Guest guest Posted November 16, 2005 Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 Srila Prabhupada said that there would be many ISKCON acharyas and the IRM people say that he is wrong, that ISKCON will only have one acharya. Just see the fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Sankarshan Prabhu Again, you misrepresent our position. ISKCON has one diksa guru. Having many acharyas (at some point in time) in the siksa sense of the word. --- "Sankarsana (das) ACBSP (Austin, Texas - USA)" <Sankarsana.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote: > Srila Prabhupada said that there would be many > ISKCON acharyas and the IRM people say that > he is wrong, that ISKCON will only have one > acharya. Just see the fun! > > > > ----------------------- > To from this mailing list, send an email > to: > Initiations.in.ISKCON-Owner (AT) pamho (DOT) net > Learn the truth about the ISKCON guru hoax ISKCON Revival Movement - http://www.iskconirm.com FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 NO. ISKCON HAS MANY SIKSA, DIKSA GURUS,AND ONE FOUND ACHARYA. YOU SAID THAT WE HAVE ACARYAS,AND SRILA PRABHUPADA SAID THAT YOU CANT JUMP OVER NEXT ACARYA WHICH ARE ISKCON GURUS. IM VERY HAPPY TO SEE IMPROVEMENT. Something from last letter Madhusudana dasa: To accept disciples is the main business of a diksa guru, whereas a siksa guru simply needs to carry on his duties and preach Krsna Consciousness as best he can. It is clear from Srila Prabhupada's purports that in the above verse Lord Caitanya is actually authorising siksa gurus, not diksa gurus. This is also made abundantly clear in the many other references where Srila Prabhupada encourages everyone to become guru: "yare dekha, tare kaha, krsna-upadesa. You haven't got to manufacture anything. What Krsna has already said, you repeat. Finish. Don't make addition, adulteration. Then you become guru [...] I may be fool, rascal [...] So we have to follow this path, that you become guru, deliver your neighbourhood men, associates, but speak the authoritative words of Krsna. Then it will act [...] Anyone can do. A child can do." (SP Evening darsan, 11/5/77, Hrsikesh) Let as see how Srila Prabhupada see same verse Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu therefore gives a definition of guru. Yare dekha, tare kaha 'krsna'-upadesa: [Cc. Madhya 7.128] the bona fide guru is he who advises his disciples exactly in accordance with the principles spoken by Krsna. So Srila Prabhupada said that guru is one who advises his disciples. According to your explenation above that means diksa guru,so Sri Krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu ,and Srila Prabhupada refers to diksa guru,and your explanation is that they refer to siksa. Do you see way we need guru parampara Guru Parampara ki jay! "The guru must come through the parampara system. Then he is bona fide. Hyderabad, August 19, 1976 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 > Sankarshan Prabhu > > Again, you misrepresent our position. > ISKCON has one diksa guru. > Having many acharyas (at some point in time) in the > siksa sense of the word. So if you want to understand Bhagavad-g…t€, then we must understand in the same way as the person who directly heard from. This is called parampar€ system. Suppose I have heard something from my spiritual master, so I speak to you the same thing. So this is parampar€ system. You cannot imagine what my spiritual master said. Or even if you read some books, you cannot understand unless you understand it from me. This is called parampar€ system. You cannot jump over to the superior guru, neglecting the next €c€rya, immediate next €c€rya. > "A person who is liberated acharya and guru cannot commit any mistake, but there are persons who are less qualified or not liberated, but still can act as guru and acharya by strictly following the disciplic succession." New York, 26 April, 1968 > --- "Sankarsana (das) ACBSP (Austin, Texas - USA)" > <Sankarsana.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote: > > > Srila Prabhupada said that there would be many > > ISKCON acharyas and the IRM people say that > > he is wrong, that ISKCON will only have one > > acharya. Just see the fun! > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Dear Tripada Prabhu, PAMHO. AGTSP! > You cannot jump over to the superior guru, neglecting the next €c€rya, > immediate next €c€rya. I have noticed that the IRM people are those who most strictly follow this rule: They don't jump over their siksa-guru Krishnakant to Srila Prabhupada. ys Ramakanta dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 "On the whole, you may know that he is not a liberated person, and therefore, he cannot initiate any person to Krsna Consciousness." (SP Letter to Janardana, 26/4/68) Maha-bhagavata-srestho brahmano vai gurur nrnam sarvesam eva lokanam asau pujyo yatha harih maha-kula-prasuto' pi sarva-yajnesu diksitah sahasra-sakhadhya yi ca na guruh syad avaisnavah "The guru must be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru must be accepted from the topmost class." (C.c. Madhya, 24.330, purport) "When one has attained the topmost position of maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshipped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. Only such a person is eligible to occupy the post of a guru." (C.c. Madhya, 24.330, purport) --- "Tripada (das) (Split - HR)" <Tripada (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote: > > Sankarshan Prabhu > > > > Again, you misrepresent our position. > > ISKCON has one diksa guru. > > Having many acharyas (at some point in time) in > the > > siksa sense of the word. > So if you want to understand Bhagavad-gita, then we > must understand in the > same way as the person who directly heard from. This > is called parampara > system. Suppose I have heard something from my > spiritual master, so I speak > to you the same thing. So this is parampara system. > You cannot imagine what > my spiritual master said. Or even if you read some > books, you cannot > understand unless you understand it from me. This is > called parampara > system. You cannot jump over to the superior guru, > neglecting the next > acarya, immediate next acarya. > > > > "A person who is liberated acharya and > guru > cannot commit any mistake, but there > are persons > who are less qualified or not > liberated, but > still can act as guru and acharya by > strictly > following the disciplic succession." > > New York, 26 April, 1968 > > > > > --- "Sankarsana (das) ACBSP (Austin, Texas - USA)" > > <Sankarsana.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote: > > > > > Srila Prabhupada said that there would be many > > > ISKCON acharyas and the IRM people say that > > > he is wrong, that ISKCON will only have one > > > acharya. Just see the fun! > > > > > > > Learn the truth about the ISKCON guru hoax ISKCON Revival Movement - http://www.iskconirm.com FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 "A person who is liberated acharya and guru cannot commit any mistake, but there are persons who are less qualified or not liberated, but still can act as guru and acharya by strictly following the disciplic succession." New York, 26 April, 1968 > "On the whole, you may know that he is not a liberated > person, and therefore, he cannot initiate any person > to Krsna Consciousness." > (SP Letter to Janardana, 26/4/68) > > > Maha-bhagavata-srestho brahmano vai gurur nrnam > sarvesam eva lokanam asau pujyo yatha harih > maha-kula-prasuto' pi sarva-yajnesu diksitah > sahasra-sakhadhya yi ca na guruh syad avaisnavah > > "The guru must be situated on the topmost platform of > devotional service. There are three classes of > devotees, and the guru must be accepted from the > topmost class." (C.c. Madhya, 24.330, purport) > > "When one has attained the topmost position of > maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and > worshipped exactly like Hari, the Personality of > Godhead. Only such a person is eligible to occupy the > post of a guru." > (C.c. Madhya, 24.330, purport) > > > > > --- "Tripada (das) (Split - HR)" <Tripada (AT) pamho (DOT) net> > wrote: > > > > Sankarshan Prabhu > > > > > > Again, you misrepresent our position. > > > ISKCON has one diksa guru. > > > Having many acharyas (at some point in time) in > > the > > > siksa sense of the word. > > So if you want to understand Bhagavad-gita, then we > > must understand in the > > same way as the person who directly heard from. This > > is called parampara > > system. Suppose I have heard something from my > > spiritual master, so I speak > > to you the same thing. So this is parampara system. > > You cannot imagine what > > my spiritual master said. Or even if you read some > > books, you cannot > > understand unless you understand it from me. This is > > called parampara > > system. You cannot jump over to the superior guru, > > neglecting the next > > acarya, immediate next acarya. > > > > > > > "A person who is liberated acharya and > > guru > > cannot commit any mistake, but there > > are persons > > who are less qualified or not > > liberated, but > > still can act as guru and acharya by > > strictly > > following the disciplic succession." > > > > New York, 26 April, 1968 > > > > > > > > > --- "Sankarsana (das) ACBSP (Austin, Texas - USA)" > > > <Sankarsana.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote: > > > > > > > Srila Prabhupada said that there would be many > > > > ISKCON acharyas and the IRM people say that > > > > he is wrong, that ISKCON will only have one > > > > acharya. Just see the fun! > > > > > > > > > > > > > Learn the truth about the ISKCON guru hoax > ISKCON Revival Movement - http://www.iskconirm.com > > > > > FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. > http://farechase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 > "On the whole, you may know that he is not a liberated > person, and therefore, he cannot initiate any person > to Krsna Consciousness." > (SP Letter to Janardana, 26/4/68) > > > Maha-bhagavata-srestho brahmano vai gurur nrnam > sarvesam eva lokanam asau pujyo yatha harih > maha-kula-prasuto' pi sarva-yajnesu diksitah > sahasra-sakhadhya yi ca na guruh syad avaisnavah > > "The guru must be situated on the topmost platform of > devotional service. There are three classes of > devotees, and the guru must be accepted from the > topmost class." (C.c. Madhya, 24.330, purport) > > "When one has attained the topmost position of > maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and > worshipped exactly like Hari, the Personality of > Godhead. Only such a person is eligible to occupy the > post of a guru." > (C.c. Madhya, 24.330, purport) > > > > > --- "Tripada (das) (Split - HR)" <Tripada (AT) pamho (DOT) net> > wrote: > > > > Sankarshan Prabhu > > > > > > Again, you misrepresent our position. > > > ISKCON has one diksa guru. > > > Having many acharyas (at some point in time) in > > the > > > siksa sense of the word. > > So if you want to understand Bhagavad-gita, then we > > must understand in the > > same way as the person who directly heard from. This > > is called parampara > > system. Suppose I have heard something from my > > spiritual master, so I speak > > to you the same thing. So this is parampara system. > > You cannot imagine what > > my spiritual master said. Or even if you read some > > books, you cannot > > understand unless you understand it from me. This is > > called parampara > > system. You cannot jump over to the superior guru, > > neglecting the next > > acarya, immediate next acarya. > > > > > > > "A person who is liberated acharya and > > guru > > cannot commit any mistake, but there > > are persons > > who are less qualified or not > > liberated, but > > still can act as guru and acharya by > > strictly > > following the disciplic succession." > > > > New York, 26 April, 1968 As far as the time of d…k€ (initiation) is concerned, everything depends on the position of the guru. As soon as a bona fide guru is received by chance or by a program, one should immediately take the opportunity to receive initiation. In the book called Tattva-s€gara, it is stated:..."If by chance, one gets a sad-guru, it doesn't matter whether one is in the temple or the forest. If the sad-guru, the bona fide spiritual master, agrees, one can be initiated immediately, without waiting for a suitable time or place." cc So if some of devotees got problems to find pure devotee as guru ,I cant help much.That is mercy of Lord,and what one Acharya said:we have to cry to recive Pure soul as spiritual master,and when You see him you should take diksa on the spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 > So if some of devotees got problems to find pure > devotee as guru ,I cant > help much.That is mercy of Lord,and what one Acharya > said:we have to cry to > recive Pure soul as spiritual master,and when You > see him This is just so much nonsense. "But for all devotional service, the main pillar is sravanam, hearing. Without hearing, other processes of devotional service will not be perfect. Therefore hearing is most important. Hearing, according to our Vaisnava philosophy, especially Lord Caitanya’s, this hearing and chanting are two main pillars for devotional service." (Bhagavad-gita 3.18-30 --Los Angeles, December 30, 1968) >you should take > diksa on the spot. > >From Srila Prabhupada's definitions of diksa and initiation given below, we shall prove conclusively that diksa is a process involving the continuous transmission of knowledge. This process begins with initiation, which itself is not defined as a ceremony, but as the serious determination on the part of the prospective disciple to begin following the orders of the Guru. This beginning, which is normally accompanied by a ceremony, is usually mistaken for being the sum and substance of diksa. Hence, since diksa does not depend on, or is fulfilled, by a one-time event such as a ceremony, there cannot be any link between diksa and the physical presence of the Guru. Otherwise the process of diksa would have had to stop for all of Srila Prabhupada's disciples in 1977 after Srila Prabhupada departed from the material world: Diksa given by transmitter of transcendental knowledge "In other words, the spiritual master awakens the sleeping living entity to his original consciousness so that he can worship Lord Visnu. This is the purpose of diksa, or initiation. Initiation means receiving the pure knowledge of spiritual consciousness." (Sri Caitanya caritamrta, Madhya-lila, 9.61, purport, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada) "Diksa actually means initiating a disciple with transcendental knowledge by which he becomes freed from all material contamination." (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila, 4.111, purport, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada) "Diksa is the process by which -one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures knows this process as diksa." (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila, 15.108, purport, A.C. Bhaktivedanta SwamiPrabhupada) Initiation is the beginning of following the process of Krishna Consciousness - It is not a ceremony "So anyway, from 1922 to 1933 practically I was not initiated, but I got the impression of preaching Caitanya Mahaprabhu's cult. That I was thinking. And that was the initiation by my Guru Maharaja." (Srila Prabhupada Lecture, Hyderabad, 10/12/76) "Initiation is a formality. First of all you have to decide whether you will abide by the rules and regulations and become Krsna conscious. That is your consideration. You have to decide for yourself whether you are going to take this Krsna consciousness seriously. That is your decision. Initiation is a formality. If you are serious, that is real initiation. If you have understood this Krsna philosophy and if you have decided that you will take Krsna consciousness seriously and preach the philosophy to others, that is your initiation. My touch is simply a formality. It is your determination. That is initiation." (Srila Prabhupada Conversation, 'The Search for the Divine', Back to Godhead, # 49) "...disciplic succession does not always mean that one has to be initiated oficially. Disciplic succession means to accept the disciplic conclusion." (Srila Prabhupada Letter to Dinesh, 31/10/69) "The chanting of Hare Krsna is - our main business, that is real initiation. And as you are all following my instruction in that matter, the initiator is already there." (Srila Prabhupada Letter to Tamala Krsna, 19/8/68) "Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge... knowledge. Initiation is formality. Just like you go to a school for knowledge, and admission is formality. That is not very important thing." (Srila Prabhupada Interview, Chandigarh, 16/10/76) So unless every disciple of Srila Prabhupada completed the process of diksa in Srila Prabhupada's presence, and stopped receiving the "pure knowledge of Krishna consciousness", and "vanquished all reactions caused by sinful activity" before Srila Prabhupada's departure, the process of diksa continued post-Srila Prabhupada's departure. Hence, since the process of diksa continues in the absence of the spiritual master, there is nothing in its definition preventing other, newer devotees from following this same process. Since the definition of diksa does not mention that the process has to have commenced during Srila Prabhupada's physical presence in order for it to continue working post-physical departure, the physical absence of the spiritual master cannot be a reason to deny diksa to newer devotees. Of course, the Guru must first accept the prospective disciple, but in the ritvik system set out in the July 9th directive this acceptance was done by the ritvik on Srila Prabhupada's behalf without any consultation, even in his physical presence, since the ritvik system operated for over 4 months before his physical departure. This is confirmed in a conversation held just before the July 9th directive was issued, wherein Srila Prabhupada gives the ritviks full power of attorney to accept disciples on his behalf without any referral to himself: Srila Prabhupada: So without waiting for me, whoever you consider deserves. That will depend on discretion. Tamala Krishna Goswami: On discretion. Srila Prabhupada: Yes Tamala Krishna Goswami: That's the first and second initiations. Srila Prabhupada: Hmm! (Conversation on appointment of ritviks, Vrindavana, July 7th, 1977) Therefore Srila Prabhupada continues acting as diksa Guru of ISKCON for ALL devotees, pre and post his departure. This is confirmed by the fact that Srila Prabhupada set up the ritvik system via the July 9th directive to facilitate this giving of diksa to all persons who would join ISKCON in the future a directive whose operation did not require the physical presence of Srila Prabhupada, but instead specifically employed the use of ritviks to accept disciples on his behalf without consultation with Srila Prabhupada. Learn the truth about the ISKCON guru hoax ISKCON Revival Movement - http://www.iskconirm.com Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2005 Report Share Posted November 27, 2005 > What is? permmition to have disciples > > > --- "Tripada (das) (Split - HR)" <Tripada (AT) pamho (DOT) net> > wrote: > > > It is coming from Krishna,guru parampara,and srila > > prabhupada. > > > > > Learn the truth about the ritvik hoax from ISKCON > > Music Unlimited > Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. > http://music./unlimited/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2005 Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 `Myself and the other GBC have done the greatest disservice to this movement the last three years because we interpreted the appointment of ritviks as the appointment of gurus'. [TKG 1980] --- "Tripada (das) (Split - HR)" <Tripada (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote: > > > > > So if some of devotees got problems to find pure > > > devotee as guru ,I cant > > > help much.That is mercy of Lord,and what one > Acharya > > > said:we have to cry to > > > recive Pure soul as spiritual master,and when > You > > > see him > > > > > > This is just so much nonsense. > > > > "But for all devotional service, the main pillar > is > > sravanam, hearing. Without hearing, other > processes of > > devotional service will not be perfect. Therefore > > hearing is most important. Hearing, according to > our > > Vaisnava philosophy, especially Lord Caitanya’s, > this > > hearing and chanting are two main pillars for > > devotional service." > > (Bhagavad-gita 3.18-30 --Los Angeles, December 30, > > 1968) > > > > > > >you should take > > > diksa on the spot. > > > > > > > > > > > From Srila Prabhupada's definitions of diksa and > > initiation given below, we shall prove > conclusively > > that diksa is a process involving the continuous > > transmission of knowledge. This process begins > with > > initiation, which itself is not defined as a > ceremony, > > but as the serious determination on the part of > the > > prospective disciple to begin following the orders > of > > the Guru. This beginning, which is normally > > accompanied by a ceremony, is usually mistaken for > > being the sum and substance of diksa. > > Hence, since diksa does not depend on, or is > > fulfilled, by a one-time event such as a ceremony, > > there cannot be any link between diksa and the > > physical presence of the Guru. Otherwise the > process > > of diksa would have had to stop for all of Srila > > Prabhupada's disciples in 1977 after Srila > Prabhupada > > departed from the material world: > > > > Diksa given by transmitter of transcendental > knowledge > > > > "In other words, the spiritual master awakens the > > sleeping living entity to his original > consciousness > > so that he can worship Lord Visnu. This is the > > purpose of diksa, or initiation. Initiation means > > receiving the pure knowledge of spiritual > > consciousness." > > (Sri Caitanya caritamrta, Madhya-lila, 9.61, > purport, > > A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada) > > > > "Diksa actually means initiating a disciple with > > transcendental knowledge by which he becomes freed > > from all material contamination." > > (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila, 4.111, > purport, > > A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada) > > > > "Diksa is the process by which -one can awaken his > > transcendental knowledge and vanquish all > reactions > > caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the > > study of the revealed scriptures knows this > process as > > diksa." > > (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila, 15.108, > > purport, A.C. Bhaktivedanta SwamiPrabhupada) > > > > Initiation is the beginning of following the > process > > of Krishna Consciousness - It is not a ceremony > > > > "So anyway, from 1922 to 1933 practically I was > not > > initiated, but I got the impression of preaching > > Caitanya Mahaprabhu's cult. That I was thinking. > And > > that was the initiation by my Guru Maharaja." > > (Srila Prabhupada Lecture, Hyderabad, 10/12/76) > > > > "Initiation is a formality. First of all you have > to > > decide whether you will abide by the rules and > > regulations and become Krsna conscious. That is > your > > consideration. You have to decide for yourself > > whether you are going to take this Krsna > consciousness > > seriously. That is your decision. Initiation is a > > formality. If you are serious, that is real > > initiation. If you have understood this Krsna > > philosophy and if you have decided that you will > take > > Krsna consciousness seriously and preach the > > philosophy to others, that is your initiation. My > > touch is simply a formality. It is your > > determination. That is initiation." > > (Srila Prabhupada Conversation, 'The Search for > the > > Divine', Back to Godhead, # 49) > > > > "...disciplic succession does not always mean that > one > > has to be initiated oficially. Disciplic > succession > > means to accept the disciplic conclusion." > > (Srila Prabhupada Letter to Dinesh, 31/10/69) > > > > "The chanting of Hare Krsna is - our main > business, > > that is real initiation. And as you are all > following > > my instruction in that matter, the initiator is > > already there." > > (Srila Prabhupada Letter to Tamala Krsna, 19/8/68) > > > > "Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is > > knowledge... knowledge. Initiation is formality. > > Just like you go to a school for knowledge, and > > admission is formality. That is not very > important > > thing." > > (Srila Prabhupada Interview, Chandigarh, 16/10/76) > > > > So unless every disciple of Srila Prabhupada > completed > > the process of diksa in Srila Prabhupada's > presence, > > and stopped receiving the "pure knowledge of > Krishna > > consciousness", and "vanquished all reactions > caused > > by sinful activity" before Srila Prabhupada's > > departure, the process of diksa continued > post-Srila > > Prabhupada's departure. > > Hence, since the process of diksa continues in the > > absence of the spiritual master, there is nothing > in > > its definition preventing other, newer devotees > from > > following this same process. Since the definition > of > > diksa does not mention that the process has to > have > > commenced during Srila Prabhupada's physical > presence > > in order for it to continue working post-physical > > departure, the physical absence of the spiritual > > master cannot be a reason to deny diksa to newer > > devotees. > > > > Of course, the Guru must first accept the > prospective > > disciple, but in the ritvik system set out in the > July > > 9th directive this acceptance was done by the > ritvik > > on Srila Prabhupada's behalf without any > consultation, > > even in his physical presence, since the ritvik > system > > operated for over 4 months before his physical > > departure. This is confirmed in a conversation > held > > just before the July 9th directive was issued, > wherein > > Srila Prabhupada gives the ritviks full power of > > attorney to accept disciples on his behalf without > any > > referral to himself: > > > > > > Srila Prabhupada: So without waiting for me, > whoever > > you consider deserves. That will depend on > > discretion. > > Tamala Krishna Goswami: On discretion. > > Srila Prabhupada: Yes > === message truncated === Learn the truth about the ISKCON guru hoax ISKCON Revival Movement - http://www.iskconirm.com Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music./unlimited/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2005 Report Share Posted November 30, 2005 > `Myself and the other GBC have done the greatest > disservice to this movement the last three years > because we interpreted the appointment of ritviks as > the appointment of gurus'. > [TKG 1980] You must be very desparate to have to resort to this kind of selective quoting. TKG hated the ritviks with a vengeance.... and with good reason. Just see the fun. The only way they can prove their case is by right out lying and selective quoting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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