Guest guest Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Content-Type: message/partial; total=3; id="01C5BFEA.2B0641D0@Vaikunta"; number=2 h (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN)" <<A=20 href=3D"Basu.Ghosh.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net">Basu.Ghosh.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net</A>= >;<BR>"Bhavananda=20 (das) ACBSP" <<A=20 href=3D"Bhavananda.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net">Bhavananda.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net</A>= >;=20 "Pancaratna ACBSP"<BR><<A=20 href=3D"Pancaratna.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net">Pancaratna.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net</A>= >;=20 "Ambarisa prabhu" <<A=20 href=3D"abford (AT) earthlink (DOT) net">abford (AT) earthlink (DOT) net</A>>;<BR>"Ja= hnu=20 (Dvipa das JPS) (Mayapur - IN)" <<A=20 href=3D"Jahnu (AT) pamho (DOT) net">Jahnu (AT) pamho (DOT) net</A>>; "Sadbhuja=20 das<BR>(Mayapur)" <<A=20 href=3D"Sadbhuja.das (AT) pamho (DOT) net">Sadbhuja.das (AT) pamho (DOT) net</A>>; = "solai"=20 <<A href=3D"solai (AT) pamho (DOT) net">solai (AT) pamho (DOT) net</A>>;=20 "India<BR>(Continental Committee) Open (Forum)" <<A=20 href=3D"India.Open (AT) pamho (DOT) net">India.Open (AT) pamho (DOT) net</A>><BR>Sent= :=20 Wednesday, September 21, 2005 8:43 AM<BR>Response to Solai's = letter on=20 Chakra<BR><BR><BR>> = =20 = =20 = =20 = =20 MINOR<BR>> The Long Term Impact of Criticizing the /\ Mission of the=20 Founder-acarya<BR>>=20 ______________________<= BR></DIV> <DIV>Mataji says,<BR><BR>> The temptation to ignore the complaints of = "Solai"=20 ("The Long Term Impact<BR>> Of<BR>> Urbanizing Mayapur," Chakra, = September=20 19 2005) is a strong one. Yet when<BR>> Srila Prabhup=E4da's mission = and=20 followers are criticized in an attempt to<BR>> justify one's = viewpoint, it=20 becomes a matter of necessity rather than<BR>> choice<BR>> to = ignore such=20 criticism and speak on behalf of Srila Prabhup=E4da. In his<BR>> = final=20 Vyasa-puja offering to Srila Prabhup=E4da, HH Tamal Krishna = Goswami<BR>> asked=20 the question: "Who speaks for Srila Prabhup=E4da?" His answer was = that<BR>>=20 everyone has their place, and our contributions to the mission of = Srila<BR>>=20 Prabhup=E4da, even while riddled with faults, should be taken = into<BR>>=20 consideration.<BR>><BR>> Yet while Solai's interest in the = ecological=20 impact constitutes a great<BR>> portion of his text, his points are = based on=20 the faulty misconception that<BR>> the pursuit of fulfilling the = spiritual=20 master's desires is a burden to<BR>> certain aspects of society, and = should=20 be reconsidered so as not to upset<BR>> the status quo of the street = and the=20 ecological balance of the area, which<BR>> is, I'm informed, a = shifting=20 balance, and one that the Sri M=E4y=E4pur Project<BR>> staff have = taken into=20 consideration in their years and years of research<BR>> into the = construction=20 of the Temple of the Vedic Planetarium: Srila<BR>> Prabhup=E4da's = dream for Sri=20 M=E4y=E4pur-dh=E4ma.<BR><BR>Can anyone come forward to publicly disclose = how much=20 money has been spent<BR>or wasted so far on this preoperative = feasibility=20 studies? Do you know it is<BR>mind boggling!<BR>Our main mission is = preaching=20 and book distribution.<BR>Traditionally we have simple places of = worship, temple=20 worship is less<BR>important in our sampradaya, do we wish to depart = from this=20 tradition and</DIV> <DIV>convert ISKCON devotees in to labors to build magical temples<BR>in = the=20 guise of fulfilling SP's mission? SP our beloved spiritual = master<BR>also gave=20 us a loop hole, adapt to changing needs and = circumstances<BR>intelligently, can=20 we not use this liberty in this issue?<BR>If we are serious in our = environment=20 and sustainability concerns, we should<BR>Prove it first by maintaining = the Bath=20 rooms in the ground floor of Chakra<BR>or Long building to the = acceptable=20 standards of our Authorities. </DIV> <DIV>Why the authorities should maintain locked bathrooms, near the MP = office=20 </DIV> <DIV>in the second floor of long building?</DIV> <DIV>It is obvious that filth is not tolerable to vested interests and = the=20 common laymen </DIV> <DIV>devotee should endure this filthy environment.</DIV> <DIV>We want to cage ourselves in a green, clean environment = and not=20 bothered </DIV> <DIV>about others. This is the logic of sustainability of SMPDC=20 authorities.<BR>Our greatest achievement is, we have built long rows of = toilets=20 on the banks<BR>of mother Ganges during last year's GP festivals!</DIV> <DIV>we were concerned about the spread of deadly disease like Calera = etc </DIV> <DIV>and provided Bath rooms in the river bank for public use, an NGO=20 activity!</DIV> <DIV>The cause of this pathetic situation is, ISKCON = promoted=20 unsustainable tourism in the Dham.</DIV> <DIV>I have completely studied the report prepared by ENVIRON, these=20 proposals<BR>will never work and will never be implemented by ISKCON, If = any one=20 wants to<BR>know why, I can elaborate and substantiate my claims = scientifically=20 with the<BR>help from "The Indian Institute Science", = Bangalore.<BR>There=20 are several acharyas and spiritual masters every where, if = their<BR>disciples=20 start implementing the fanatical desires of their achryas against<BR>the = law of=20 the land in a democratic country, it will create havoc in=20 the<BR>society.<BR><BR>Mataji says,<BR>> I'm not qualified to respond = to=20 ecological issues, but I'm certainly sure<BR>> that offensive doesn't = fall=20 into the category of "uniting us all and<BR>> understanding that our = strength=20 lay in differences" that Tamal Krishna<BR>> Goswami was referring to = when he=20 spoke of everyone being encouraged to<BR>> = contribute.<BR>><BR>> Solai=20 writes:<BR>><BR>> Authorities in ISKCON are not willing to take = the local=20 population<BR>> or other Vaishnava communities in to confidence to = establish=20 the<BR>> need for such a massive temple and infrastructural=20 facilities.<BR>><BR>> The "need" for such a massive temple is not=20 dependent on the whims or<BR>> opinion of local villagers who remain=20 mostly ignorant of the mission of<BR>> Lord Caitanya-an = ignorance that=20 other maths have found just as difficult<BR>> to<BR>> address as = ISKCON.=20 Nor is Srila Prabhup=E4da's mission dependent upon the<BR>> approval = of maths=20 run by his godbrothers. This statement shows a complete<BR>> lack of=20 knowledge of Srila Prabhup=E4da's history with his own = godbrothers,<BR>> and=20 his entire life purpose. Is it too much to expect that one who is = so<BR>>=20 determined to make public statements might be armed with knowledge=20 first?<BR><BR>We are part of a democratic society, we cannot arrogantly = assume=20 that others<BR>are ignorant, it applies to us also! I am not boasting I = am=20 knowledgeable,<BR>But I know I have wisdom and intuition!<BR>Data---> = When=20 organized leads to Information--- when assimilated<BR>leads to = Knowledge---=20 condensed through expertise leads to<BR>Wisdom!!!!!<BR>Gathering = knowledge is=20 never ending, we can be sure our knowledge is<BR>infinitesimally small = compared=20 to the world of knowledge. (There is a saying<BR>in Tamil "Katrathu = Kaiman=20 alavu, Kalathathu ulgalavu!)<BR>Vedanta literarily means the end of = Knowledge,=20 and we are continuously<BR>studying Vedanta with the hope of reaching = the=20 end!<BR><BR><BR><BR>> After ISKCON invested so much of money on=20 infrastructure in the<BR>> past, the level of filth and pollution = increased=20 manifold. ISKCON<BR>> attracted tourists and the local people lured = by the=20 opportunity<BR>> established business catering to them. Wine, women = and meat=20 entered<BR>> the market. This trend will be accelerated by the new=20 temple<BR>> project, if this is the ultimate result of such hard work = of=20 ISKCON<BR>> devotees, do we need it? What other great purpose it is = going=20 to<BR>> serve? The land is already holy, how can new temples make it=20 holier?</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2></FONT><FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20 size=3D2></FONT><BR>Mataji Says,</DIV><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2></FONT><FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2></FONT> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><BR>> First we are asked to = believe that=20 the presence of ISKCON in the holy<BR>> dh=E4ma<BR>> was the cause = of "wine,=20 women, and meat" in M=E4y=E4pur. A more naive remark I<BR>> would be = hard-pressed=20 to find. Here we are being asked to believe an<BR>> unfounded = statement that=20 prior to ISKCON's creation, no such sinful<BR>> activity<BR>> = would have=20 possibly existed here. Even if it didn't at the time (something<BR>> = that is=20 almost inconceivable, but an allowance I'll make for the sake of<BR>> = argument), was the arrival of these elements only because of ISKCON, = or<BR>>=20 might it have had something to do with the influence of Kali-yuga? = In<BR>>=20 fact,<BR>> the point Solai makes is that ISKCON is to blame for the=20 advancement of<BR>> Kali-yuga: a statement that flies in the face of = the=20 entire mission and<BR>> purpose of Srila Prabhup=E4da.<BR><BR>I have = missed the=20 relative term- entered the market "in a big way"<BR>My contention is, = ISKCON is=20 promoting tourism and the consequent damage to<BR>the spiritual and=20 environmental sustainability of the Dham. It is simply urbanizing the=20 Dham.<BR>You have to study the environment from the point of pre and = post ISKCON=20 era.<BR>This will clearly indicate the contribution by ISKCON for the = damage to=20 the<BR>environment. I will forward the research paper submitted by the=20 eminent<BR>Prof. K.N. Mukerge Retired head of the Dept. of<BR>Geography, = City=20 College, Calcutta, retired lecturer of the Dept. of<BR>Geography, = University of=20 Calcutta, Secretary of ILEE and Director of the<BR>Research Cell of Sri = Caitanya=20 Research Institute, Calcutta, in this regard.<BR>We are accelerating and = inviting Kali to settle in the Dham by our fanatical<BR>desires against = the law=20 of the land with the excuse of fulfilling the desire<BR>of our founder=20 acharya.<BR>><BR>> What other great purpose it is going to serve? = The land=20 is already<BR>> holy, how can new temples make it = holier?<BR>><BR>>=20 Here it might serve some purpose to post so many quotes on "what = great<BR>>=20 purpose" this temple will serve, according to Srila Prabhup=E4da and = our<BR>>=20 previous acaryas, and according to scripture. These quotes might go a=20 long<BR>> way in helping to explain what this holy land exists for, = and why=20 Sri<BR>> Caitanya Mah=E4prabhu came here, and what He came to = establish. For=20 the sake<BR>> of brevity, I'll exclude these quotes, which I'm sure = most have=20 either<BR>> seen<BR>> before, or have access to via Folio or = publications=20 by Srila Prabhup=E4da<BR>> and<BR>> those who represent his = institution.=20 Suffice to say, Solai's speculation<BR>> that Srila Prabhup=E4da = might be=20 content to leave things as they are and be<BR>> satisfied that we are = the=20 most successful math on this road seem more than<BR>> just a little=20 far-fetched.<BR>><BR>I have the right to speculate because we are = pursuing a=20 minor(may be major<BR>to others!) priority of SP against the law of the = land. I=20 will go one step<BR>further to claim that our activities are illegal in = this=20 regard and as a<BR>citizen of India, I have the constitutional right to = defend=20 on the<BR>preservation of Mayapur from abuse by vested interests.<BR>I = wish to=20 point out, why Mataji has conveniently ignored on the Black = money<BR>transaction=20 and binami trusts of the land department and SMPDC = to mobilize<BR>funds for=20 the new temple? Do you want proof?<BR>> Ignorant of our = founder-acarya's=20 mission and purpose; content to ignore<BR>> the<BR>> teachings and = mission=20 of our disciplic succession; oblivious to the<BR>> reasons<BR>> = for the=20 descent of the Supreme Lord in this age---perhaps those who = labor<BR>> under=20 the burden of these afflictions should consider that their best<BR>>=20 avenue<BR>> might be silence. In that way, they might offend less and = learn=20 more. In<BR>> the<BR>> ensuing silence, an avenue of proper = approach may=20 reveal itself to them.<BR>> If<BR>> one's desire is to truly = better the=20 actions of the institution he is<BR>> addressing, they would do well = to=20 remember that criticism will turn an ear<BR>> deaf more swiftly than = they=20 realize.<BR>><BR>I fully agree on this view point, I also understand = silence=20 will pacify<BR>these emotional issues in my heart, One point still not = clear to=20 me is, how<BR>I am offending the Vaishnava's in my presentations? May be = I have=20 to<BR>substantiate and be humble with the logic, that I am lacking=20 spiritual Sadana </DIV> <DIV>and I do not have the locus standing to project this issue, as per = my=20 daughter Vaikuntha<BR>Lakshmi dd. </DIV> <DIV>I do not want to stop with criticism, I want to escalate it = to<BR>the court=20 of law if ISKCON gets the proposal approved by the state<BR>Government. = Also I=20 am inviting eminent environmentalists and media people to<BR>project it = to the=20 world community during the next festival in the year 2006.<BR>May be = ISKCON has=20 the might and clout to face it, but I am sure environmental </DIV> <DIV>issues are more dominant than the whims and fancies of devotees as = per the=20 existing<BR>environmental protection laws of India. I have also = consulted=20 eminent<BR>lawyers and environmentalists in this regard and their = opinion is=20 favorable<BR>to my views.<BR>> Our mission is not to restore the = forests and=20 bring back the tigers: one<BR>> who<BR>> pursues such noble ideals = would=20 be well advised to seek a zoological<BR>> society<BR>> whose = values they=20 can embrace. Until then, despite the obvious desire some<BR>> have to = see=20 M=E4y=E4pur maintain its status quo, the mission of Lord = Caitanya<BR>> and His=20 most beloved associates and followers will continue---with or<BR>> = without=20 us.<BR>><BR>Ok. But do you agree that our mission is, not to abuse = the=20 environment?<BR>I wish to live with nature and pursue KC. Simple living = and high=20 thinking, </DIV> <DIV>I will add sustainable livelihoods also!<BR>It may be a Zoological = Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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