivavani-pala-sanghaih

 

Arjuna is speaking, I can see that all the sons of

Dhrtarastra, and

Drona,

Karna, Bhisma, they're all going to be chewed up by

this universal

form,

their heads crushed in the mouth of the Visvarupa.

This is the ultimate

end

of this body. The body doesn't experience really. . .

it's described in

the

Eleventh Canto the Avanti brahmana, he was a greedy

brahmana, he was

very

attached to his family but he couldn't do anything and

he was insulted

by

them finally, his wealth was plundered, his crops were

destroyed by

time,

drought, famine, finally he had nothing. He realised

his spiritual

position

and took sannyasa. Therefore one of the sannyasa

slogans, Prabhupada

would

say, mantras:

 

aham tarisyami duranta-param

tamo mukundanghri-nisevayaiva

 

I will surpass this material energy by taking to the

service of

Mukunda. So

that Avanti brahmana was insulted. Somehow or other

people would see

him and

say " Look, see this bogus guy. He was so rich and so

attached; now

he's

artificially pretending to be renounced!" So they

would spit at him and

pass

air, urinate in his food, and he had to realise

himself, he was forced

to.

In his realisation he spoke "Actually what is going

on? Who's

suffering? The

spirit soul can't suffer, and this material body is

simply made of the

five

material elements, and mind, three sublte elements, so

actually there's

no

suffereing going on." This was his realisation.

 

So if we actually get to this point and we see

everywhere the

instructions.

.. . Prabhupada if you take the instructions of the

Bhagavatam it is

just

like Krsna. Many purports here that, it's not that we

have to dance

with

Krsna, but Srimad Bhagavatam, Bhagavad Gita:

 

krsna-tulya bhagavata-vibhu, sarvasraya

 

If we take shelter of the sastras, there are father,

again and again

and

never give up their shelter, it is exactly being with

Krsna.

 

idam bhagavatam nama puranam brahma-sammitam

 

The Bhagavatam is equal to Krsna, equal to all the

sastras. There's no

need

to go outside, do anything, Prabhupada is giving Gita,

Bhagavatam, "kim

va

parair isvarah

sadyo hrdy avarudhyate 'tra krtibhih susrusubhis

tat-ksanat". All these

modes of nature are uprooted, unmulanat. They are

firmly rooted in the

heart.

 

Prabhupada is sastra-caksusa. Prabhupada would walk

and quote

something, he

saw by sastra. One time we were walking on this dirt

road, here simply

dirt

path and then there was the gosalla on the left, and I

saw a perfect

example, many times, but a cow was coming towards us.

Now who would

think

that a cow could be something to worry about. But

Prabhupada had been

gored

by a cow. He stuck his cane out, the cow was 15-20

feet away, and he

quoted

a Canakya-sloka, "raja kulesa ca, don't have faith,

the first part,

narinam

nakhinam caiva (?) one should beware of an animal that

has horns or

claws.

So the cow has horns, Prabhupada pointed his cane.

Sastra-caksusa, this

was

Srila Prabhupada, he would never miss a time to quote

the sastra. It's

not

that he is saying no, we're with the gopis, no, he

didn't always say

like

that. But sastra was there and. . . .

 

Just like another Canakya, he would say that the son

is an enemy who is

a

rascal, "ko'ta putrena jatena, yo na vidya na

bhaktiman"(?) Just like

Duryodhana, how did Dhrtarastra get like this, because

of Duryodhana,

so

attached. Vidura said kill this guy. As soon as he was

born he was

braying

like an ass. He's useless, crazy, (makes braying

noise). Vidura was

intelligent: get rid of him. He wouldn't even listen.

"Kanena caksusa

kimva

caksuh pidaiva kevalam", Just like Prabhupada said

someone is blind,

his

eyes are painful, so they take out his eyes. So a son

like that, he's

not

putra, he's mutra, urine. This is the position of

Duryodhana. He was

meant

to be killed. He created so much enmity, he put the

Pandavas in the

house of

lac, and Vidura was the one who told. He spoke some

mleccha-bhasa to

them to

give the secret that they should dig a hole like a

mouse. He gave some

analogy like that they did it, they got some man in

there and dug a big

hole

and escaped from the house of lac. Bhima was carrying

them out

sometimes

when they were too tired. Similarly the poison cake

was given, so many

rascal things they did. Can you imagine that? They

were supposed to be

brothers. Dhrtarastra was supposed to be their father

but he made a big

differention:

 

mamakah pandavas caiva kim akurvata sanjaya

 

My sons, and the sons of Pandu. It wasn't supposed to

be like that. In

the

Vedic culture his sons and the Pandavas were supposed

to be all the

same, no

differentiation. And Prabhupada says, why was he so

worried, why did he

ask

this question "What did they do?" Of course they're

going to fight.

Prabhupada gave this example, we're eating prasada and

give a plate to

so

many Maharajas. And if we go to another room and I ask

"What did they

do?"

After you put the prasadam in front of them what did

they do? They ate

it!

Of course they'll fight. But he was worried, he wanted

to hear, what's

going

to happen. He was nervous. He knew they were in

Kuruksetra; it's a holy

place, even the demigods would come there. He knew his

sons were

rascals but

he was so attached, "What can I do?" When he was

informed by Krsna (or

was

it Akrura?), when he heard the messages, still he said

"I can't do

anything,

I'm too attached." He's seeing Krsna face to face but

this is the

position.

 

We're also seeing Krsna face to face. Srila

Bhaktisiddhanta would say

"If

you go to Vrndavana and actually participate in the

rasa dance, so many

people go and see the rasa dance, then they won't go

back." If they're

actually in the rasa dance there's no question of

going back.

Prabodhananda

Sarasvati has given so many instructions like that.

 

So our senses are not our friends, they're giving us

bad advice. And

the

sages are giving us good advice. Like Bhaktivinoda

Thakur: "jivana

hoilo

sesa", like Dhrtarastra his life is about to end, "na

bhajile

hriskesa", you

didn't worship Hrsikesa, the lord of the senses.

"Bhaktivinoda

upadesa",

he's the modern day Vidura, we don't have to go back

too far, we have

Srila

Bhaktisiddhanta, Srila Prabhupada, all representatives

of Vidura, as

good as

Vidura, they're giving so much instruction in their

songs. Vidura was

there

for Dhrtarastra, perhaps we didn't get face to face

with Vidura but we

have

face to face with Prabhupada practically, and Caitanya

Mahaprabhu is

giving

so many wonderful instructions, "trnadapi sunicena',

Dhrtarastra didn't

understand this point. Humble. The Pandavas were

humble, they went out

to

the forest. Especially Yudhisthira, he was the leader,

it seems like

they

could have done something, the wife was insulted, he

didn't do

anything. He

was humble in this way, maybe excessively, but our

examples are there

that

if we become humble we can chant the holy name always

(trnadapi, etc.)

So

our only mission is to hear these instructions of

Caitanya Mahaprabhu,

to

speak them

 

yare dekha, tare kaha `krsna'-upadesa

amara ajnaya. . . .

 

Become guru, His order is there. It doesn't mean we

have to initiate

everybody we see, but we can speak something in their

favour to try to

extricate them. Because everybody is suffering like

that. Lord Brahma,

if we

read in Third Canto, he is our guru:

 

ksut-trt-tridhatubhir ima muhur ardyamanah

sitosna-vata-varasair itaretarac ca

 

He's taking great pain to see our suffering. The three

elements of our

body,

the hunger the thirst, the heat, the cold, blasted by

wind, scorching

heat

and rain, so many things. So our acaryas, samsarinam,

Sukadeva Goswami,

karunaya, are full of mercy. Lord Brahma is similarly

saying like that,

he

says seeing this he feels great great pain. All our

acaryas feel great

pain,

doya koro. Narottam Das Thakur is so merciful but he's

begging for

mercy:

 

tandera carana sevi bhakta-sane vasa

janame janame haya, ei abhilasa

 

Life after life, so we don't care this life, another

life. . . if we

get,

Bhaktivinoda Thakur says "kita janma hau", even if I

become a worm or

bug or

insect in the house of a devotee, I'd rather do that

than Lord Brahma

and

have all kinds of opulence. This is our aspiration,

take the dust.

"Gopi

bhartuh padakamalayor dasadasanudasa", not that we are

gopi, manjari,

but

servant's servant's servant, hundred times servant,

million times

servant.

 

Whenever Prabhupada would chant this tandera carana

sevi, this

rendition,

it's in the top ten of the universe, his voice was

cracking with

emotion,

because this is the mood to get this. . . . We don't

have to concoct

anything, the mood is already given, Prabhupada's

bhava is already

there. We

just have to hear from him.

 

So if there are ny comments or questions. Please,

Maharajas, fill in

some

gaps. Is there a travelling microphone, we used to

have one here.

Anyone's

grabbing it? Not working? He has to go and turn it on.

 

Question: Hare Krsna, the question comes, Vidura is

suggesting that

Duryodhana be killed at his birth, and that was a

common practice in

India

at the time, infanticide, they would put the children

on the

mountainside if

they defective(?) in some way. So is this advocated in

this age?

 

Answer: (chuckles) You know it was a common practice?

 

Devotee: Yes, it was a common practice.

 

Answer: It's still a common practice then, it must be

much more

prevalent

now, abortion.

 

Devotee: Abortion is much more prevalent even before

the child whether

the

child is ?? or not, they kill, but what if a person is

advocating this,

what

do we think?

 

Answer: I don't think we can circumvent the laws of

the state. . . no,

I

don't think that's advocated. In Bihar I heard it's a

common practice,

no

matter who if it's a daughter they just immediately,

not always, live

birth

abortion. Something George Bush is against. He's very

compassionate,

burning

Bush. Anything else, microphone please. Partial birth

abortion. Some

people

are against that in America. . . but Duryodhana was

very obviously a

bad

seed.

 

Candramauli Swami: The point is of the whole class,

or the theme of

this

particular chapter is attachment is so deep. Despite

being defeated on

all

levels, still the attachment remains. We hear in

Bhagavatam "pasyann

api na

pasyati," people see but still they don't see. So we

are preaching but

what

else is there to break those attachments.

 

Answer: Lord Caitanya would say first become perfect

and then preach.

Sometimes Prabhupada said that's not necessary, that

gradually you will

become realised by speaking, by preaching, by acting.

In New Vrindavan,

remember, Kasyapa was just driving a tractor, and

Prabhupada said he's

living Bhagavad Gita. Preaching is very broad. One

time Prabhupada said

these weavers here-I don't know if we have weavers

anymore, but there

were

weavers there on the wall-they weren't attending, they

weren't so

strict in

their sadhana. Prabhupada said their weaving is their

sadhana.

Prabhupada

had a big vision for this preaching. In other words,

Prabhupada wanted

us

here, if you just stay on this property on this Dham

or go out, to just

act

nicely as gentleman. That can be preaching. You don't

have to do

anything

spectacular. It may be better if you can be

spectacular. There is

always

some defect:

 

saha-jam karma kaunteya sa-dosam api na tyajet

 

There is always some fault. Probably in what I'm

saying. Anything else

please? Here, pass the mike.

 

Devotee: When Abhimanyu was killed by the Kauravas,

Arjuna became very

worried. So was Arjuna attached to his son?

 

Answer: To his son Abhimanyu, he was crying, right,

there was some

emotion.

That's true, he was, but apparently he was more

attached to Krsna. He

went

on fighting, he could've stopped fighting. He's a

ksatriya. . .

Prabhupada

said everyone has some emotion, it's not like we are

stone-hearted,

that's

not the fact, but it wasn't something he was thinking

of at the fag end

of

his life like Dhrtarastra. As far as I know. Maybe one

of the Maharajas

can

comment, Danavir Maharaja?

 

Danavir Goswami: Yes, Srila Prabhupada said exactly

what you said. That

question was asked, what about Arjuna's attachment to

his son. He was

overwhelmed. And Prabhupada said exactly the same

thing, yes, for some

time

naturally there is some affection and emotion, but the

next day he was

out

fighting again, doing his service on the battlefield.

He didn't become

overwhelmed.

 

Pushkar Prabhu:

 

desa-kalartha-yuktani hrt-tapopasamani ca

haranti smaratas cittam govindabhihitani me

 

Arjuna spoke that verse that these instructions are

good at all times

and

places. So he was reflecting again on Bhagavad-gita,

after, in the

First

Canto. They're meant for cutting our chains to this

material world.

Bolo.

 

Kesi Damana Prabhu: We have to become attached to

Krsna, and we hear in

the

sastra that that will bring unlimited bliss. So why do

we maintain our

material attachments even though we hear this so many

times?

 

Answer: Well, that was asked in a different way in

1972, in New

Vrindavan up

on the hill top, that why are we always caught in

maya? Because your

purpose

is not strong enough. Purpose meaning we have to

become more strong,

more

sincere.

 

Kesi Damana: So how do we become more sincere?

 

Pushkar Prabhu: Just increase, "anandambudhi-vardhanam

prati-padam

purnamrtasvadanam", the nectar is ever-increasing. And

we'll realise

that

the material attractions are not giving us any nectar.

Bhaktivinoda

Thakur:

 

dhana-yauvana-jivana-rajya-sukham

na hi nityam anuksana-nasa-param

tyaja gramya-katha-sakalam viphalam. . . .

 

If we hear that, they're not nitya, they're going to

be finally

finished.

We'll give up our gramya-katha some time, hopefully

sooner than later.

It's

always viphalam, there's no fruit to it, nothing at

the end. Whereas

our

spiritual instruction, doing bhajan, hearing wonderful

kirtana. That's

why

Mayapur's so wonderful. So many wonderful singers

here, it's ecstatic.

So we

have to partake, then. . . . as soon as we stop, then

maya is again

there

ready: "pasete maya tare japatiya dhare" Maya is

there, Jagadananda

Pandit

says, ready to grab us again, come on. Even in

Mayapur.

 

Kesi Damana: Is there a secret formula then or

something we can do to

put

aside maya. What is the most important thing?

 

Pushkar: Secret formula? Didn't Prabhupada ask that in

Allahabad, he

was

asked what the secret formula was, who remembers that?

Dr. Kapoor asked

him.

.. . give him the microphone, he can tell it.

 

Bhakti Vikasa Swami: Dr. O. B. L. Kapoor told in his

household life

when

they were both living in Allahabad, he asked his

Godbrother Abhay

Caranaravinda Prabhu, later to be Srila Prabhupada, he

was joking with

him,

"You're a pharmacist, you're mixing so many formulae

which help people

to

cure their disease. Do you know the formula how we can

chant Hare Krsna

in

such a way that we can cure the material disease?" So

Prabhupada said

"I

know what it is but don't know how to personally enact

it. The formula

is

trnadapi sunicena. . . ."

 

Caitanya Mahaprabhu said the same thing:

 

harse prabhu kahena,-"suna svarupa-rama-raya

ki bhave nama laile prema uparjan (?)

 

Now I'll tell you, Ramananda Raya and Svarupa Damodar,

how to chant the

holy

names in such a way that love of Krsna will arise,

what is the formula,

trnada api sunicena, easy to say, but no so easy to

put into practice.

 

Pushkar: Wear it like a garland around the neck.

Anything else.

 

Mataji: (long-winded question about if a pure devotee

suffers)Hare

Krsna. I

would like to ask an explanation that it's written in

Nectar of

Devotion

that one of the first results of practicing of pure

devotional service,

suffering is no more, isn't it. So my question is how

is that, for

example,

Arjuna was suffering from the death of his son. I

heard recently one

Prabhupada disciple telling me that Srila Prabhupada

didn't suffer at

all

and also Haridas Thakur didn't suffer when he was

beaten on the

marketplace.

I need clarification because Srila Prabhupada was a

pure devotee,

Haridas

Thakur was a pure devotee, Arjuna was a pure devotee,

and you just

mentioned

also at the end of the class that some acarya was

feeling pain. They

are all

pure devotees and for me it's like contradictory.

Could you please

explain.

The pure devotees are supposed not to suffer, but you

just mentioned

 

Pushkar: No, the bodies appear to be suffering,

there's one verse in

the

Caitanya Bhagavat:

 

yata dekha vaisnavera vyavahara duhkha

niscaya janiha taha paramananda-sukha

 

It means that although you see a Vaisnava suffering,

actually he's

experiencing the highest happiness. Maybe we don't

understand that

right

now, but it's not a contradiction. Thakur Haridas was

in ecstasy the

whole

time he was being beaten, apparently. He was being

beaten in 22

marketplaces, generally you would die after one or two

marketplaces,

even

the strongest man would man, but Thakur Haridas simply

said, "These men

look

like they're in anxiety who are beating me" and he

asked them what's

going

on. They said "Well, if we don't kill you, we'll be

killed." So that's

OK,

and he just rolled over and apparently died, and they

threw him in the

river. He was fully protected, Prahlad Maharaj did not

die, he was

being

poisoned, thrown off cliffs, crushed by elephants,

boiled in whatever.

 

Mataji: My question is are they suffering. . . ?

 

Pushkar: They are not suffering, sastra explains that.

.. . .

 

Mataji: So Prabhupada was not suffering when he was

sick? I was not

there, I

joined later, but I heard from his disciples that he

was suffering. . .

..

 

Pushkar: You heard it described as suffering? So that

can be explained

by

the swamis. Who's explaining this because she heard it

was described.

Prabhupada didn't himself say he was suffering though.

That's the

point.

 

Mataji: He was in great pain, for example Radha Kunda

Mataji explained

on

the main stage for the Prabhupada katha, that

Prabhupada was laying, he

couldn't even raise his head, he was sick, and one

important man came

at the

temple and Prabhupada got up with great difficulty to

go and meet this

person. For Janmastami '77 his body was destroyed, but

in great pain he

went

to London. He couldn't walk even. . . .

 

Pushkar: But he wasn't identifying with it, that's the

only

explanation.

Like when we read Caitanya Caritamrta, Kaviraja

Goswami says "I am

trembling

with old age, any moment I can die", but still he was

writing.

Prabhupada

was translating till the last few dies. So our only

understanding is

that

they are not identifying with this pain. You may not

be able to

understand

that now, but we have to try for that. Microphone,

somebody. Did you

want to

speak.

 

Bhakti Vikasa Swami: Yes, as Pushkar Prabhu said, the

pure devotee

doesn't

identify with it, There may be some suffering, the

pure devotee may no

doubt

experience the fever or the discomfort or pain, but

the pure devotee's

experience of love for Krsna is so overwhelming that

it may be

something. .

.. if we can give a material example, it may be like

you're eating a

nice

cake and getting a lot of pleasure from that, and some

tiny discomfot

comes,

you hardly notice it. The experience may be there of

some discomfort,

but

the overwhelming experience of Krsna consciousness is

so great in

comparison

to that that it seems inconsequential to them.

 

Another point to be understood is that Prabhupada

explained that, just

like

Madhavendra Puri appeared to be suffering on what, in

anyone else's

situation we would call his deathbed, but it's said he

actually enacted

this

lila just to give his disciples a chance to serve him.

And he was in

this

the highest ecstasy of maha-bhava, feeling that "My

life is useless, I

couldn't attain Krsna." This feeling was overwhelming.

Therefore

whatever we

see as apparent suffering we should know that they are

in paramananda

sukha,

they're on a different platform. If I was in this

situation I would be

suffering so much, we have to understand that their

consciousness is a

different quality to ours.

 

Pushkar: Prabhupada gave one example, I don't know if

it was on tape,

but he

said that Stalin had gone a serious abdominal surgery,

but because he

was so

paranoid, he was such a power-hungry madman, he

underwent no

anasthesia. And

they were operating on his guts. Prabhupada said what

to speak of one

in

Krsna consciousness. In other words he was

transcending this severe

pain for

a completely greedy materialistic motive, so what to

speak of someone

who is

absorbed in Krsna.

 

Where is the microphone, we need 7-8 mikes in a place

like this

 

Jananivasa Prabhu: Hare Krsna. The activities of a

pure devotee are

conducted under the potency of yogamaya, not mahamaya.

So although he

may

appear to be suffering or he may be in ecstasy, we

should understand

it's

the activity of yogamaya. And if we think the pure

devotee is suffering

because of his karmic reaction, that is actually an

offence.

 

Pushkar: OK, anybody else. Is it time to end, it must

be. Thank you.

Hare

Krsna. (applause)

 

 

 

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