Kunstler: The Long Emergency - the crash after Peak Oil

[Guest guest]

-

Pancaratna ACBSP <Pancaratna.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

Monday, March 28, 2005 9:02 pm

Kunstler: The Long Emergency - the crash after Peak Oil Production -

March 2005

 

> Dandavad. Prabhupada kijaya!

>

> THank you for your comment:

>

> > And I wonder about ISKCON's leadership. Are they still building for

> > jet-set tourist meccas that will be inaccessible in 15 years?

> Are they

> > interested in protecting cows and training oxen so that we can

> make the

> > most of our preaching opportunities in the hard times to come?

>

> I am using it to stir more energy in the direction of sustainable

> development in Mayapur Project.

>

> BTW, the economics of making Mayapur a center of pilgrimage is not

> based on

> jet-setting tourists (although Srila Prabhupada wanted to "attract

> the whole

> world") , but train and bus traveling Indians, who may be best

> prepared for

> the coming oil shortages.

 

Yes, I realize they are a significant sector -- but aren't their busses and

trains powered by fossil fuel? When the price of oil doubles, doesn't that

have a substantial impact on the price of a bus ticket? Or is there some other

cushion or subsidy in India that shields those prices from increase?

 

>

> Your servant,

> Pancaratna das

>

[Guest guest]

> Yes, I realize they are a significant sector -- but aren't their busses

> and trains powered by fossil fuel?

>When the price of oil doubles, doesn't

> that have a substantial impact on the price of a bus ticket? Or is there

> some other cushion or subsidy in India that shields those prices from

> increase?

 

I'm not saying there won't be an effect. Just that it may not be as severe

as more oil-dependent countries.

 

Your servant,

Pancaratna das

[Guest guest]

eka Buddhi's not so humble assessment of Peak Oil.

 

I understand that as devotees you don't watch TV. There have been and are

car designs made and running that need little or no oil. They could be ready

to

go.

This war on terror is about squeezing as much oil out of Iraq as possible in

the short amount of time they have before the public realizes this.

 

Prices will soar. This is the oil mans last chance to make billions out of

his black gold. At the turn of the century striking coal workers and their

families were shot to death for striking. The greedily wealthy could get away

with that. Now we are more civilized. We start a crusade. We kill in the

name of God. Very modern idea.

But we need to get at that oil now, before it is worthless. Before solar

power, hydrogen power, bio diesel etc....becomes the norm.

 

It is not lack of oil that will cause major trauma. It is abundance of

greed. Lack of respect for those unlike ourselves. Complacency once we see

what

is actually happening.

 

Don't hope for major devastation to be appreciated for cow power. Work the

oxen, care for the cows, because it is the gentle, loving way to treat mother

earth. Show a peaceful way to exist. Not just with this animal that was dear

to Krishna, but with every living entity. What was one became many.

 

I pray that my grammar isn't being analyzed, save that for my character, God

knows that is in grave need of repair.

eka

[Guest guest]

This is a conversation from a few years ago...

Just mentioned was Vaisya drive for cow protection.

 

The only way I see oxen powered communities self sufficient, is if they are

entertwined cottage industries. The Amish (not vegetarian) are in the

isolated self governing communities living the life they choose, but they are

also

everywhere, and I mean a lot of places, as vaisyas.

 

They are selling their dead animals. crafts, milk, butter, cream, cheeses,

needlework, tiny barns, logos. They are present at every antique maket i've

been to.

They fill up half the stalls at the Reading market in Philadelphia (quite

large produce market) They support themselves not just from products, but from

 

reputation. They are considered simple, pure living, honest. They are seen as

 

people that will deliver a good product. Their life style is odd to some,

but at the same time inspiring in such chaotic times.

 

Small farming is a thing of the past. that's what Farm-aid was about. Willy

Nelson and all those musicians were out there because small farms are

destroyed by big farms. It is a product and a life style that is very

marketable.

and thereby brings about self sufficiency.

eka

[Guest guest]

In this hilly forested area where we live, farmers are poor and they all

use oxen as tractors won't work, nor can they afford them. Tractors also

cannot run in paddy fields full of mud and water during the monsoon but

oxen can. But most of these farmers unfortunately trade in their old bulls

for new ones , paying some cash too, instead of retiring them. and they turn

a blind eye to their fate at the hands of the butchers. Very few maintain

their old animals.ys Labangaltika dasi

-

<Dasgopal (AT) aol (DOT) com>

Cow (Protection and related issues) <Cow (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

Tuesday, March 29, 2005 6:21 PM

Kunstler: The Long Emergency - the crash after Peak Oil Production

 

 

> One thing to keep in mind is that oil or no oil, people will first need to

> become Krishna conscious before cow protection will ever take root.

>

> They won't take to "cow protection" simply because they are using animals.

> It's a fact that before automobiles and trains, the West used only animal

power

>

> (what else was there?). However, there were no vegetarians (expect perhaps

> among the intellectuals) - the people in general used oxen and horses for

power

>

> and when they were too old to work they killed them and used their bodies

in

> other ways. They used horses for glue (still do) and killed cows whenever

they

> needed meat (a daily fare). That is one of the reasons that oxen were do

> popular during the drive out west (USA). If an ox fell ill or if there was

an

> emergency, they could use the animals for meat.

>

> Even today in the U.S. most of the Amish use exclusively animal power; but

> there are no Amish vegetarians nor Amish bhaktas.

>

> Preaching still must go one. No one will become Krishna conscious simply

due

> to fear of a Y2K like oil shortage or simply by using animals in place of

cars

> and trucks - cow protection is an act of devotion to Krishna and the

shastra.

> Even if there is an oil shortage, the people of the world will do that

they

> have always done - stand up, dust themselves off, and continue on in their

> illusory life, compelled by the modes of material nature. At the end of

the

> day,

> they will sit down with meat on their plates.

>

> just some thoughts.

>

> Gopal Das

>

>

> -----------------------

> To from this mailing list, send an email to:

> Cow-Owner (AT) pamho (DOT) net

[Guest guest]

This is a very sound idea , as long as the oxen remain the property of the

temple and are regularly checked upon. the problems are tho whether the

checking will be done, whether register will be maintained or if they will

all too easily just disappear. Farmers may resent interference in their

affairs. and would like to think the oxen are their own property and here

anyway they wouldnt like to sign anything and to return a dead animal is

out of the question to lift the body on a bullock cart and bring, We

have buried our only 2 animals to have died here but these people just let

them lie in the open and the dogs feast. Vultures are extinct now.

 

In this area I would not like to loan my oxen as their standard of living

would deteriorate too much. They would have to scrounge most of the year

on rapidly diappearing common grazing and jungle land.. I am considering

loaning some pairs now they are reaching working age at 4 and 5 years to

local farmers within walking distance ( no transport) for one month during

the monsoon for ploughing the rice fields. but we still have to see they

are not overworked as these farmers tend not to plough themselves but hire

tribals as it is very heavy work in the mud and often torrential rains.

The person will have to be really good and one month is the limit.. A lot

depends on the kind of farmers and the area. ys Labangalatika dasi

-

Syamasundara (das) (Bhaktivedanta Manor - UK) <Syamasundara (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

Rosalie Malik <labangalatika (AT) vsnl (DOT) net>; <Dasgopal (AT) aol (DOT) com>; Cow

(Protection and related issues) <Cow (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

Monday, April 11, 2005 2:15 PM

Kunstler: The Long Emergency - the crash after Peak Oil Production

 

 

> Paul Starkey mentions that without a significant land holding it is not

cost

> effective to have a tractor. Where tractors have been taken up in less

> developed countries it is because of subsidisation and various other

> supports and encouragements.

>

> The main reason persons turn to tractors is prestige.

>

> I like the idea of the temple goshallas being able to supply working oxen

to

> local people. The oxen would remain the property of the temple at all

times

> and would be returned after their working life. They could then be

replaced

> with another younger pair. If oxen die at the farm they would have to be

> returned to the temple. This type of system (only described in great

bravity

> here) would give employment for ISKCONS vast number of working oxen, would

> create a system were local people could keep oxen and work them, would

> prevent oxen entering the slaughter system even when they got past their

> working life. Would help create an atmosphere of wanting oxen from the

> breeding programmes of the ISKCON herds.

>

> I can expand more on this suggestion if required.

>

> ys syam

>

> -----------------------

> To from this mailing list, send an email to:

> Cow-Owner (AT) pamho (DOT) net