A few replies here

[Guest guest]

Dear Mark prabhu,

 

Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. PAMFO I

hope all is well.

 

I agree that there is a lot more to not offending

someone than praying that we haven't. There is also

more to Krsna consciousness than simply being either a

blind follower or "blind" to things that may require

looking at. Srila Prabhupada did NOT want us to be

foolishly surrendered and accepting of things which

were wrong, as this in and of itself can dilute and

cause compromisation, even ruination to the PURE

philosphy of Krsna consciousness. For SO MANY years, I

was one of those FULLY (100%) surrendered devotees,

completely submitting myself to authorities and their

instructions which I (now) KNOW FOR A FACT that Srila

Prabhupada would NEVER have wanted or expected. By

Krsna's mercy, finally to some extent I was awakened,

and in so doing, I feel it is part of my service to

His Divine Grace, to speak out sometimes to HELP other

devotees to use PROPER discrimination, so that they

will NOT have to undergo too much UNnecessary pain

themselves at the hands of cheaters.

 

Here are Srila Prabhupada's OWN words from His purport

to BG 10.4 (Sorry, but I don't own a computer and

don't have a Veda Base, so I can't quote you anything

more. But I did bring the Bhagavad Gita today, so I

can write this out here for you today.) Besides the

other things I'm going to type here which Srila

Prabhupada has said in this purport - and I believe we

can accept that this is what Srila Prabhupada Himself

has said - please specifically note His Divine Grace's

comments concerning "satyam," (truthfulness).

 

I'm also going to add at the end of Srila Prabhupada's

purport, the email I received from one of the prabhus

on the list (without given hir name, since maybe Mark

you might be upset this person wrote to me as s/he

did) since s/he said s/he wanted to send hir email to

the respective devotees, but was not sure how to send

hir reply to everyone else on the list.

 

SRILA PRABHUPADA'S WORDS from BG 10.4 purport:

 

"Intelligence refers to the power of analyzing things

in proper perspective, and knowledge refers to

understanding what is spirit and what is matter...

 

"Asammoha, freedom from doubt and delusion, can be

achieved when one is not hesitant and when he

understands the transcendental philosophy. Slowly but

surely he becomes free from bewilderment.

 

PLEASE NOTE WHAT SRILA PRABHUPADA SAYS HERE:

 

"Nothing should be accepted blindly; everything should

be accepted with care and with caution...

 

"Satyam, truthfulness, means that facts should be

presented as they are for the benefit of others. Facts

should not be misrepresented. According to social

conventions, it is said that one can speak the truth

only when it is palatable to others. But that is not

truthfulness. The truth should be spoken in a straight

and forward way, so that others will understand

actually what the facts are. If a man is a thief and

if people are warned that he is a thief, that is

truth. Although sometimes the truth is unpalatable,

one should not refrain from speaking it. Truthfulness

demands that the facts be presented as they are for

the benefit of others. That is the definition of

truth.

 

"Self-control means that the senses should not be used

for unnecessary personal enjoyment. There is no

prohibition against meeting the proper needs of the

senses, but unnecessary sense enjoyment is detrimental

for spiritual advancement."

 

HERE IS THIS PRABHU'S EMAIL TO ME: (I've blocked out

the name of the sannyasi they referred to.)

 

--- <.com> wrote:

 

> Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:38:03 -0700 (PDT)

> <.com>

> Re: On a different note

> "Mahavegavati Dasi \(ACBSP\)" <mvvd >

>

> I am not ssure how to ssend an email to everyone on

> the list, including youo, at the same time, but i

> really appreciate your courage to speak out on

> beahlf of all the "little dvotees", and point out

> the various unjustices that go on in ISKCON and the

> unfairness that exists. I have felt for a long time

> that there is a lot of impersonalism when it comes

> to nicely caring for our devotes, and how the "big

> devotees" seem oblivious regarding the care of their

> godbrothers and godsisters. THey have allowed

> themselves to become very insulated. I got the

> feeling that maybe the sanyassi you were speakinbg

> of was XXX Swami as far as spending a lot

> of money on health, and I heard that there may have

> been some sexual falldowns as well.

>

 

END OF THIS PRABHU'S EMAIL

 

To you Marc:

 

Maybe you don't feel any disturbance to see how many

devotees have been so HURT (or maybe you are still

very new, and are not aware of what has gone on, some

of which is STILL going on) by some of the "more

advanced" devotees - the "higher ups" in ISKCON - but

being a devotee since 1967, and having had to live

though so much myself, and see SO MUCH of what has

happened to other devotees, I finally WOKE UP, and in

doing so, I not only feel the pain with relation to

myself being so abused, but feel VERY GREATLY the pain

of OTHER devotees who I KNOW were SO abused, and whose

pain is still with them, including those devotees who

were sexually molested and abused in other ways by

some of these "advanced devotees" who even to this day

are "eating up" the $ of so many innocent and GOOD,

sincere (innocent) devotees.

 

(I may add that for YEARS, even up into the late

1990s, I was one of those fully surrendered devotees.

I simply accepted and believed that I was SUPPOSED to

accept all of the abuse I was made to undergo under

the banner of "bad karma that I 'was working off'" but

Srila Prabhupada was NOT propagating this philosophy;

that devotee leaders should be exploiting and/or

abusing devotees, especially for their OWN

MATERIALISTIC purposes.

 

IN FACT, in 1977, Srila Prabhupada ordered that the

giving of sannyas be STOPPED due to the fact that some

of the sannyasis at THAT point in time were ABUSING

their posistion as sannyasis, and were living quite

luxuriently at the expense of other devotees. Srila

Prabhupada ALSO ordered that the airplane travel for

sannyasis be STOPPED! (because it was being abused).

 

If you feel that my speaking in such a TRUTHFUL

manner, is "offensive," then I will have to once again

ask your forgiveness in my being so truthful, and

refer you to this verse which Srila Prabhupada Himself

would quote: sach bale tomare lutha jutha jagat

mohaye; "When one tells lies, everyone is enchanted,

and when one tells the truth, he is beaten with

sticks." If I have to get beaten with sticks for

speaking the truth, then so be it. I've gone through a

LOT "WORSE" than that in rendering direct service (in

terms of bodily affliction) to Guru and Krsna.

 

I pray that all is well.

 

May Srila Prabhupada bless us all.

 

Your servant,

 

Mahavegavati Dasi

Hare Krsna

 

--- Mark Middle Mountain <gourdmad (AT) ovnet (DOT) com> wrote:

>

>

> > I pray that I haven't offended anyone by this

> post. I

> > just felt I had to say this.

>

> There is a lot more to not offending someone than

> praying you haven't.

>