Response to Jayadvaita Maharaj's recommended article

[Guest guest]

Comment by Nikhilananda Dasa:

 

I share the concerns of Arjunanath and Basu Ghosh Prabhu: Let's say even -

if - some of the guesses presented are true - who are we to do something

about it ? Get involved in politics ? You must be joking...

 

Let me add with much seriousness, after having done a little humble

preaching myself in Muslim countries etc., devotees should be very careful

not to get deeply involved with such political issues in public, it may

back fire and needlessly create obstacles for devotees who are

successfully preaching the message of Love in some parts of the world even

now. Caitanya's mercy is waiting..

..

Whatever happens in this crazy world let us not forget focussing on our

mission first - that is one of love, peace and universal Krishna

consciousness, for people of all countries, cultures and from all

confessions. Let Cesar and Bush and the Mullah or whoever do his thing and

let us do our thing. To do teh duty of another person is always difficult.

 

Whatever the truth behind 9/11 - it is complex enough so that none of us

will be able to figure out the whole truth in total, from either side. In

that sense, it remains simply mundane gossip or in other words to a large

extent speculation. Anyone can have his opinion, it is sometimes

interesting to hear it. But there should be no space for that in official

iskcon publications. It is good to remember sometimes that iskcon

publications are meant to only publish that which we know for sure and

which presents a spiritual view point based firmly on a universal

transcendental vision as received from HDG Srila PRabhupada through

paramapara.

 

And now please do not jump on me... I am not good in debates, I am not

like-able, I am not conservative, I am not liberal, I am not this I am not

that, I am usually never attending any pamhonet conferences and in fact

not ANY internet debates at all. I just came across this text by

coincidence today and had to drop my loving poison. Please forgive me... I

am still your friend, a tiny spirit soul and we all LOVE each other deeply

as devotees - especially when we meet outside of the web some time - far

away from "world politics"... I confess to you (shame): I left the

internet world a few years ago (artially financial, partially over

sensitivity reasons)- and even worse: I have NEVER regretted it since...

So many greetings from outer space....

 

Simply remember every now and then: Some scientists claim they have

discovered an unbelievable new theory some time. They actually say that

there IS LIFE OUTSIDE of the WW WEB. Whow.... a bold vision.... :-)

 

So the world keeps turning round and round, wether you click the button or

you don't and wether you drop your opinion and make twelve new enemies

among the "other party" or you don't...

 

 

Yr svt ND

[Guest guest]

> Well you certainly come over as overly emotional about your beliefs.

 

Maybe she seems overly emotional to you. To me she seems ten times more

rational and reasonable than you do.

 

> You have yet to point to factual evidence of your claim that ISKCON

> is pervaded by American materialism, or that materialism in America

> is somehow of a greater influence on ISKCON than materialism in other

> countries.

 

America is the country that defines the particular brand of modern

materialism that the world is facing now a days. They define the values and

norm sets of the global culture. I don't know where you grew up but in the

rest of the Western world children are being brainwashed with Disney and

Powerrangers from the time they can hold up their heads on their own accord

and are placed before the TV. Hollywood have defined how a whole world

should behave, dress, talk, smoke, wear their hair etc. I have seen Bombay

Hindu kids sit at a cafe and smoke Marlboros and try to look like their

heroes from Hollywood. My son walks around in jeans with the crotch hanging

down his knees. Where do you think he got that from?

 

The proof that this particular brand of materialism has greater influence in

ISKCON than any other is that the demand for the way we communicate and

address each other has to follow the particular style of hypocrisy and

political correctness as defined by America. The American demand for a

glossy facade has spilled over into ISKCON. As long as the wrapping is nice

screw the content. As you yourself is such a good example of, you can be as

vicious, smug and passive aggressive as you like, just as long as you don't

say things straight out and see to that your words are packaged nicely.

 

The further proof is that every times someone dares opens his mouth and

point this out, he is branded a conspiracy theorist or an offender. The

tactic of branding anyone who doesn't buy your BS as a conspiracy theorist

was invented by Americans. The final proof that Americanism is spilling over

into ISKCON is that every time anyone says anything remotely critical of

America, American devotees become all huffy and puffy and indignant as hell.

If you don't identify as an American why would you take any offence

whatsoever about what someone says about America? I have talked to American

devotees after the 9-11 who were all up in arms and saying things like 'WE

are going after these terrorists'. After 9-11 we were told by an American

devotee that now is not the time to speak about karma and philosophy.

 

I don't know if it still like that, but ISKCON used to be comprised mostly

of American devotees. I have been debating with people on the internet for

the last decade, and by far most of them are Americans, and I would be hard

challenged to find more deluded, self-righteous, self-important people so

steeped in the conviction of their own cultural superiority than Americans.

Do you suggest that all American devotees are so pure and free from false

ego that their upbringing is not going to influence how they think about

ISKCON and the rest of the world?

 

In fact, it is an impossible situation that ISKCON should not be influenced

mainly by the American type of false ego.

 

> > Anti-Americanism *is* anti-materialism,

>

> No, that's not true. There is materialism in every country of the

> world. There are also good qualities about American society. Do you

> deny this?

 

The only good thing to ever have come out of America is the Hare Krishna

movement.

 

'dvaite' bhadrabhadra-jnana, saba -- ‘manodharma'

'ei bhala, ei manda', -- ei saba ‘bhrama'

 

TRANSLATION

"In the material world, conceptions of good and bad are all mental

speculations. Therefore, saying ‘This is good' and ‘This is bad' is all a

mistake.

 

I know I myself is guilty of that, I just thought I'd throw it in, anyway.

 

> One should endeavor to remove all material influences not just

> Americanism but also anti-Americanism from ISKCON, however up till

> now you have not given factual documentation of these. There are good

> points to American culture like freedom of religion and freedom of

> speech, which some countries do not have.

 

You are really deluded if you think there is free speech and free religion

in America. Everyone there is tightly controlled how to speak and how to

think and believe. But what do you care about this or that in ISKCON? You

are not even IN ISKCON.

 

> > Surely you aren't thinking that America is equal to

> > every other country? That's not an acceptable conclusion either.

>

> America certainly is equal to every other country in the sense that

> it's people are materialistic. However there are also a great

> majority of Americans who are religious whereas there are some other

> countries where this is not so. If America was so materialistic then

> why did Krsna Conciousness flourish there under Srila Prabhupada's

> influence?

 

Because of Srila Prabhupada's purity and genius. What else?

 

> You have yet to give any facts to support your American conspiracy in

> ISKCON theory. Without facts it is just another crackpot idea with

> little validity. Naturally there is a large influence of American

> Vaisnavas in ISKCON, because America has the most temples, the oldest

> and most disciples of HDG Srila Prabhupada and it is where the

> movement flourished and spread from. The most senior devotees are

> mostly Americans and most of the GBC members are also. This does not

> mean that American materialism has infected ISKCON.

 

The very facts you mention above are exactly the undeniable proof that

American materialism has infected ISKCON. How could it not?

 

>You should either

> stop being offensive or offer some concrete proof of your wild

> statements.

 

That's rich coming from you.