Mataji and Prabhu

[Guest guest]

There's a practical problem here, particularly in written

communications, or when speaking about someone in the third person:

 

It seems like the conclusion of this discussion so far is to address

women as 'Mataji' or 'Mother' and men, not just as 'Prabhu', but also

as '[name] prabhu', so one would write a letter either "Dear mataji",

or "Dear Govinda prabhu". The problem seems to me not that the term

'mataji' is offensive, or less honorific than 'prabhu'; the problem

is that addressing a person as simply 'mataji', 'prabhu' or 'sir',

without their name, is impersonal, imprecise and potentially ambiguous.

 

Srila Prabhupada seems to has no problems putting a woman's name

together with 'mataji', as the following letter shows:

 

22 May 69

My Dear Mukunda,

....I have also received letters from Yamuna, Gurudasa, as well as one

letter from Mataji Syamadevi in Hindi. ...

When Mataji Syamadevi came to see me in Los Angeles she was very

respectful to me... On the whole, Mataji Syamadevi is ready to

cooperate with me,

 

but then, as Giri-nayaka Prabhu pointed out:

 

Devotee: When you address a woman do you use the word "Mataji"? Is that the

right, proper word for her?

Prabhupada: Mataji. Yes, very good. "Mother." All right. Chant. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 4.14 -- Vrndavana, August 6, 1974

=====

Prabhupada: These are all bogus things. One should train himself that

matravat para-daresu, all women, "my mother." Then it will be possible to

live... Therefore the etiquette is to address every woman, "Ma, ma, mother."

That is the etiquette.

Brahmananda: You say like "Mother Rukmini"? There's a devotee named Rukmini.

You say, "Mother Rukmini"? How do you address a woman? Do you say, "Mother,"

and then the name of the devotee?

Prabhupada: No. "Mother," simply.

Brahmananda: Just "Mother."

Prabhupada: Yes. They should be addressed, "Mother." That will train.

Indian man (4): In our Indian culture they don't call the name of the mother

never, children don't.

Prabhupada: No. "Mother," simply "mother," that's all. And if the woman

treats man as son, then it is all right. It is safe.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi

 

The third and final quotation appears to refer to directly addressing

a woman in the second person, like when I speak *to* my actual

mother, I call her 'Mum', but when I speak about her, I have to

expand, "my mum", or in writing sometimes, her full name.

 

So, surely we should combine common sense, Srila Prabhupada's

instructions and example, general and vaishnava etiquette, to address

women by either 'Mother'/'Mataji' or [name], or 'Mother'/'Mataji'

[name] as appropriate.

 

Ys Arjunanatha dasa

 

 

 

>--- "Braja Sevaki TKG" <Braja.Sevaki.TKG (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote:

>

>"Braja Sevaki TKG" <Braja.Sevaki.TKG (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

>Thu, 11 Aug 2005 19:30 -0400

>"Christopher Shannon" <cshannon (AT) netscape (DOT) com>

>Cc: "India (Continental Committee) Open (Forum)" <India.Open (AT) pamho (DOT) net>,

> "ISKCON Temple Presidents" <ISKCON.Temple.Presidents (AT) pamho (DOT) net>,

> "Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN)" <Basu.Ghosh.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

>The real question is why "Mother" is considered offensive.

>

> >

> > Notice how the inclusion of the next sentence "Just like in England

> > there is queen." changes the meaning of the quoted passage? Now it is

> > clear that Srila Prabhupada is talking about offering appropriate forms

> > of respect to people in a higher position, not advocating the use of a

> > specific form of address.

>

>Mother Braja Sevaki wrote:

>

>'So you are concluding that there is not a single living entity in ISKCON in a

>female body who is "in a higher position" than you, simply because she's in a

>female body. . .'

>

>I am merely pointing out a discrepancy in Mother Vishakha's use of the

>reference. Others should take note of this and make necessary adjustments.

>Mother Vishakha in particular should correct this oversight, noting that, like

>this misquote, other quotes in her thesis are not necessarily about

>appropriate

>forms of addressing women--that is all.

>

>Mother Braja Sevaki wrote: 'Just because a woman is considered "mother"

>doesn't negate the fact that she is also "master."'

>

>This is a perfectly acceptable idea. Aside from that, the real issue seems to

>be objections to "Mother" as an appropriate form of addressing women, at least

>within Vaishnava society.

>

>Your servant, Krishna-kirti das (HDG)

 

 

--

 

 

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