The real question is why Mother is considered offensive.

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:36 -0400, Braja Sevaki TKG <

Braja.Sevaki.TKG (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote:

>

> > On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 09:09 +0530, Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN) <

> > Basu.Ghosh.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote:

> > >

> > > Well, I just read the ongoing correspondence on this subject, and find

> > > that

> > > Giri Nayaka Prabhu presented the "incontrovertable evidence" that

> Srila

> > > Prabhupada wanted women to be addressed as "mataji" or "mother".Not

> > > "prabhu".

> >

> >

> > Actually, it's not incontrovertible.

>

> At last! Thank you

 

 

Well, if it were incontrovertible, how is there so much controversy, with

quotations from Srila Prabhupada on both sides? We're all too full of

ourselves, I think, and too unwilling to accept that our understanding is

really quite limited.

 

And as Gauri prabhu pointed out, no intelligent discussion is going to ensue

> in an email format

 

 

It's unlikely, to be sure. Look at the ritvik question. (No--I don't want to

get us started; it's just an example.)

 

.....quote pasting isn't proof that one has heard all of

> Srila Prabhupada's words and has understood his intent, purpose, mission.

 

 

I believe that should be self evident by now.

 

Yours in service,

Babhru das

[Guest guest]

Braja Sevaki TKG wrote:

 

>>Mother Braja Sevaki wrote: 'Just because a woman is considered "mother"

>>doesn't negate the fact that she is also "master."'

>>

>>This is a perfectly acceptable idea. Aside from that, the real issue

>>seems to be objections to "Mother" as an appropriate form of addressing

>>women, at least within Vaishnava society.

>>

>>

>

>No, I think the the real issue seems to be that some men can't accept the

>concept of women as "prabhu". Really. And your constant objection to it

>labels you as one of them.

>

>

 

After I agreed that a woman being master is "a perfectly acceptable

idea," I find it amazing that you accuse me of rejecting the very idea I

endorsed. Since you won't respond rationally, there is no point in

trying to carry on a discussion with you.

[Guest guest]

> > And if you're going to lean on the tired old line of "women should be

> > seen as mother," then reconsider: Just because a woman is considered

> > "mother" doesn't negate the fact that she is also "master."

>

> Excuse me, mother, it is because women are mother that they are also

> master. Mother is the first guru in the life of every human being. No man

> can disobey mother, not even Pandavas, the most powerful men that walked

> on this earth. Therefore, desire to be honored as mother.

>

> YS PD

Dear Paradhyeya Prabhu,

 

Hare Krishna. PAMHO, AGTSP.

 

Are you advising Braja Sevaki to do something that Lord Chaitanya advises

against?

 

tŠ€d api su-n…cena

taror iva sahiŠun€

am€nin€ m€na-dena

k…rtan…yaƒ sad€ hariƒ

 

“‘One who thinks himself lower than the grass, who is more tolerant than a

tree, AND WHO DOES NOT EXPECT PERSONAL HONOUR but is always prepared to give

all respect to others can very easily always chant the holy name of the

Lord.’

 

We are not here to learn to think of ourselves as mothers. We are here to

learn to see ourselves as das das anudas. Mother is not eternal. It is a

designation which goes with the body. Prabhupada's reason for instructing us

to call each other Prabhu was to help us learn this, to get us off the

bodily platform. Most devotees on this thread who are in favour of the terms

mataji and mother (I personally don't care as long as I'm addressed without

a sneer!) are trying to make the women accept that they are women but we're

not! We are spirit souls also. So please encourage us in this vein.

Otherwise, as Praghosa Prabhu has pointed out, we can make your lives very

miserable

 

Sent with motherly affection!

Your servant

Ramadevi dasi