This was what I had received:

[Guest guest]

SrI SrI Guru Gaurangau Jayatah

 

Camp: Tula, RF

DaNDavats Dear mahavegavati dasi . Jaya Krishna BalarAma!

Please accept my respectful obeisances. All Glories to Sreela PrabhupAda..

 

Thank you for your letter.

 

> NOT for making any "debate," but just so you will see

> what this sannyasi/guru says, here is the reply I got

> from this Maharaj concerning the drinking of one's own

> urine. (Included is my question to him on top.)

>

If this sannyasi does not accept that mahadeva is the greatest vaisnava and

that therefore his advice on health is to be rejected as tamasic or not fit

for vaisnavas, then what further can be discussed with him?

 

But his end statements that "krsna gives the understanding what to eat and

what to not eat to maintain health" is a bit ambiguous.

 

If we can't come up with substance to back sastric statements, then we are

just like the scientists, "in the future we will create life". blank cheque

statements.

 

if that is true, why are there are so many divergent therapies going around

in iskcon? We are all eating prasadam, but some are reiki walas,

acupressure, acupucture, fasting, breathairians, etc.

 

why the difference? can it be Krsna tells the devotees different things

according to the natures of the devotees?

 

Krsna has indeed mentioned what can be offered to him, herbs, fruits etc.

 

as for this sannyasi, it is obvious, He has made up his own mind as to his

health preferences and He is to be respected for his opinions.but I doubt

he'll read anything up on UT, as he is prejudiced.

 

I suggest others who have not yet decided for themselves should read the

book I suggested and go thru the pramana's.

 

> MAHARAJ'S REPLY

>

> > As a human we have no right to eat or drink

> > anything which is not

> > offerable to God (Krishna).

 

my answer to that:

 

one's own urine is already consisting of things gone thru the blood stream

which were offered to Krsna before. In Iskcon, if you add prasadam to

something, it is already becomes prasadam, thus (if one takes urine to be a

medicine) is already offered.

 

even iskcon jokes about the scientist stating that every 7 years all the

cells change, so that when one eats prasadam for 7 years his cells are

infused with prasadam.

 

> If any one takeS the useless things then he/she will lose the power of

Mantra.

 

but according to Siva (a bigger mahajana then this sannyasi) urine is

nectar, siva-cures-ambhu water, "the water that cures". it is far from

useless!

 

where's his pramana for that? unless he gives pramana, I haven't seen any

reduction of chanting quality or reading SB quality since adopting this

health program for the last 5 months. and APD also says, the movement didn't

break in the zones where devotees did UT.

 

> We may see some improvement of our body to take the Urine.

 

yes. he's right.

 

> But body is not that much important to fulfill the purpose

> of human birth, where we will lose the Krishna-Mantra's power.

 

what about SB 11.20.17 nr deham verse, (the body *is important to fulfill

the goal of human birth*

 

based on SB 11.20.17, I 100% disagree with his analysis...

 

and also SB 1.1.10, health should be maintained for self-realisation

 

where is the evidence that drinking one's own urine by following the

instructions of a mahajana (who has attachment to Krsna nama according to

the sivastakam by lord Caitanya which is in Sri Krsna caitanya caritra Maha

kavya by srila Murari Gupta- on will lose potency of chanting Krsna mantra?

 

this sannyasi should be asked for his pramanas.

 

Srila Murari gupta by including sivastakam in His work, shows that sriman

Mahaprabhu opinion is that Siva has love for God.

 

Sanatana Gosvami did his bhajana near Sivalaya's too. so How can following

siva's instructions be the cause of a drop of potency in chanting krsna

mantra, when even gauranga admits in 3 verses how Siva chants with potency!

 

If the Guru chants with potency, and the followers follow his instructions,

how will they lose potency, unless they chant with offenses?

 

sounds illogical to me, the "maharaja" has to give pramana!

 

If Lord Caitanya says mahadeva is in Love of god by chanting his holy name,

then how could His instructions, stop attachement to the holy name?

 

That is illogical, so This "maharaja" has to give his pramana that if one

drinks his own urine that one will lose potency of Krsna nama.

 

(this is in sanscrit gaudy font.)

 

Sri krsna caitanya caritra maha kavya, 2nd prakrama, 11th sarga, verse

16-17.

 

Then Çréväsa Paëita composed a stotram in praise of Çré Çiva.

 

mahoke sa haris tatra / vartulämbuja-locanaù

jaöilaù çìga-òamaru-vädako räma-gäyakaù 16

 

mahä-uke - on a large bull; saù - He; hariù - Çiva; tatra - there;

vartula - whorl; ambuja-locanaù - lotus-eyed; jaöilaù - matted hair; çìga -

crescent moon; òamaru - drum; vädakaù - musician; räma-gäyakaù - sings about

Lord Räma.

 

"Lord Çiva, whose eyes resemble the whorls of lotuses, is seated on a

great bull. His hair is matted and the crescent moon rests upon his head. He

plays upon the òamaru drum and sings the praise of Çré Räma Candra.

 

babhüva jagatä näthaù / sarvva-deva-mayo haraù

cakre mahimnaù stotra sa / çré-mukundo 'ti-susvaraù

 

avaruhya tataù skandhäd / gäyanasyäviçad vibhuù

sarvve te muditäs tatra / hari-lélä-rasa-plutäù 17

 

babhüva - He became; jagatäm - of all the living beings; näthaù - lord;

sarva-deva-mayaù - the sum total of all gods; haraù - the destroyer; cakre -

he made; mahimnaù - of glorification; stotram - hymn; saù - he; çré-mukundaù

- the physician; ati-su-svaraù - in a very sweet voice; avaruhya -

descended; tataù - then; skandhät - from his shoulders; gäyanasya - of the

singer; aviçat - He sat down; vibhuù - the all-pervasive Lord; sarve - all;

te - they; muditäù - joyous; tatra - there; hari-lélä - pastimes of Hari;

rasa-plutäù - immersed in the mellows.

 

"Thus Hara, the destroyer is the lord of all worlds and living beings, In

Hara is the powers of all the devatäs."

Mukunda sang this song in a very melodious voice. Then the all-pervasive

Lord descended from the shoulders of the singer and sat down. All the

bhaktas present became very jubilant and immersed in the mellows of

Hari-lélä.

 

(from Sri Krsna Caitanya caritra maha kavya, 3rd prakrama, 8th sarga, 13-)

 

Çré Çiväsöakam

composed by Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu

 

namo namas te tri-daçeçvaräya / bhütädi-näthäya mòäya nityam

gaìgä-taraìgotthita-bäla-candra-cüòäya gauré-nayanotsaväya 1

 

nama nama - repeated obeisances; te - to you; tri-daça-éçvaräya - to the

lord of the 30 principal demigods; bhüta - of all beings; ädi-näthäya - unto

the primeval lord; mòäya - to the gracious one; nityam - perpetually;

gaìgä-taraìga - the waves of the Gaìgä; utthita - arises; bäla-candra - by

the new moon; cüòäya - crested; gauré - for the goddess Gauré (the fairest

of women); nayana-utsaväya - to the festival for the eyes.

 

"I perpetually offer obeisances unto you, the lord of the thirty primal

devas, who are the original father of created beings, whose character is

gracious, upon whose head, which is crested by the sickle moon, the Gaìgä

springs, and who are a festival for the eyes of Gauré, the fair goddess.

 

su-tapta-cämékara-candra-néla-padma-pravälämbuda-känti-vastraiù

suntya-raìgeöa-vara-pradäya / kaivalya-näthäya va-dhvajäya 2

 

su-tapta - molten; cämékara - gold; candra - moon; néla-padma - blue

lotus; praväla - budding; ambuda - cloud; känti - luster; vastraiù - with

garments; sa - he; ntya-raìga - of pleasure-dancing; iöa - desired;

vara-pradäya - to you who bestow the boon; kaivalya-näthäya - to the lord of

the monists; va-dhvajäya - to he whose flag bears a bull.

 

"I offer my obeisances to you who resemble a moon of molten gold, who are

dressed in garments colored like a group of budding blue lotuses or lustrous

rainclouds, who bestow the most desirable boon to your devotees by your

delightful dancing, who offer shelter to those who seek to become one with

the transcendental effulgence of Godhead, and whose flag bears the image of

the bull.

 

sudhäçu-süryägni-vilocanena / tamo-bhide te jagataù çiväya

sahasra-çubhräçu-sahasra-raçmi-sahasra-saïjittvara-tejase 'stu 3

 

sudhä-açu - nectar-rayed (moon); sürya - sun; agni - fire; vilocanena -

by your eyes; tamo-bhide - the dissipater of darkness; te - to you; jagataù

- of the cosmos; çiväya - for auspiciousness; sahasra - a thousand;

çubhra-açu - white-rayed (moon) sahasra-raçmi - the thousand-rayed sun;

sahasra - a thousand; saïjit - completely defeated; tvara - swift; tejase -

to you whose power; astu - let it be.

 

"I offer my obeisances to you who dispel darkness with your three eyes -

the moon, the sun, and fire - and thus cause auspiciousness for all the

living entities of the universe, and whose potency easily defeats thousands

of moons and suns.

 

nägeça-ratnojjvala-vigrahäya / çärddüla-carmäçuka-divya-tejase

sahasra-patropari sasthitäya / varäìgadämukta-bhuja-dvayäya 4

 

näga-éça - the king of snakes; ratna - gems; ujjvala - luminous;

vigrahäya - to you whose form; çärdüla-carma - skins of tigers; açuka -

garments; divya-tejase - to you of divine potency; sahasra-patra-upari -

upon a thousand-petalled lotus; sasthitäya - to you who stand; vara-aìgada -

with beautiful bangles; ämukta - dressed; bhuja-dvayäya - to you whose two

arms are such.

 

"I offer my obeisances to you, whose form is brilliantly illuminated by

the jewels of Ananta-deva, the king of snakes, who possess divine potencies

and are clothed in a tiger-skin, who stands in the midst of a

thousand-petalled lotus, and whose two arms are adorned by lustrous bangles.

 

su-nüpuräraïjita-päda-padma-karat-sudhä-bhtya-sukha-pradäya

vicitra-ratnaugha-vibhüitäya / premänam evädya harau vidhehi 5

 

su-nüpura - fine anklebells; äraïjita - reddish; päda-padma - lotus feet;

karat - flowing; sudhä - nectar; bhtya - to your servants; sukha-pradäya -

to you who give joy; vicitra - wonderful; ratna-ogha - a multitude of

jewels; vibhüitäya - to you who are adorned; premänam - love; eva -

certainly; adya - today; harau - for Hari; vidhehi - You should endow.

 

"I offer my obeisances to you who bestow happiness to your servitors as

you pour upon them the liquid nectar flowing from your reddish lotus feet,

upon which charming anklebells ring. Obeisances unto you who are adorned by

an abundance of gems. Please endow Me today with pure love for Çré Hari.

 

çré-räma govinda mukunda çaure / çré-këa näräyaëa väsudeva

ity ädi-nämämta-päna-matta-bhìgädhipäyäkhila-duùkha-hantre 6

 

çré-räma - O splendid reservoir of pleasure!; govinda - O awarder of

delight to the cows, the senses and the land!; mukunda - O giver of

liberation!; çaure - O hero!; çré-këa - O all-attractive!; nära-ayaëa - O

shelter of mankind!; väsudeva - O all-pervading Lord, son of Vasudeva!; iti

- thus; ädi - headed by; näma-amta - nectarean names; päna - drinking; matta

- intoxicated; bhìga - bee; adhipäya - unto the monarch; akhila - all;

duùkha-hantre - unto the slayer of grief.

 

"`O Çré Räma! O Govinda! O Mukunda! O Çauri! O Çré Kåñëa! O Näräyaëa! O

Väsudeva!' I offer my obeisances unto you, Çré Çiva, who are the monarch

ruling over all the bee-like devotees who are mad to drink the nectar of

these and other innumerable names of Hari, and who thus destroys all grief.

 

çré-näradädyaiù satata sugopya-jijïäsitäyäçu vara-pradäya

tebhyo harer bhakti-sukha-pradäya / çiväya sarvva-gurave namaù 7

 

çré-närada-ädyaiù - by those headed by Närada Muni; satatam - always;

su-gopya - very confidential; jijïäsitäya - to you who are inquired of; äçu

- easily; vara-pradäya - to you who give boons; tebhya - to them; hare - of

Lord Hari; bhakti-sukha-pradäya - to you who give the joy of devotional

service; çiväya - to the auspicious; sarva-gurave - to the guru of all;

namaù - obeisances.

 

"I offer my respectful obeisances to you, Çré Çiva, who are forever

inquired of confidentially by Çré Närada and other great sages, who very

easily bestow boons on them, who bestow the happiness of Hari-bhakti to

those who seek boons of you, who thereby create auspiciousness and are thus

the guru of everyone.

 

çré-gauré-netrotsava-maìgaläya / tat-präëa-näthäya rasa-pradäya

sadä samutkaëöha-govinda-lélä-gäna-pravéëäya namo 'stu tubhyam 8

 

çré-gauré-netra - for the eyes of Çré Gauré; utsava-maìgaläya - to you

who are an auspicious festival; tat-präëa-näthäya - to the lord of Gauré's

life breath; rasa-pradäya - to the giver of rasa; sadä - always; samutkaëöha

- with great longing; govinda-lélä - of the pastimes of Govinda;

gäna-pravéëäya - to the expert singer; nama - obeisances; astu - let there

be; tubhyam - to you.

 

"I offer my obeisances to you who are a festival of auspiciousness for the

eyes of Gauré, who are the lord of her life-energy, who bestow rasa and are

expert in forever singing songs with eagerness of the pastimes of Govinda."

 

* * *

 

etat çivasyäsöakam adbhuta mahat / çëvan hari-prema labheta çéghram

jïäna ca vijïänam apürvva-vaibhava / yo bhäva-pürëaù parama samädaram 9

 

etat - this; çivasya - of Çiva; aöakam - eight verses; adbhutam -

astonishing; mahat - great; çëvan - hearing; hari-prema - love for Hari;

labheta - one can get; çéghram - swiftly; jïänam - knowledge; ca - and;

vijïänam - realized knowledge; apürva-vaibhavam - unprecedented opulence; ya

- who; bhäva-pürëaù - filled with ecstasy; paramam - intense; samädaram -

attention.

 

A person who lovingly hears with rapt attention this wonderful eightfold

prayer to Çré Çiva, can quickly gain Çré Hari-prema as well as

transcendental knowledge, the realization of that knowledge, and

unprecedented devotional potency.

 

> > Krishna-Mantra's power will increase everything, if we take which is

> > offerable to Lord Krishna. Also, this Krishna mantra is giving us

> > opportunity to fulfill all our desire. If we have desire to keep our >

body okay then Krishna will give us intelligence, which

> > is drinkable or eatable for keeping our body fit.

 

ok If Krsna has told him how to keep his own body fit for free, then let

him give that therapy to all of us so we can keep our bodies fit for service

without exhaustion like I see so many of my fellow sannyasis fall into.

 

they have to keep to heavy diets, keep 20 kilos trampoline with them etc.

where;s his positive systematic therapy to replace Siva's therapy?

 

otherwise, he is simple postulating and giving us all a blank cheque.

 

I see Siva has given sastric practical - ayurvedic therapy that works.

where's this sannyasi's ayurvedic degree?

 

where's his therapy?

 

I for one am very eager for any alternative therapies that the mass of

devotees can follow for free.

 

Mahabhagavati dasi you must ask him for a substantial theraputic program to

follow taking Manu's slokas that APD has kindly given us, then we will all

be interested to incorporate that in our sadhana and livestyles and we can

then have an alternative to Siva's therapy which is followed by millions of

people around the world.

 

thus far this sannyasi has not given more then empty promises, "in the

future Krsna will give. what does he have to say , If i tell you that I

think by Krsna's grace Gopesvar mahadeva has given this as His (mercy)

prasadam?

 

I see that both GM sannyasi's and iskcon Sannyasi's and their disciples

are taking shelter of Hospitals and spending thousands upon thousands of $

on advanced chemotherapy for cancer.

 

so what happened? "Did Krsna fail to tell those devotees who are so

surrendered to Him how to keep their body fit?"

 

or did those great souls simply neglect to maintain their bodies as the

property of their gurus, and Then Krsna had to take them away from us and

leave us lamenting that we have lost their sanga, in a world where less and

less devotees join Iskcon today!

 

granted at the end of life, when one is being taken by Krsna, only

caranamrtam and harinama are the medicine for all..but before that, no harm

in maintainance by simple cheap therapies.

 

I await this sannyasi's systematic therapy. In the meantime, keeping in mind

Manus' instructions about the unsuitability of human urine, I will thus

prefer cow urine as much as possible, and I will still use Siva's

instructions as well in regards to cows urine.

 

but If I can't get cows urine, and my health and vitality drops, (and

therefore my ability to preach and serve my guru without excessive

exhaustion, I will probably resort to Siva's instructions and take my own

urine if it helps me get back my health.

 

TridaNDi BhikSu, Bhakti Visrambha MAdhava